I'm shocked about AI
- Thread starter barty
- Start date
Collision avoidance, I completely agree, it's what the AI needs.
And as to no extra performance boost this is from an AI car file in AC, Nissan Mismo can anyone interpret this?
[HEADER]
VERSION=3
[GEARS]
UP=6600
DOWN=4500
SLIP_THRESHOLD=0.95
GAS_CUTOFF_TIME=0.190
[PEDALS]
GASGAIN=4.0
BRAKE_HINT=0.9
TRAIL_HINT=0.51
[LOOKAHEAD]
BASE=18.3
SPEED_GAIN=0.16
GAS_BRAKE_LOOKAHEAD=10
[STEER]
STEER_GAIN=1.56
[DRAG]
SLIP_RATIO_LIMIT=10
[ULTRA_GRIP] VALUE=1.2
[PHYSICS_HINTS] AERO_HINT=1
This is my last post about the AI as I don't want to upset people about this, make of it what you will, thanks.
Last edited:
[GEARS]
UP -> rpm the AI shifts up at
DOWN -> rpm the AI shifts down at
SLIP_THRESHOLD -> how well AI rev matches
GAS_CUTOFF_TIME -> how long ai lifts throttle on upshifts
[PEDALS]
GASGAIN -> how the AI pushes the throttle pedal vs. in other cars (since they have different engine maps, torque curves, etc)
BRAKE_HINT -> how the AI pushes the brake pedal in this car (0.9 = 90% of the recorded line's suggested braking)
TRAIL_HINT -> trail braking, same thing
[LOOKAHEAD]
BASE -> how far in front of the car the AI looks at the recorded line to know what to do
SPEED_GAIN -> how much it increases the distance according to speed (needs to look farther ahead to be ready for corners at higher speeds)
GAS_BRAKE_LOOKAHEAD -> not sure if this is added to the base. Tells the AI ~how far it needs to be ready to brake/throttle.
[STEER]
STEER_GAIN -> how hard the AI needs to turn the wheel to make corners (depends on ideal slip ratios, the way the car handles oversteer/understeer, etc.)
[DRAG]
SLIP_RATIO_LIMIT -> the AI won't brake or throttle to a higher slip ratio than this
[ULTRA_GRIP]
VALUE -> how much lateral grip the AI is simulated with in braking zones. This helps AIs brake closer to the limit
[PHYSICS_HINTS]
AERO_HINT -> how much aero grip the car gains with speed, so the AI can calculate high speed cornering speeds more accurately without having to know everything about its aero loads.
UP -> rpm the AI shifts up at
DOWN -> rpm the AI shifts down at
SLIP_THRESHOLD -> how well AI rev matches
GAS_CUTOFF_TIME -> how long ai lifts throttle on upshifts
[PEDALS]
GASGAIN -> how the AI pushes the throttle pedal vs. in other cars (since they have different engine maps, torque curves, etc)
BRAKE_HINT -> how the AI pushes the brake pedal in this car (0.9 = 90% of the recorded line's suggested braking)
TRAIL_HINT -> trail braking, same thing
[LOOKAHEAD]
BASE -> how far in front of the car the AI looks at the recorded line to know what to do
SPEED_GAIN -> how much it increases the distance according to speed (needs to look farther ahead to be ready for corners at higher speeds)
GAS_BRAKE_LOOKAHEAD -> not sure if this is added to the base. Tells the AI ~how far it needs to be ready to brake/throttle.
[STEER]
STEER_GAIN -> how hard the AI needs to turn the wheel to make corners (depends on ideal slip ratios, the way the car handles oversteer/understeer, etc.)
[DRAG]
SLIP_RATIO_LIMIT -> the AI won't brake or throttle to a higher slip ratio than this
[ULTRA_GRIP]
VALUE -> how much lateral grip the AI is simulated with in braking zones. This helps AIs brake closer to the limit
[PHYSICS_HINTS]
AERO_HINT -> how much aero grip the car gains with speed, so the AI can calculate high speed cornering speeds more accurately without having to know everything about its aero loads.
I've spent my free time this week running the Nurburgring, as I suck at it and really want to learn it. I've been using the AI to help me with braking points and turn in and just the track layout in general. Switching between A/C and PCARS in various cars, I can say that both sims handle different turns differently. In some corners, the AI is super fast and it takes all I can do to keep up and in others, they damn near come to a complete stop. Both sims seem to brake check for no apparent reason to me but A/C seems to have less chaotic AI. In PCARS, the AI will spin out, smash into barriers, then come back on track fish tailing trying to regain control.
But not once this week have I been punted off track. Nor have I felt I was a part of a choo choo train. If anything, I've had to restart because of running into the back of them. My best races come from doing my best to treat the AI like real people...giving them room and anticipating brake zones and errors. I'm glad that I'm not an alien that always beats the AI as that would mean that the challenge would be over and I'd have no use the my sims.
But not once this week have I been punted off track. Nor have I felt I was a part of a choo choo train. If anything, I've had to restart because of running into the back of them. My best races come from doing my best to treat the AI like real people...giving them room and anticipating brake zones and errors. I'm glad that I'm not an alien that always beats the AI as that would mean that the challenge would be over and I'd have no use the my sims.
Last edited:
@CCL71
Yes, AI can brake early but mostly that is only when difficulty is lower. Try raising it to 98-100%. That behavior goes away for the most part. They still take Spas Eau Rouge quite slowly (i.e, they brake, I don't). It is an addon track so could be down to how the modder made it for the AI. Then theres Silverstone short circuit first corner. AI tend to be quite slow there. But they make up for it the rest of the course. It is quite fun to race bumper to bumper with AI.
Big improvements with AI since last patch or patch before that, can't remember exactly. I only drive GT3 so can't comment on anything else or even care.
Yes, AI can brake early but mostly that is only when difficulty is lower. Try raising it to 98-100%. That behavior goes away for the most part. They still take Spas Eau Rouge quite slowly (i.e, they brake, I don't). It is an addon track so could be down to how the modder made it for the AI. Then theres Silverstone short circuit first corner. AI tend to be quite slow there. But they make up for it the rest of the course. It is quite fun to race bumper to bumper with AI.
Big improvements with AI since last patch or patch before that, can't remember exactly. I only drive GT3 so can't comment on anything else or even care.
Hey everyone I have the perfect solution, devs please take note, this is all you need for perfect AI in racing :
1. Race like a human.
2. Make mistakes like a human.
3. Not make mistakes that take me out.
4. Make mistakes that give me an advantage
5. Be willing to overtake me, but not humiliate me.
6. Use real physics.
7. Not use up to many cpu resources while using real physics.
8. Have a character.
9.Not have a character I do not like.
10. Make me feel like Aryton Senna.
11. Not be Ayrton Senna
1. Race like a human.
2. Make mistakes like a human.
3. Not make mistakes that take me out.
4. Make mistakes that give me an advantage
5. Be willing to overtake me, but not humiliate me.
6. Use real physics.
7. Not use up to many cpu resources while using real physics.
8. Have a character.
9.Not have a character I do not like.
10. Make me feel like Aryton Senna.
11. Not be Ayrton Senna
I was running Project CARS this weekend where I ran Le Mans, Imola and Sonoma and at all the tracks, the AI was all over the place...spinning out, brake checking, cutting tracks and so on. It got me thinking that it would be nice if the you the player and the AI had to adhere to track penalties. So if the AI cut the track, they would suffer a slow down penalty or if there was contact, you/they would have a 30 second pit penalty. I know P CARS has penalties in place but I've never ran a race where they were enforced. It would be cool to see a car that cut the track, give back the position, then go back to racing you hard. Just like Iracing does with online racing, it would be nice if we had similar AI rules. I think it would help to make the experience more real by introducing consequences.
In one very funny case, I ran an AI race at the Nurburgring in A/C last week and ended up crashing out. I knew that there was one car left that hadn't passed me after my crash but I couldn't figure out what happened to him; So I waited for him on the side of the track. This AI car had run the entire length of the 'ring in the grass. He got up to my car and ran straight into me where he then continued on his way...in the grass. I thought that was just hilarious.but totally unacceptable at the same time.
Being an admittedly average driver, it is nice when I race AI that provides me with a racing challenge without the arcade madness. Yes having cars flying all over the place might provide for a thrilling gaming experience, but for those of us who want to simulate as much of an authentic race as we can get, having bad AI can be really frustrating. Understanding that all sims handle AI differently, on different tracks, for me the best sims are those that have tried to reduce the amount of arcade craziness and focus on racecraft, ie the racing line, speed and clean passing.
I think rFactor2 and RaceRoom have the best AI, with A/C being close for the most part.. I haven't tried GSCE yet but I here it has good AI too. Project CARS is like Forza or DriveClub, very arcade like...fun no doubt, but I don't take the AI racing very serious.
At the end of the day, I accept the AI for what it is. I try to set the difficulty levels to a point where I have to work to keep up but not win nor get left behind. And as I have said before, I do my best to treat the AI as I would any online racer by concentrating on driving fast and clean while trying to avoid contact with them.
In one very funny case, I ran an AI race at the Nurburgring in A/C last week and ended up crashing out. I knew that there was one car left that hadn't passed me after my crash but I couldn't figure out what happened to him; So I waited for him on the side of the track. This AI car had run the entire length of the 'ring in the grass. He got up to my car and ran straight into me where he then continued on his way...in the grass. I thought that was just hilarious.but totally unacceptable at the same time.
Being an admittedly average driver, it is nice when I race AI that provides me with a racing challenge without the arcade madness. Yes having cars flying all over the place might provide for a thrilling gaming experience, but for those of us who want to simulate as much of an authentic race as we can get, having bad AI can be really frustrating. Understanding that all sims handle AI differently, on different tracks, for me the best sims are those that have tried to reduce the amount of arcade craziness and focus on racecraft, ie the racing line, speed and clean passing.
I think rFactor2 and RaceRoom have the best AI, with A/C being close for the most part.. I haven't tried GSCE yet but I here it has good AI too. Project CARS is like Forza or DriveClub, very arcade like...fun no doubt, but I don't take the AI racing very serious.
At the end of the day, I accept the AI for what it is. I try to set the difficulty levels to a point where I have to work to keep up but not win nor get left behind. And as I have said before, I do my best to treat the AI as I would any online racer by concentrating on driving fast and clean while trying to avoid contact with them.
IMHO there is no perfect AI, for all car/track combo or any mixed class, for all racing conditions, for all environment conditions, for all different players' skill level, for all players with different taste.
Is R3E's AI good? Yes. Do the run you off track? Yes they do. Do they slowdown for yellow flag? No mostly not. Is GSC's AI good? Yes. Do the run you off the track? Yes they do. Are AI's in GTR2 and Race07 good? Yes pretty decent. Do they have problems? Yes, all the time.
Is AC's AI good? Not really. Is it useless that I can't race them? No. Is PCars AI good? No. Is it useless that I can't race them? No. With some tweaking, you can have pretty good offline races. The devs are aware of the problems, and both two games have improved a lot, which is really a good sign.
If I think back, I really don't think Gram Turismo 4's AI is very good, but it still makes a great sp experience. With these AI I can also have some pretty fun races. It is not hard to find flaw in AI in pretty much any racing titles, and then compile them into video clips and call the AI "utterly useless", but it doesn't tell the truth that many people are enjoying racing with AI. Also defending a certain game doesn't make one a fanboy, but attacking other games because he/she loves a different game does ("Your game is inferior to mine!" kind of war cry. Just reminds me of all the BF vs COD madness out there, and btw AIs in those games are pretty bad too).
Making good AI is by no means easy. Even after many things are done properly, some other factors that the devs haven't thought about will pop up and ruin the experience. Even you find your sweet settings with AI, others will find it bad. Or maybe a couple of months later you've improved your skill, the experience will change again. It takes time to polish and refine the design.
I agree with you St3fan. There is no denying there is definitely room for improvement. Nevertheless, I remember every ISI game before rFactor was terrible as well due to the AI, give it some time. AC is huge value for money regardless IMHO..
My first experience with the AC AI was quite bad as cars bumped in to me constantly. I guess the discussion came down to the row between Verstappen and Grosjean in Monaco, who's to blame for crashes due to slow pace?
Now that I've gotten a little bit faster, offline races are very enjoyable, although I only have 11 cars on the grid due to my old system (perhaps that helps avoiding the pile-ups). I have to say the AI's pace can be quite challenging as well (1:39 at 98% at Zandvoort in a 312T).
The only real glitch I've seen so far after two weeks of racing was with the McLaren MP4/13, AI travels outside track limits often.. Lets see what V1.3 brings.
My first experience with the AC AI was quite bad as cars bumped in to me constantly. I guess the discussion came down to the row between Verstappen and Grosjean in Monaco, who's to blame for crashes due to slow pace?
Now that I've gotten a little bit faster, offline races are very enjoyable, although I only have 11 cars on the grid due to my old system (perhaps that helps avoiding the pile-ups). I have to say the AI's pace can be quite challenging as well (1:39 at 98% at Zandvoort in a 312T).The only real glitch I've seen so far after two weeks of racing was with the McLaren MP4/13, AI travels outside track limits often.. Lets see what V1.3 brings.
My very first racing game was Forza 4. I still play it and Horizons 2 on occasion and I still enjoy them. I have yet to experience any game since those 2 that has as much bumper car action. So with the said, my "issues" with any AI are more observations than complaints. AI is what it is and I give credit to the developers who take on the challenge of creating realistic AI. Even though I may get a bit frustrated when I get bumped or rammed, I haven't gotten to a point where any AI has stopped me from playing. And considering that you can and will have contact in online races, I say meh, it's par for the course. Protect yourselves at all times and be safe out there.
Cote Dazur
SIM Addict
I agreement with you @St3fan it takes a little effort to have a good time with the AI in any game, but much less than to find anyone with similar talent on MP, not even taking into accounts the rammers. For a good race with AI, you need to play with the strength slider, as different cars/combo yield a different challenge level. you need to try to race them, winning is not important, winning what anyway? my favorite and easier to get a good challenge is AC AI, but I also have a great time with the AI in R3E. PCars AI is entertaining, it feels scripted but can create pleasing races, if not taken too seriously, plus the cars look gorgeous in PCars, a bonus when following an opponent. GT5/6 AI is not on the same level as the 3 SIM I just mentioned, racing them never feels right and they totally ignore the real driver.
I have no experience with Rfactor2 or GSC, so I cannot comment.
Is there room for improvement in any of them? absolutely, plenty of room!
The thing I would like to add, is that racing AI when using a narrow FOV is much more rewarding, as the distance from opponent in more realistic and the other car proportion look more real, I wish everyone could try it, it is free.
I have no experience with Rfactor2 or GSC, so I cannot comment.
Is there room for improvement in any of them? absolutely, plenty of room!
The thing I would like to add, is that racing AI when using a narrow FOV is much more rewarding, as the distance from opponent in more realistic and the other car proportion look more real, I wish everyone could try it, it is free.
