HPP jBV Help needed

[Wrcfan41]

Hi all!
I have owned some Second hand JBV 2P pedals for about 6 weeks.
Knowing that the JBV's are a relatively new release I thought they would be perfect to upgrade from the Logitech pedals I had for 10 years.
Long Story short I have had a few bizarre issues of late.
I contacted Mark at HPP and he said he Can tune them up for me which is shy of impossible with me living in New Zealand and the complications with the Covid pandemic.
1. Throttle inputs were having large spikes. Making very smooth inputs turn into erratic Spikey inputs , Sometimes 15% throttle would jump to 80%. (have given the pedals a good Clean up and removed all dirt to no evail).

2. Slave cylinder O ring split while racing one day and Dumped all its fluid out on my carpet. (Resolved Easily)

3. I 3d modeled and built a Clutch pedal which worked well for some time. Recently now the X axis has started making random button Presses while using the pedal. The button Presses are coming from the HPP board which is effectively impossible seeing as the JBV now use an HPP designed board instead of the LEO bodnar bu0836 like in the PRX's so do not support extra Inputs. I have swapped clutch and Accelerator around between the X and Y axis and it does not fix the Problem with the X axis.

Lastly what SHOULD I be using for brake fluid/ Oil? Of course there are lots of conflicting arguments around this topic.

Thanks to all in advance.

 

[Jack_Kels]

x , y mm was just a clumsy way of saying "take precise measurements"
I was severely low on when typing it.

Let´s hope hope there is only one size of seals with an inner diameter of 17,x mm or it will be a lot of try and error to find the right fit.

hahaha thank you,

I will let you guys know how I went and hopefully, this is helpful for other people down the line.

Also looking at my pictures is this the bleed plug?

 

[stigs2cousin]

Looks like a "blind plug" to me

So "while you´re in there" you could replace it with a bleeder nipple.

Amazon.com

 

[Jack_Kels]

Looks like a "blind plug" to me

So "while you´re in there" you could replace it with a bleeder nipple.

Amazon.com

wouldn't an issue with a bleeder nipple be it being low in the system or not really matter? correct me if i am wrong

 

[stigs2cousin]

From the image you posted earlier I assumed it would sit on top of the slave cylinder

 

[Jack_Kels]

From the image you posted earlier I assumed it would sit on top of the slave cylinder

hope this can help me an you understand

I believe i have found the correct seal same design as kek but a little bit bigger to fit my dementions, BUT the width is too small will it work or not?

https://www.mcmaster.com/90025k149/

The measurements that i have got from my brake is

Id: 11/16

OD: 13/16

width: 1/8

the measurements from the website are

Id: 11/16

OD: 13/16

width: 1/16

 

[Kek700]

You can order a seal from that German company
They do a lot of sizes.

My seal is an X seal and is 1/8 inch x 1/8 inch, which is what you would expect from an X seal.

If I ever get around to changing my older HPP pedals, i was contemplating the version you have. So i am interested in your whole journey with your pedals.
My HPP pedals are just so good, i am assuming i will keep them.

Kept meaning to ask why the company that sell them now have not been forth coming with all the information you need ??

 

[Jack_Kels]

You can order a seal from that German company
They do a lot of sizes.

My seal is an X seal and is 1/8 inch x 1/8 inch, which is what you would expect from an X seal.

If I ever get around to changing my older HPP pedals, i was contemplating the version you have. So i am interested in your whole journey with your pedals.
My HPP pedals are just so good, i am assuming i will keep them.

Kept meaning to ask why the company that sell them now have not been forth coming with all the information you need ??

unfortunate that the company is not responding to me. if you are not aware HPP was bought out or the pedal designs were bought out by Motion Simulations the company that I have been trying to get in contact with.

I have all the correct measurement Id and Od wise for the seals but the width is my issue unless it doesn't matter under compression.

i will make sure to give you a review when they are put back on the sim.

talking to stig about bleeding nipple does it matter where it goes?

 

[Kek700]

As i said before, in the end i just let them bleed themselves, but if the for some reason it is not happening for you. Put the bleed nipple where the plug is on top of the slave cylinder.
I would just make an educated guess that the width of the seal does make that much of a difference, if it does you will eventually find out.

 

[Jack_Kels]

As i said before, in the end i just let them bleed themselves, but if the for some reason it is not happening for you. Put the bleed nipple where the plug is on top of the slave cylinder.
I would just make an educated guess that the width of the seal does make that much of a difference, if it does you will eventually find out.

yeah ok,

I will play it by ear on what I am doing with the bleed nipple. definitely strip it down and rebuild it and I will let you know.

 

[stigs2cousin]

From both pics the blind plug is on top where you´d want it.

But if it´s too much hassle ( I don´t know if the thread has a "seating flange" for the sealing surface of the bleed nipple) just go with:

"they bleed themselfs"

My experience is with cars and motorcycles where you would pressure bleed the brakes and would need the bleeder nipple. They main advantage would be less of a mess as the surplus fluid would not run over the outside of the slave cylinder but through the bleed hose. But I might be overthinking this.


About the width of the seal:

If it´s half of the designed size it will move in its seat, so everytime the plunger travels the seal will trave 1/16 of an inch with it and then start sliding on the plunger.

I guess that could feel wierd, or maybe your foot doesn´t even notice??
You probably will find out.

 

[blekenbleu]

If it´s half of the designed size it will move in its seat

Having rebuilt a number of automotive clutch and brake cylinders,
grooves wider than seals are not unusual, perhaps to accommodate
a seal becoming wider as circumference is compressed.

 

[Jack_Kels]

Having rebuilt a number of automotive clutch and brake cylinders,
grooves wider than seals are not unusual, perhaps to accommodate
a seal becoming wider as circumference is compressed.

it probably wouldn't hurt to double up on the seal as it possibly could or even put an an o ring behind just for the sole purpose to pick up the play in the seal if there is any

 

[Jack_Kels]

Update. only just rebuilt the master and I have put it in the sim, the issue is the brakes are sticking on the stroke going down, might need grease in the top plate for the main plunger. it also feels like a "light switch"

may be because I used dot 4 brake fluid but may need to go to oil very light weight oil, or bleed the system better...

if you guys have an suggestion I am all ears!

 

[Kek700]

People go for brake fluid, I keep saying you are not getting the system up to 700 Deg C
Thin oil is by far the best.
No mess if you spill it, it has pretty neutral properties.?
Does not smell in the same way brake fluid does.
Tends to lubricate.
I use mobile1 0W30 only because I have some available, but if you can get the 3 in1 sewing machine oil, all the better. This is what I will use next when they are due for a re fresh.

With oil I have initial stiction with the very first application, then it completely disappears

 

[Jack_Kels]

People go for brake fluid, I keep saying you are not getting the system up to 700 Deg C
Thin oil is by far the best.
No mess if you spill it, it has pretty neutral properties.?
Does not smell in the same way brake fluid does.
Tends to lubricate.
I use mobile1 0W30 only because I have some available, but if you can get the 3 in1 sewing machine oil, all the better. This is what I will use next when they are due for a re fresh.

With oil I have initial stiction with the very first application, then it completely disappears

Thanks kek700,

I remember you saying something along the lines a little while back. I have put ATF in there and they feel great but I have got a leak in the master cylinder which I have been trying to sort out with different size o rings.

I am quite surprised as it isn’t where I thought it would leak, but instead the teflon seal that is damaged.

 

[Kek700]

I cannot comment too much on your pedals. mine have a leak from the part were the master cylinder rod enters the master cylinder.
This is because the fluid reservoir supply hole is in behind of the master cylinder seal.
Consequently if i fill up the master cylinder, it all eventually leaks onto he floor.
So i run it with no fluid, quite happily, in the reservoir.
maybe yours is the same.
There, as far as i know, no information on this , the designer may very well have assumed we do not fill the reservoir. i just guessed that.
You may from the above been pointlessly changing the seals. Empty the reservoir, run them, if the are okay accept it like have.
Your master cylinder is at an angle you look at the reservoir fill hole to the master cylinder and make an educated guess from the above if the hole is in front or behind the master cylinder seal. Because yours is at an angle it will take an amount of ATF to puddle behind the master cylinder seal before it ends up on the floor.
I have never had a leak or air in mine and I run with an virtually empty reservoir.
let us know how you progress
Now you know why i use engine oil, ATF is quite a nasty smelly oil .

 

[Jack_Kels]

Hi everyone,

I believe after pulling them apart countless times, they are good. But I can’t seem to find the software to recalibrate the pedals as the fluid is thicker and the brakes are a bit touchy.

Just wondering if anyone knows where the software is?

 

[Kek700]

I use DiView.

 

[Kek700]

Just a side note, decided to look at my brake pedal internally as I was getting a lot of free play. Stripped them, cleaned them and filled with 5w30 motor oil.
Bleeding them was a messy affair . Now I do not have any free play, works great.
???

Follow up to whom it may concern

I have two seals in the slave cylinder.
An X seal which is in tact. A spring seal which seems to be used to seal the shaft exit.
I had damaged the spring seal. So I removed it.
Then ordered a replacement.
But decided to put it all back together, minus the spring seal.
After bleeding the brakes, work the best they have ever done.
Confused but somewhat happy.

 

[stigs2cousin]

Depending on quality and wear of the seals a hydraulic pedal can suck air into the cylinder.
This air of course is then compressible and makes articulating the brakes difficult.
That´s why hydraulic pedals are "high maintenance"