Has Automobilista 2 surpassed rFactor 2 as an overall sim?

[Shovas]

Has Automobilista 2 surpassed rFactor 2 as an overall sim?

With the release of the Racin' USA pack we now have GTE, GT3, and GT4 classes (not to mention Protoypes and GT5s) in a rather modern package with a physical tire model. This has been the traditional area of cars and driving experience where rFactor 2 was hard to beat.

I swap between sims for a breath of fresh air and to refresh myself on physical tire models after spending time in other sims that don't have a physical tire model. It helps me reset my feel for what ffb should be as I tune ffb in other sims.

I realized over time that I was getting quite used to AMS2 ffb and, at some point, for most cars and for all practical purposes going back to rF2 for the traditional best driving experience just wasn't that much of a draw anymore, especially factoring in slow loading times, a sluggish and awkward UI, and more demanding yet less attractive graphics.

I'll grant that rF2 still has the edge on the tire model, ffb, physics, etc. But in reality it tends not to be enough of a difference. AMS2 is "good enough" for me now, I guess.

The one area that rF2 has hands down is open moddability. That likely won't ever happen with AMS2. And I'll admit and fully expect that Motorsport Games will bring rF2 up to modern standards...eventually.

But for now, what's your opinion? Has rF2 swapped with AMS2 in your personal rankings?

I think it has for me...for now.

 

[Romandevison]

Why do you say a "long" way to go? I feel they have room to grow but if they really wanted to there's some things they could bang out if they were really serious about taking the crown. Wouldn't be that hard to do if the will were there.

We don't know how big the studio is and the complexity of Madness Engine development. I only look at the facts without subjunctive moods.

If we see a crutch with no online in a year we can already be critical. But it's too early to judge what could have been.

 

[Deleted member 197115]

If we see a crutch with no online in a year we can already be critical. But it's too early to judge what could have been.

It's been a year already since release, time flies by.

 

[Shovas]

Maybe now that they're getting praise and good reviews they'll have some breathing room to tackle deeper issues.

 

[boxer]

A bought a couple of months ago and found very disappointing initially... The last update was a nice improvements but still nowhere near AMS1. The feeling of driving is just no there. Sure it looks great (just PC2)... Personal I would be surprise if will ever match AMS1 in terms of feel. For me both ACC and rF2 are a few steps ahead.

Also due to mods alone it will never replace neither AC or rf2... The fact you can dowload your local track in run in rF2 or AC is a huge advantage.

 

[Shovas]

A bought a couple of months ago and found very disappointing initially... The last update was a nice improvements but still nowhere near AMS1. The feeling of driving is just no there. Sure it looks great (just PC2)... Personal I would be surprise if will ever match AMS1 in terms of feel. For me both ACC and rF2 are a few steps ahead.

Also due to mods alone it will never replace neither AC or rf2... The fact you can dowload your local track in run in rF2 or AC is a huge advantage.

I honestly don't think it will ever have the feel of AMS1 since, as I understand it, AMS1 doesn't have the rF2 or Madness Engine style tyre model. I think Reiza commented on this recently saying it's two ends of a spectrum. Both are trying to converge on accuracy but from different starting points and, in their view, it's not true to say one tyre model vs the other is or has the potential to be more realistic.

Definitely agree about the open moddability of rF2. If they just up their game they can reclaim their crown.

 

[hankmadison]

Where can you get Steelcast 27 setups

He's only done a few since the latest update but he tends to make them available in the Imola time trials. Search by car and you should see "steel_reserv" or something like that.

 

[pevides]

AMS 2 Still does not compare to RF2. Not even close. The Tyre model, physics/ feeling its very hard to recreate. AMS 2 is not even on the same level as AMS 1.
Besides that, RF2 is a MUCH more complete SIM. It was all the cars from the WEC 2018, 2019 and 2020. The telemetry is way better. The way the apps connect to the sim. You have the LOG Analyzer for RFactor 2, because you can export the LOGS... to have something like this. The Log Analyzer has more than 10 pages of info from each race. These are just 3 of them:

This alone is Gold. Also you can have access to the Motec I2 with all the telemetry data shown in a professional way.

Overall RFactor 2 is a more advanced/hardcore sim.

 

[Deleted member 963434]

A bought a couple of months ago and found very disappointing initially... The last update was a nice improvements but still nowhere near AMS1. The feeling of driving is just no there. Sure it looks great (just PC2)... Personal I would be surprise if will ever match AMS1 in terms of feel. For me both ACC and rF2 are a few steps ahead.

Also due to mods alone it will never replace neither AC or rf2... The fact you can dowload your local track in run in rF2 or AC is a huge advantage.

i started hating AC lately due to no bending tyres. now i know what people mean by shopping cart simulator. tyres like made of stiff rubber. and AMS2 has bending tyres. it bends, slip angles etc thats why it has grip and catching slide is easier. but hardcore simmers tell AMS2 arcade cause you can catch slide XD
AMS2 has it all, grip , tyre bending, sticking to road so hardcore simmers call it arcade. in other thread i saw guy tellin codemasters f! games are unrealistic cause they showed F1 car making drift xD thats current look of all simracers they think driving car require super human abilities and in real life its so hard and tricky like in AC xD i showed him compilation of F1 cars drifting . same thing with AMS2 i watched once video and youtuber made drift with open wheeler and said this look unrealistic cause he catch that slide too easy xD
recently jimmy broadbent tried AMS2 LMP1 class and he went into drift and said same thing, that those cars shall not drift like that xDDD as if he once drove one, he drive praga and now think he race driver and know best but compare him sim driving and real driving. when sim driving he constantly shaking his wheel on straigh and i dont know why?? and when real driving he keeps it steady so i wonder if he is really good guy to tell us how sims feel compared to real thing??
loo how tyre bends, that makes grip mostly. its not quality of rubber sticking to road if its grippy rubber. but its actually that rubber bending and if car floats its weight around corner, tyre still conected to road. AMS2, pCARS2, MADNESS engine has it. your so called hardcore sims dont. thats why its so harder to drive in AC than real life, and pCARS2 and AMS2 has it spot on
look how rubber working

 

[Deleted member 963434]

imagine each time in above video rubber bends, in AC that same rubber would go slide as it not bends xD thats your best hardcore sim said in one sentence.
each time in above video rubber bends and still stick to road, in AC that rubber not bend but go sliding XD thats all realism you believe into AC xD

 

[Deleted member 963434]

madness engine has SETA tyre model, its most realistic tyre model ever. AMS2 use same thing, just ffb is improved over pCARS. and you tell its unrealistic cause catching slide too easy, too-arcadish? look real cars footage, F1 drift compilation. for comparison if yo go slide in AC or ACC you must hold throttle , straighten wheel and then realese throttle to save it. once you go sideway its like rear tyre drivng on butter. in real life if you go slide you just countersteer and release throttle and car immediately regain grip and STRAIGHTEN ITSELF. you must not do nothing, just release throttle firmly. in sims you must put all affert to get out slide, and in real life you just release gas thats all, you have wide slick tyres that bending all over place, stick to road, all you need to do is just release throttle and its bending rubber straighten car in right place. in your so called hardcore sims you must perform maneuver like fighter jet pilots are trained to save yourself. and its just car not fighter jet what do you expect?

 

[pevides]

imagine each time in above video rubber bends, in AC that same rubber would go slide as it not bends xD thats your best hardcore sim said in one sentence.
each time in above video rubber bends and still stick to road, in AC that rubber not bend but go sliding XD thats all realism you believe into AC xD

Yes, a WEC Car, mainly a prototype should not do drifts. It´s not very common. Of course they can do it, and if you search on youtube you will find anything.. literally anything.. but it´s rare. It´s not normal and under normal circumstances. The big drift from the Jimmy video, should not have happen, and all the bumpiness/sloppiness from the AMS 2 prototypes are wrong. Those cars stick to the road in real life. That´s why they make turns at 280+ km/h like it´s nothing.
A compilation of drifts from F1 cars, from Wec Cars is pointless. Everything happen in this world. I´m pretty sure if you search, you will find a pig riding a bike. But it´s not normal.
The driving experience of a simulator should be as real as possible and not based on rare events.

 

[Deleted member 963434]

look at 1:07 so big angle drift he just let off gas and look how car just straighen, in AC he would be sling shoot to opposite direction thats cause tyre not bending there. in AMS2 you do the same and hardcore simmer tell "too easy, not realistic" XDDD

 

[Deleted member 963434]

Yes, a WEC Car, mainly a prototype should not do drifts. It´s not very common. Of course they can do it, and if you search on youtube you will find anything.. literally anything.. but it´s rare. It´s not normal and under normal circumstances. The big drift from the Jimmy video, should not have happen, and all the bumpiness/sloppiness from the AMS 2 prototypes are wrong. Those cars stick to the road in real life.

yo know whats my theory on that?? XD
they do not drift it in real life as they risk their lifes and/or lot of money of crashing that cars.. and i dont mean they would drift it for fun. but in real racing first thing is courage, second is your abilities. race drivers to sim drivers is like 100/100 000 number, and those 100 try not to crash when driving, and those 100 000 driving like maniacs cause they know nothing happe when they crash. thats why we have so rare footage of f1/LMP cars drifting , its cause real drivers respect their lifes, not thats its impossible. of course it be harder to drift such car than mazda miata but again, its numbers 100 real drivers to 100 000 sim drivers. that mean if 1 of 100 real driver drift F1/LMP car they say "wow what he just did its impossible", and if 1 000 of 100 000 simracers drift F1/LMP car they say "meh i didnt saw any of this in real life, must be arcade" xD

 

[Deleted member 963434]

F1 are too not mean to drift yet its lot of footage it perform long drifts. even in wet surface to save from drift in real life looks much easier than in AC on dry surface xD i tell you thats cause tyres bend in AMS2, tyre stick to road and bend all over place as car's weight travels around place, tyre still is in same place and stick to it, that called tyre bend.
jimmy broadbent preforming that "drift" in LMP car in AMS2 is no proof game is unrealistic, as i saw him driving praga in real life and i know for sure he in real life would not take that corner same way in real life as he did in AMS2, its no comparison. i dont tell AMS2 is 100% accurate, but i 100% tell its more accurate than AC and other "hardcore sims" . what jimmy did there i think no real life driver would do as they would know they can slip, but if one happen to be as brave (Ayrton Senna maybe?) to do it., he could do such long drift with LMP and its nothing unrealistic with that. but they wont not even cause of courage, but they also loose time from such drift

 

[Deleted member 197115]

AMS 2 Still does not compare to RF2. Not even close. The Tyre model, physics/ feeling its very hard to recreate.

Some interesting take on RF2 physic from ex fanboy (starts @ 10:40)

 

[Deleted member 963434]

SPEAKING ABOUT that 1:07 footage i mentioned earlier. its not only in AC you wold be sling shoot to opposite direction after "saving" from such drift. its also thing you not even NEED to make drift xD
i mean you just try to "shake" your wheel like that on straight , and you be sling shoot too., not to mention car shakes like that after drift and still maintain grip. but try to "shake" your wheel on straight and yo be sling shoot i can tell you xD

 

[Deleted member 963434]

Some interesting take on RF2 physic from ex fanboy (starts @ 10:40)

OH GOOD YOU MENTION IT
thats my another theory how make sim racing better,, watch out... watch out:: REMOVE SETUPS, DUM DU DU DUM
thats my biggest pain in the a$$ with sim racing.. is it sim RACING? racing DRIVER simulators? or CAR MECHANICS AND ENGINEERS simulators??? huh? why not make just one PERFECT setup and force everybody to drive that setup? wont it make competitons fairer? not that there are poor pleb barely bought wheel he has talent but will loose to kids who pay for pro esports setup, is it fair?
another thing i dont understand devs make setups in game which are not best from start so why they not make setup which is perfect out of the box and force us ALL to drive one perfect setup?
this thing comes to my mind even more now as you mentioned there are SETUPS BREAKING GAME PHYSICS, co why not remove setups completely? i was so glad they removed setups in pCARS3 but only thing they did wrong was removing tyre wear and fuel usage also.

 

[Deleted member 963434]

surely i can tell what your issues with that "slipping/bumping" cars in AMS2? for me personally it looks so natural, dynamic, immersive things. like i tell in AC driving too static, too slow-like, to precise, game punish for quick wheel movements. and thats not a thing in real car. in real car you drive aggressive, you wooble wheel like a man, not like a faggot. as Nicky Thim once said (GTE driver champion) i say AMS2 has it, it lets you wooble wheel to be best, and AC punish you for quick wheel movements.

 

[Deleted member 963434]

Nicky Thiim is best example of REAL DRIVER coming to sim racing world.
sim racers used to static sims, that wheel tell you what cars doint, cars must stick to road and not slide, you to be best must learn every track perfect, remember which corner you take at what speed, what wheel degree, how much % you press your throttle, at which gear etc all is learned to perfection,
and Nicky comes and tell you driving is about couragge, aggression, car must stick to road, you wooble wheel like maniac to be best.
but simracers dont understand. they finally get game which brings that immersion, dynamics, sense of speed, and they shiit upon it cause they used to old static sims they played whole their life when cars not bounce on bumps xD
Nicky said all about you in that video

 

[Lloyd Johnston]

race drivers to sim drivers is like 100/100 000 number, and those 100 try not to crash when driving, and those 100 000 driving like maniacs cause they know nothing happe when they crash. thats why we have so rare footage of f1/LMP cars drifting , its cause real drivers respect their lifes

I would sy this ^^ is spot on. If you don't drive the car in a manner that is like real life then don't expect the result to feel real.

In sim racing we can push the car to the very limit alot more that a river ever could in real life. I think this is part of why you will see real race drivers out perforemed by sim racers. Real drivers seem to ether drive like it's real, so there times will be slower or don't take it at all serious it just a game after all. Ether way the sim driver ends up faster because they don't care about real like limits, so you see strange stuff happen and would probably see alot more of it in real life to if we couldn't kill our selves.

This notion of everything must be practiced to be the most precise possible is wrong. Drivers only have a limited time to get to grips with tracks in real life and yet they go out on track and deliver, becuase the car lets them fnd the limit and play around on it.

Look at GamerMuscleVideos he barely drives and yet was able to go scooting around a track in a real race car in one day after just a short intro in a road car.

Also watch out for how many times he says it's bouncy, so some bouncing in a race car is to be expected.

why not make just one PERFECT setup and force everybody to drive that setup? wont it make competitons fairer?

Yes it would IF everyone was in the same car. But setups are part of real racing so should be part of the game but they can definitely be exploited and taken to extremes just like sim driving can.

Im crap at setups and just trying to learn, I like the setups in ACC but it's only fare as part of the game to let people who know about setup ups do their thing.

As for buying setup's I did buy 1 set of setups from the https://coachdaveacademy.com/ for the honda in ACC and I still couldn't get the lap times they where talking about. I just use the aggressive setups in ACC and expect others who know how to tweak them will be faster. That's what race teams do.

If people want to race with the same setup as each other then they should have that option, which they do in AMS2.