HPP jBV Help needed

[Wrcfan41]

Hi all!
I have owned some Second hand JBV 2P pedals for about 6 weeks.
Knowing that the JBV's are a relatively new release I thought they would be perfect to upgrade from the Logitech pedals I had for 10 years.
Long Story short I have had a few bizarre issues of late.
I contacted Mark at HPP and he said he Can tune them up for me which is shy of impossible with me living in New Zealand and the complications with the Covid pandemic.
1. Throttle inputs were having large spikes. Making very smooth inputs turn into erratic Spikey inputs , Sometimes 15% throttle would jump to 80%. (have given the pedals a good Clean up and removed all dirt to no evail).

2. Slave cylinder O ring split while racing one day and Dumped all its fluid out on my carpet. (Resolved Easily)

3. I 3d modeled and built a Clutch pedal which worked well for some time. Recently now the X axis has started making random button Presses while using the pedal. The button Presses are coming from the HPP board which is effectively impossible seeing as the JBV now use an HPP designed board instead of the LEO bodnar bu0836 like in the PRX's so do not support extra Inputs. I have swapped clutch and Accelerator around between the X and Y axis and it does not fix the Problem with the X axis.

Lastly what SHOULD I be using for brake fluid/ Oil? Of course there are lots of conflicting arguments around this topic.

Thanks to all in advance.

 

[Jack_Kels]

Hi kek700,

I know I am repeating myself but you seem to be the only one online. Do you know how to bleed the hpp jbv break. Also what do you mean by 3 in 1 oil.

Regards

Jack

 

[Kek700]

3 in 1 is a make of oil, ( very light weight oil )I assume it was first introduced to oil sowing machines in the past. Any hardware shop will have it or at least know we’re you can get it.
I just used an engine oil 0w30. ( I assumed an engine oil would protect the seals , 3:1 oil may not !!!)
The bleeding instructions I posted over in #20 in this forum page , follow the link.
They really bleed themselves unlike car brakes.


PS
just noticed you have the latest HPP pedals, how you bleed them I am not sure. I cannot see it being any different.
I would ensure the slave cylinder is lowest, fill the master and pump the pedal slightly to dislodge any bubbles of air.
But I would probably strip them and clean them thoroughly first. Check the seals, check the bores, almost certainly there will be no wear or cylinder scoring. Then bleed them.

 

[Jack_Kels]

3 in 1 is a make of oil, ( very light weight oil )I assume it was first introduced to oil sowing machines in the past. Any hardware shop will have it or at least know we’re you can get it.
I just used an engine oil 0w30. ( I assumed an engine oil would protect the seals , 3:1 oil may not !!!)
The bleeding instructions I posted over in #20 in this forum page , follow the link.
They really bleed themselves unlike car brakes.


PS
just noticed you have the latest HPP pedals, how you bleed them I am not sure. I cannot see it being any different.
I would ensure the slave cylinder is lowest, fill the master and pump the pedal slightly to dislodge any bubbles of air.
But I would probably strip them and clean them thoroughly first. Check the seals, check the bores, almost certainly there will be no wear or cylinder scoring. Then bleed them.

Thank you very much,

hard to get in touch with motion simulations, about how to bleed and "service" the brake pedal. I will keep looking as I am unsure where to find the dampeners that come with the kit as I have purchased this second-hand.

Regards

Jack

 

[Kek700]

Bleeding is so simple as long as you use thin oil and keep the master cylinder above the slave cylinder ( the one with the rubbers on ) they literally bleed themselves.
yes it is that easy, and if it is not then you have a major problem.
As i said, strip them, inspect the seals and bores for damage, if all is perfect, clean, reassemble and fill the reservoir with thin oil, then they should after a few shakes with the slave cylinder below the master, bleed themselves.
Now if the design is polar opposite to the HPP Prx's then you will need to supply photos of the exact problem you are faced with.

 

[Jack_Kels]

Bleeding is so simple as long as you use thin oil and keep the master cylinder above the slave cylinder ( the one with the rubbers on ) they literally bleed themselves.
yes it is that easy, and if it is not then you have a major problem.
As i said, strip them, inspect the seals and bores for damage, if all is perfect, clean, reassemble and fill the reservoir with thin oil, then they should after a few shakes with the slave cylinder below the master, bleed themselves.
Now if the design is polar opposite to the HPP Prx's then you will need to supply photos of the exact problem you are faced with.

just so that I know what I am doing and what is what I labelled this picture as not the best but I think you can understand it. the bottom half of the slave was loose which is why it had leaked.

Thanks,

Jack

 

[Kek700]

Mine has a bleed nipple, your model has a plug.
But that does not matter, is there air in the system. And now you have found the leak are they working okay?

 

[Jack_Kels]

Mine has a bleed nipple, your model has a plug.
But that does not matter, is there air in the system. And now you have found the leak are they working okay?

Not working at the moment that was just a picture on the internet that I found, sorry for the confusion.

I bought a sim and noticed the brake pedal was more than half of the way compressed, investigated more and found an oil trace back to the slave. The back end of the slave had backed off.

Decided to take it off the sim and give it a full refresh, always goo practise to do so especially if second hand and realised there isn’t much info on how to do said refresh.

Stumbled across this forum and you have been a tremendous amount of help.

The pictures attached is the current state of the brake assembly.

Also is that grease looking substance meant to be on the plunger.

Regards,

Jack

 

[Kek700]

First the bores of the master and slave both look okay.
Only you can agree or not agree with that as the picture is not clear enough for me to see a 100%.
The seals look done for, I like the fact that you have double seal on what i assume is the master cylinder. Mine has just 1, hence the oil ;leaks out of the reservoir, with two seals that is negated.
The seal look wrong, they look as though someone has used O rings and not seals.
As i do not have your model i cannot say for sure.
I think we need more two and throwing of information, with some luck it looks though you need some proper seals a clean and refill with a thin motor oil.

 

[Jack_Kels]

First the bores of the master and slave both look okay.
Only you can agree or not agree with that as the picture is not clear enough for me to see a 100%.
The seals look done for, I like the fact that you have double seal on what i assume is the master cylinder. Mine has just 1, hence the oil ;leaks out of the reservoir, with two seals that is negated.
The seal look wrong, they look as though someone has used O rings and not seals.
As i do not have your model i cannot say for sure.
I think we need more two and throwing of information, with some luck it looks though you need some proper seals a clean and refill with a thin motor oil.

Thank you

Bores I believe a perfect as you said was hard to take a picture not sure where I am going to find proper seals. O rings probably will work because if the double o ring. Just get a slightly fatter one.

If you know where to get seals or have a rough idea please let me know. Motion simulation hasn’t responded to any of my emails.
Thanks soo much for the help

Regards,

Jack

 

[Kek700]

I have three of these as spares.

I can get the address of the company for you. They are located in Germany.???
They have a web sight.
You need to see if they are the correct size. I think they are because HPP would probably keep all the ratios the same.
But who knows.

 

[stigs2cousin]

I´m not convinced that O-rings will work as they are designed to do a different job:

O-ring - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

For your pressure cylinders you need a completely different type of seal:

https://external-content.duckduckgo.com/iu/?u=http%3A%2F%2Fmgaguru.com%2Fmgtech%2Ffaulty%2Fpics%2F180-970.jpg&f=1&nofb=1&ipt=36728773170187c894ca6f8dff03dbdfad10cc6edc00d00897285fa40b84a359&ipo=images

If the manufacturer does not provide spare parts or at least a parts number it will be difficult to find replacements.

You could try to take precise measurements (x , y mm) with a caliper and browse manufacturers lists. These seals are most likely not custom made because of cost.

When choosing take your fluid into account, brake fluid needs other gasket materials than oil.

 

[stigs2cousin]

Damn, Ernie, you stole my thunder

Nice one, hope they fit

 

[stigs2cousin]

At another, closer look:

measure the width of the seal grooves. I could imagine that two "wiper type" seals add too much stiction.
The upper groove looks wider as if the "wiper seal" there does the work and the O-ring below just catches spillover fluid ?!?

 

[Kek700]

McMaster-Carr

McMaster-Carr is the complete source for your plant with over 595,000 products. 98% of products ordered ship from stock and deliver same or next day.

www.mcmaster.com

 

[Jack_Kels]

McMaster-Carr

McMaster-Carr is the complete source for your plant with over 595,000 products. 98% of products ordered ship from stock and deliver same or next day.

www.mcmaster.com

At another, closer look:

measure the width of the seal grooves. I could imagine that two "wiper type" seals add too much stiction.
The upper groove looks wider as if the "wiper seal" there does the work and the O-ring below just catches spillover fluid ?!?

Thanks, Kek for the website might come in handy

with stigs comment with the wider groove would it be best to replace them both with seals or just the wider groove with seals?

I also don't know if HPP put the o-rings in or the first owner of the sim!!

another question what is the x,y measurement?

 

[Kek700]

At another, closer look:

measure the width of the seal grooves. I could imagine that two "wiper type" seals add too much stiction.
The upper groove looks wider as if the "wiper seal" there does the work and the O-ring below just catches spillover fluid ?!?

I think you are correct Carsten, the master cylinder on my pedals master cylinder has one seal, probably the stiction I experience is due to that. But this disappears after the first application. Probably the reason I have only one seal was maybe the amount of stiction two produces.
When the seal passes the fill hole in the master cylinder, the oil leaks out, my master cylinder reservoir is empty, if I fill it , it deposits oil on the ground. That is why I have to assume the two seals in these latest pedal are to stop that happening.
Who knows.

 

[Kek700]

I would assume the first seal does it’s job as a master cylinder seal, the second is to stop the oil draining out of the master cylinder reservoir, that could easily be just an O ring, as it does not see any pressure.

another question what is the x,y measurement?

Not sure what you mean.

 

[Jack_Kels]

I would assume the first seal does it’s job as a master cylinder seal, the second is to stop the oil draining out of the master cylinder reservoir, that could easily be just an O ring, as it does not see any pressure.

thanks for that.

will send a couple of pictures of the measurements.

after that, I will order the right seal and post the results. It may take a while for the seals to get to Aus.

 

[Jack_Kels]

I would assume the first seal does it’s job as a master cylinder seal, the second is to stop the oil draining out of the master cylinder reservoir, that could easily be just an O ring, as it does not see any pressure.

another question what is the x,y measurement?

Not sure what you mean.

stig mentioned measuring the x and y measurements for the right seal.

got the inside diameter which is 17.5mm (11/16)on my "plunger".

Kek, yours is 5/8 which is 15.88mm

not sure how tall the seal should be?

 

[stigs2cousin]

x , y mm was just a clumsy way of saying "take precise measurements"
I was severely low on when typing it.

Let´s hope hope there is only one size of seals with an inner diameter of 17,x mm or it will be a lot of try and error to find the right fit.