Impressions on driving after 1.3

[Matheus Machado]

AC just gone wrong with what made it stand out in the crowd: FFB.
All the details are gone, now it just feels like a slightly improvement on GSCE ffb.
Also, they mentioned the new tire model would cause LESS understeer on GT cars. Well, at least for me it works, until the car hits 100 kph where at some point it just magically starts to go straight, without a single tip or notice that it's going to happen.
At least to me, it is a huge stepback from what they have done so far.

PS: I would like to know if anyone is able to match GT2 pace around spa, where in WEC qualy this year, drivers were putting high 2:16s to low 2:17s

 

[St3fan]

Say the wheel settings you're using in controls menu and in wheel software. If you are using something adapted to certain games, might not be suitable for ac.

For some reason I find it entertaining to see you saying almost the same thing to the same him asking for wheel settings and control settings here as on AC forum

 

[Matheus Machado]

Are there any soft locks at all? Did I miss something?

Enable it in System/cfg/Assetto corsa.ini
Change soft lock from 0 to 1

 

[Radu Oros]

For some reason I find it entertaining to see you saying almost the same thing to the same him asking for wheel settings and control settings here as on AC forum

Is because I think he's still not using the proper settings for his wheel, and then talks about steering ratios, which is something you don't need in AC since everything is done automatically for all cars, depending on the steering degrees you select under the steering axis. And that value has to match the steering degrees from the wheel software.

 

[St3fan]

Is because I think he's still not using the proper settings for his wheel, and then talks about steering ratios, which is something you don't need in AC since everything is done automatically for all cars, depending on the steering degrees you select under the steering axis. And that value has to match the steering degrees from the wheel software.

I know!
While he keeps saying how he wants steering ratio, at the same time, GSC players are eagerly waiting for AC-style automatic steering settings

 

[Stereo]

GSC players are eagerly waiting for AC-style automatic steering settings

As far as I know its most recent update added that.

 

[Ghoults]

I have to partially disagree. You are right about the data (even tire manufacturers know now a lot more about tires than they did just 10 years ago, thanks to advances in super computing) but the actual simulation plays a huge role too. If you are missing proper dynamic simulation of a tire and all of it's components (this includes the way asphalt kind of "rips" the tire and gives it instant "tack" or whatever you wanna call it) you will not be able to duplicate the experience with a purely data driven Pacejka tire model.. and the differences are not subtle at all.

There is a similar thing that can be compared in the music technology industry. Sampling vs physical modeling. Up to a point sampling will be more natural sounding to most people.. that is until you get into "weird" over the top territory (analogous to going over the limit of a tire). At this point sampling breaks down and can not properly duplicate the instrument and thus will sound very unnatural. You need a mathematical model, a simulation of the actual physics of the instrument, to get into believable territory.

It is not rocket science. It all comes down to really basic stuff. How much grip tire has at higher slip angles. That's nothing revolutionary no matter how much you want to spin it. It had nothing to do with the sim engine. Every sim engine ever since the first playstation has some kind of model for slip angle vs grip. Or car yaw vs lateral grip. It is not some new revolutionary thing only new sims are implementing...

The fact is almost everybody got it wrong by assuming that tires lose a lot more grip at high slip angles than they do. Nowadays all sims seem to get that right. It has 0% to do with improved physics engine. I can make a tire in every sim I want that is too easy to spin at low speeds. Physics engines no matter whoever made it has some kind of data input where you put tire data. Just put in data that has the tire grip to drop too much at high slip angles and you are done. Doesn't matter if that data is a lookup table, some variables or something else.

We have had physics engines from 1999 which can model grip at high slip angles reasonably well if proper data is used. The reason those games mostly suffered from icy spins was bad data. Rf1 is the best example there can be. When it was released it was nothing but continuation of gtr and gtr2. Tires lose too much grip at high slip angles. But suddenly when you use proper tire data the problem went away. I used to be one of the guys who thought the rf1 engine was shite because grip issues at high slip angles. It wasn't pacejka problem. It was not enough cpu. It was not enough complexity in the code. It was not the million things that were not calculated by the physics engine. It was bad data. The problem goes away with good data.

I know!
While he keeps saying how he wants steering ratio, at the same time, GSC players are eagerly waiting for AC-style automatic steering settings

Well adjustable steer ratio is important. Changing steering locks is nothing unusual in race cars and can be done technically on any roadcar as well.

Some people seem to have this crazy idea that when you drive a race car you are not driving it realistically if you change the steer lock. Is changing the lock in senna's mclaren wrong? Is it wrong to change the steer lock in the indy car that was driven my mario andretti? Using different steer ratio than earnhard, vettel, schumacher or whoever? The thing is if schumacher had an issue with the steering lock in his f1 ferraris did his team tell him to just drive? "That's the way the car is"? No. They would have changed the lock to whatever schumacher/andretti etc wanted.

In the real world the driver had a choise. The driver chose something for himself that he liked. It is not some realistic lock that everyone must use to drive that car realistically... It is kinda strange how some people treat the developer chosen steering locks in the sims as some holy grail of realisticness correctness. It is just a number the driver liked and was chosen over some other numbers.

Some series do have rules which prevent changing the steering locks. But all high end race cars do offer the choises if drivers want them.

 

[Msportdan]

I know!
While he keeps saying how he wants steering ratio, at the same time, GSC players are eagerly waiting for AC-style automatic steering settings

its not so much the lock- i can live with that, but the ratio on some of the cars is ridiculously high!. for instance i think the GTC is 540 deg with 40odd deg ratio it feels that bad!

anyway i can see most of you dont understand the difference between the two....

and if it was my wheel then the bMw would feel crap too wouldnt it..

 

[Wok Chung]

Don´t like me 1.3.1v
The graphics have less quality. Yes, more FPS but poor quality (look like a retro filter or whitish filter?) The sky is not blue sky, and for example in morning and sunset disappeared the reddish and violets tones. Whatever, is not the worst.

About physics, I haven't tested all cars, but for example, my favorite car Nissan GTR GT3 in 1.3.1v sucks. Look like a Project Cars car or similar simcade car. Before 1.3.1 v the feeling was amazing, you could feel the power of the car, the force feedback was great, but now it´s drive a street car, is very meek and easy, it do not transfers any exciting sensation. Is not funny to drive anymore.

Whatever, is not the end of the world, I have the fix. The 1.2.5 v still exists. In fact I reinstalled 1.2.5v in another folder of my system. So, now I have two Assetto Corsa versions.
I will use 1.2.5v offline to fun and pleasure to drive, and maybe 1.3.1v for multiplayer, if I find some realistic and funny car... Otherwise I will compete in iRacing or GSCE.

I don't understand why Kunos destroys what's right.

 

[Cristian Haba]

UPDATE

A bit more testing on Monza and it seems the new tire model has affected the old cars. For now extracting pace from the old GT cars will be a new learning experience. IMHO the setups need to be redone as tires losing and gaining temperature is way different now and it affects performance greatly.

The cars tested were the GTR GT3 and the SLS GT3.

GTR

First impressions were good out of the box with my old setup, however the car just didnt feel, and as well look on screen, as fast as I used to feel it. This was most noticeable in the second chicane at Monza. Pre 1.3 I used to barely get the car to a stop in time and have to hustle it over the first curb and just clip the second, that being ideal. Now it seemed as if I was "granny shifting and not double clutching like I should". Further, observing my set speed traps (when you race for a long time you kind of memorize the speeds you should be reaching and certain points of the track) the car on the main straight was only reaching 272kph with my old setup and the norm before was 278-280kph without worry. I chalked this up to the new tires, and real time varying temperatures, it's just one of the explanations the other being the car having even more sensitivity to setup changed, namely pitch, rake angle?, and downforce to name a few.

I started with default setup. Changed my usual setting to give the car a more aggressive stance camber wise, left the suspension geometry unchaged, but the general rule was to soften the car to get more mechanical grip so that I could sacrifice aero. The setup result is below, and I'll update it in the setup section of the forum as well.

Right off I could see the difference but it was small. Speed went up but I didnt feel it was Godzilla levels like before, but good enough. With the new tires, you can really lean in on them a lot more, traction is there but finding it on the limit is a challenge. Doing a hot lap now is more consistent but in ways its harder to extract the performance, maybe not so much from the new cars but definitely from the old ones. Maybe due to the fact that I'm used to driving a certain way to do that, and having to relearn the process now, a welcome challenge. I got the car back into the 1:48s which was the norm in qually trim, perhaps lower, always had pace for 47s but peicing it together was the hard part. Work in progress still, only a handful of laps on the new tires.

SLS

The sls's old setup didnt yield the same speeds in gear as it did before, so gear changes had to be done off the bat as I was topping out where that was no possible before. Again slower on the straight, and the SLS was a heavy hitter there too, not as much as the GTR but def second in that regard. The car seemed to have more understeer and that falls in line with the new tire model. Before we had a more consistent, and honestly a bit unrealistic, temperature in the tires where now we have drops in temp in real time which rightly affects turning ability.

I havent had the chance to get a set together for the SLS but it's next on the chopping block. Again starting from what Kunos provided as stock and going from there.

I'd like some of the season drivers here to chime in on their feelings, those that have already great. Keep testing and get some numbers out. We can gather data more quickly and get a proper performance adjustment for our Clubs and whatever else the future has in store ;P

 

[Msportdan]

a) has AC got good drift physics?

b) what if this conveyed into their normal physics, making cars easier to catch drift and slide?

 

[Blaž Mrak]

a) has AC got good drift physics?

b) what if this conveyed into their normal physics, making cars easier to catch drift and slide?

There is no such thing as drift physics... Only the Shift franchise did that. This is why in AC you can drive street cars fast or sideways, depending on how you use weight transfer and power.

 

[Borbor]

UPDATE

A bit more testing on Monza and it seems the new tire model has affected the old cars. For now extracting pace from the old GT cars will be a new learning experience. IMHO the setups need to be redone as tires losing and gaining temperature is way different now and it affects performance greatly.

The cars tested were the GTR GT3 and the SLS GT3.

GTR

First impressions were good out of the box with my old setup, however the car just didnt feel, and as well look on screen, as fast as I used to feel it. This was most noticeable in the second chicane at Monza. Pre 1.3 I used to barely get the car to a stop in time and have to hustle it over the first curb and just clip the second, that being ideal. Now it seemed as if I was "granny shifting and not double clutching like I should". Further, observing my set speed traps (when you race for a long time you kind of memorize the speeds you should be reaching and certain points of the track) the car on the main straight was only reaching 272kph with my old setup and the norm before was 278-280kph without worry. I chalked this up to the new tires, and real time varying temperatures, it's just one of the explanations the other being the car having even more sensitivity to setup changed, namely pitch, rake angle?, and downforce to name a few.

read what i wrote here for the aero changes:

Rear wing after update ?

 

[Cristian Haba]

So much win @Blaž Mrak

 

[Cristian Haba]

@Borbor so they've changed the LD values, I wonder why. But having less downforce would equate to higher straight line speeds, which is not the case even with wings at 0 value for cars like the gtr.

 

[Matheus Machado]

More testing with 458 at spa:

I'm into the 2:18 half now. Supersofts are usable again as provide consistent grip throughout the corners. Lost about 5Kph of top speed. Middle and exit of corners are faster due to more traction. Pretty much the same as Cristian described for the GTR. But still a long way to go until I can go back to the 2:16s

Also I found higher pressure values seem to get a more consistent behavior out of the tires. Used to run 21 psi in GTR mediums and 458 softs. Now I'm using 28 psi on those situations, suspension app gives a smooth tire temp throughout the rubber band with more pressure applied.

Getting used to the new driving overall. Certainly it's more challenging and looks to be more authentic, specially at non extreme situations, proving the new tire model is a good step looking into the future.
For sure adds some elements to endurance, now we just need a limit on tire sets we can use in a race, to force double stints for long races, giving a purpose to the hards and superhards.

I think the top speed is related to the correction they made to splitters. Maybe their movement is causing some differences in the coefficient of drag, causing noticeable differences when dealing with huge amounts of speed, consequently, air.

 

[Borbor]

@Borbor so they've changed the LD values, I wonder why. But having less downforce would equate to higher straight line speeds, which is not the case even with wings at 0 value for cars like the gtr.

Less Df doesn't mean higher straight line speeds. Less drag does.
The aero is less efficient for sure; because the prev version was just ridiculous (3.5-3.7 in real life you're getting into some high level single seater category). I don't know if they did anything to the engine look up table in terms of power, but I wouldn't be surprised if they did.

@Matheus Machado absolutely agree with the tire pressures.

 

[Arkadiusz Wawrzyniak]

I have tried only zr gt3 after update so far. Hard to say something very specific since the setups changed completly, but I noticed that tires are more graby at lower speeds. I have less feeling from ffb I guess so I have to dial it from previous setup. Breaking distance is shorter also (it comes down to low speed grip I guess). Also the car felt heavier on high speed corners if there is such thing on zandvoort.

 

[Tomas Torasen]

Anyone have a clear explanation of what the added understeering effect in FFB settings is? I activated it but cant say I clearly notice what the difference would be.

 

[Arne Dopudja]

Anyone have a clear explanation of what the added understeering effect in FFB settings is? I activated it but cant say I clearly notice what the difference would be.

Try it on BMW 235i racing, find a corner like parabolica, start turning in and keep turning the wheel more and more into the corner untill it suddenly becomes extra loose. That means understeer and front tires list grip. With the option enabled i think the softening is much more radical which i like. I like informative ffb like in Race07.

 

[Arkadiusz Wawrzyniak]

I tried some more cars and adjusted ffb. New tire model is amazing. Cars are not floating on corners anymore. Definately huge improovement