Has Automobilista 2 surpassed rFactor 2 as an overall sim?

[Shovas]

Has Automobilista 2 surpassed rFactor 2 as an overall sim?

With the release of the Racin' USA pack we now have GTE, GT3, and GT4 classes (not to mention Protoypes and GT5s) in a rather modern package with a physical tire model. This has been the traditional area of cars and driving experience where rFactor 2 was hard to beat.

I swap between sims for a breath of fresh air and to refresh myself on physical tire models after spending time in other sims that don't have a physical tire model. It helps me reset my feel for what ffb should be as I tune ffb in other sims.

I realized over time that I was getting quite used to AMS2 ffb and, at some point, for most cars and for all practical purposes going back to rF2 for the traditional best driving experience just wasn't that much of a draw anymore, especially factoring in slow loading times, a sluggish and awkward UI, and more demanding yet less attractive graphics.

I'll grant that rF2 still has the edge on the tire model, ffb, physics, etc. But in reality it tends not to be enough of a difference. AMS2 is "good enough" for me now, I guess.

The one area that rF2 has hands down is open moddability. That likely won't ever happen with AMS2. And I'll admit and fully expect that Motorsport Games will bring rF2 up to modern standards...eventually.

But for now, what's your opinion? Has rF2 swapped with AMS2 in your personal rankings?

I think it has for me...for now.

 

[Shovas]

The answer is a resounding no. Maybe in weather but what we are really talking about is the driving.. Its a no and it probably never will, mate. Thats the hard lump to swallow for a lot of people. And when I say 'a lot' I mean basically the other 149 concurrent players at any one time. Its a small pool, they just can't believe they did not grow in number.

This is why I specifically used the key phrase "overall sim." I agree rF2 still beats it in the driving experience (ffb, physics, handling, tyre model) but I wanted to know if people felt that AMS2 was getting "enough" right to be the better overall sim. "Good enough" is huge in business. I'm not saying it's great but it is key to staying alive and having the time to progress a sim to the top.

It doesn't need endless penis measuring, naval gazing, or 'positioning' as if its legitimate. Its not. Its just a bit of fun. But its not on the level of rf2 or raceroom or AC. Thats beta-days or alpha-days starry eyed dream gazing.

Sims improve over time. Some developers are faster than others. rF2 is known to have glacial development speed. I am hopeful that will change with Motorsport Games buying them out. But for now it is possible and interesting to me to gauge what people think about sims leap frogging each other.

As I've said, no sim is getting everything right, so comparisons and polling are the best way to figure out which ones are doing what parts right. Then other sims can see where they need to go.

 

[Shovas]

[Mis-post wrong thread]

 

[Kryztov]

I voted AMS2. I play both games and love the handling in RF2, however on a mediocre wheel AMS2 isn't that far off imo and much easier to set up a game. Therefore I find myself playing AMS2 more then RF2.

 

[reshaderacer]

This is why I specifically used the key phrase "overall sim." I agree rF2 still beats it in the driving experience (ffb, physics, handling, tyre model) but I wanted to know if people felt that AMS2 was getting "enough" right to be the better overall sim. "Good enough" is huge in business. I'm not saying it's great but it is key to staying alive and having the time to progress a sim to the top.


Sims improve over time. Some developers are faster than others. rF2 is known to have glacial development speed. I am hopeful that will change with Motorsport Games buying them out. But for now it is possible and interesting to me to gauge what people think about sims leap frogging each other.

As I've said, no sim is getting everything right, so comparisons and polling are the best way to figure out which ones are doing what parts right. Then other sims can see where they need to go.

Ok. I see. It's still off the pace no vigorous defence of it can make that up. I enjoy it a lot myself. But it's got a long way to go. It does sim the tyres and various things well but it's let down by so many other things. I want it to be good but I am not going to be it's patsy or sycophant. It needs to be deserving. The poll is naturally biased and even in a site like this the likers are disproportionately high

Sims are not special cases. They do improve over time but that's not always true.

Ams2 does get a bad rap from some quarters but the main negative thrust is well deserved. It'll take more time. It's an interesting poll. Can only wait I guess. I think the wider simming aspects of the engine are really cool and highly welcome but can't count chickens before they hatch. It's a product not a religion

 

[Deleted member 197115]

I wanted to know if people felt that AMS2 was getting "enough" right to be the better overall sim.

I remember how floored I was when playing single car/track combo in AC EA. It felt like a proper sim from the get go, revolutionary in fact.
Here we have lots of good things already, content, raceable (sometimes) AI, championships, great graphics with proper weather and day/night support, things that took years for Kunos and team of modders to deliver, but for FFB/physics/driving feel I'd trade that EA Lotus Elise SC on Magione over all the bells and whistles we get in AMS2.
Nail that and it could become world class sim, sim community is hungry for something new.
But after waiting through PCars, PCars2, and now over a year with AMS2, things don't look as promising as at the beginning.
Really hope Reiza can prove me wrong.

 

[andrea1978]

It is true that the start was not the best: I also struggled to appreciate it as the technical sector was very rough, bop / AI to fix, limited fleet and FFB / feeling not exciting. This is why I continue to prefer PC2 and its mods. But since PC2 is no longer developed and mods are few / tiring to do, I believe that AMS2 can become the best simulator within 6/12 months. And when I talk about a simulator it is absurd to think that the only important thing to simulate is physics. rF2 in my opinion is no less crude than AMS2: continuous (but very slow) changes, incomplete car fleet for many series, most of the mods of very poor quality, old graphics already in 2013 and VR implemented by an amateur. The truth is that a completely satisfactory simulator from the main points of view probably does not exist in this historical period (e.g. as was the rF1 / GTR2), but there are good combinations: ACC but only if you love GT3 and don't use the VR, PC2 if you use VR and love Le Mans, iRacing if you are interested in play online... and so on.

 

[tuono]

i have not used ams2 for a while so downloaded the new updates and the american dlc.
wow at daytona in the porsche with my bodnar v2 its amazing.
i used the bodnar preset with no tweaking and straight away the feel is outstanding,to me its up there with acc ffb but i am easily pleased,i am not sure i could tweak it better i dont want to go down that rabbit hole spending all my time tweaking instead of driving.
any other bodnar users out there post up your setups

 

[azqa]

In my opinion, doing this poll on the Automobilista forum makes no sense.

All fans of AMS 2 meet here, and obviously lack objectivity.

Regarding rFactor 2, I created a post saying what I like about rFactor 2.

It's really objective, and also not exhaustive.

If you want to take a look, it's quick to read.

Also the new tire model of rF2 has just been released, it is currently only available on the BMW M4 Class 1 (DTM), which is valid * FREE *. Spoiler: it's a killer.

What I like in rFactor 2 ! Not exhaustive

Not exhausive !!! - Excellent physics engine with very successful realroad and new tire model which arrives designed in connection with Michelin...... - Physics realism of S397 official cars (about 40) - Physics realism of laser scan tracks - Diversified S397 cars - Rather high quality...

www.racedepartment.com

 

[Amanda]

Almost, to me.

My two biggest gripes with AMS2 is the erratic brake behavior (reminiscent of Project Cars 2) and the AI being too inconsistent when it comes to lap times.

 

[dwightyone]

Almost, to me.

My two biggest gripes with AMS2 is the erratic brake behavior (reminiscent of Project Cars 2) and the AI being too inconsistent when it comes to lap times.

Yar, I would agree with that. I'm a self confessed AMS2 fanboy and if anyone comes to these forums to slag it off I am more than happy to go into my shed and grab a handful of my Turbo 2000 version Pitchforks and share them out for free between my fellow comrades - but yes, I still think the brakes still need a tad of working on across the board IMO.

 

[andrea1978]

Almost, to me.

My two biggest gripes with AMS2 is the erratic brake behavior (reminiscent of Project Cars 2) and the AI being too inconsistent when it comes to lap times.

I never had problems with PC2/AMS2 brakes, except if they are not properly set. Brake temperature is the key, it is a matter of finding the right setting for the air so that the temperature between braking and the other is always in the optimal range. If you arrive with the brakes too cold or hot the answer is worse (and erratic).

As with PC2, the only way to make the AI consistent is to set the aggression to maximum. This value has little impact on the actual likelihood of making mistakes, but makes the AI always push to its limit. Limit that is instead dependent on the strength of the AI. If the aggression is at 50%, not all the curves will be performed at maximum performance, and in case of dubbing the times will collapse.

 

[Amanda]

I never had problems with PC2/AMS2 brakes, except if they are not properly set. Brake temperature is the key, it is a matter of finding the right setting for the air so that the temperature between braking and the other is always in the optimal range. If you arrive with the brakes too cold or hot the answer is worse (and erratic).

As with PC2, the only way to make the AI consistent is to set the aggression to maximum. This value has little impact on the actual likelihood of making mistakes, but makes the AI always push to its limit. Limit that is instead dependent on the strength of the AI. If the aggression is at 50%, not all the curves will be performed at maximum performance, and in case of dubbing the times will collapse.

The brake behavior I mention is how PC2/AMS2 can't seem to set a true deadzone to my brake pedal. On all other sims, ranging from GTR2 (2006) to AC/rF2/AMS1/R3E/etc, I can set my brake deadzone to 50% without problems. This means these sims will only recognize brake inputs from 50 to 100% of travel on my real pedal. However, Project Cars 2 and Automobilista 2 seem to suffer from the same problem: no matter the deadzone I set, they'll start recognizing my brake input before the 50%, sometimes even if I set it to 75% they seem to think I'm braking even though I'm only pressing 45-50% of my pedal.
This behavior is only preset on PC2/AMS2.

And the AI behavior is regarding lap times. While their laptimes may seem OK at first, I noticed they're way too slow at some corners, like the Schumacher S on Nurburgring, or Pouhon on Spa. They "go flying" on some corners but are like turtles on others.

 

[BlaKArg]

To me, hands down, yes. But I have also never understood the hype for rF2, if it's supposed to be "realistic" then driving a race car would probably be pretty boring. I could never really be on the limit on that sim, as I would not get any useful info through the wheel until it was too late. Now, I understand I probably had an issue somewhere but I could never get it sorted and honestly with everything else that rF2 does VERY wrong, it's just not worth it.

AMS2 on the other hand makes me smile with joy pretty much every time. Being of the limit feels amazing, it makes SENSE, I am able to adapt to the car because it tells me what it needs on each lap; any change in tyre temps or degradation, track state... it is so dynamic that you can feel the changes in the handling after cooking your tyres or brakes just a bit too much even after a lap. I get that nowhere else, and that's why I have pretty much stopped driving other sims. Even after firing back ACC I realized I drive fast on there because I know what to expect from it, not because the sim itself is communicating anything that feels natural to me.

So yeah, big fan of AMS2 right now and I have and drive all sims. To me it does driving a RACE car better than anything else.

 

[Shovas]

The brake behavior I mention is how PC2/AMS2 can't seem to set a true deadzone to my brake pedal. On all other sims, ranging from GTR2 (2006) to AC/rF2/AMS1/R3E/etc, I can set my brake deadzone to 50% without problems. This means these sims will only recognize brake inputs from 50 to 100% of travel on my real pedal. However, Project Cars 2 and Automobilista 2 seem to suffer from the same problem: no matter the deadzone I set, they'll start recognizing my brake input before the 50%, sometimes even if I set it to 75% they seem to think I'm braking even though I'm only pressing 45-50% of my pedal.
This behavior is only preset on PC2/AMS2.

You might want to try DIView. It will allow you to set deadzones at a lower level. I've had to use it for...maybe it was iRacing until Ifigured how to hold the pedal in while initiating calibration to fake a deadzone. Anyway, if it's the same issue I had it's another way to set a deadzone outside of a game.

 

[Amanda]

You might want to try DIView. It will allow you to set deadzones at a lower level. I've had to use it for...maybe it was iRacing until Ifigured how to hold the pedal in while initiating calibration to fake a deadzone. Anyway, if it's the same issue I had it's another way to set a deadzone outside of a game.

Wow! Thank you! Thank you thank you thank you!
This super old and free piece of software can do what a very expensive game devs couldn't manage xD
Neils is a freaking legend!

 

[Amanda]

Great, now I can actually brake without spinning ;-)
Freaking awesome.

 

[Amanda]

@Shovas now let's tackle cameras xD
Can we have static cameras? Like with no g-forces whatsoever.

 

[Gevatter]

@Shovas now let's tackle cameras xD
Can we have static cameras? Like with no g-forces whatsoever.

Set cameras to legacy mode with head movement to 0 and disable g-force effect and high speed shake effect.

 

[Amanda]

TO AYNONE HAVING PROBLEMS WITH THE BRAKES:

Download DIView, as per Shovas suggestion. There you can set your brake's deadzone and it works beautifully.

To prove the point, I used OBS to record the game and I put the Wheeler app there too (it shows your control inputs). Without DIView, the Wheeler app would see my entire brake pedal input - but after setting up everything in DIView, the Wheeler app sees what the games now see: they only see brake inputs after my preset 50% deadzone.

Now, this isn't a problem on any other games other than Pcars2 and AMS2, they seem to be quite stupid when setting a deadzone on my G29. But now I don't need to set a deadzone in-game as DIView has done it for all games, essentially.

I had to record at 30 FPS otherwise OBS wouldn't record for some reason.

 

[Shovas]

TO AYNONE HAVING PROBLEMS WITH THE BRAKES:

Download DIView, as per Shovas suggestion. There you can set your brake's deadzone and it works beautifully.

To prove the point, I used OBS to record the game and I put the Wheeler app there too (it shows your control inputs). Without DIView, the Wheeler app would see my entire brake pedal input - but after setting up everything in DIView, the Wheeler app sees what the games now see: they only see brake inputs after my preset 50% deadzone.

Now, this isn't a problem on any other games other than Pcars2 and AMS2, they seem to be quite stupid when setting a deadzone on my G29. But now I don't need to set a deadzone in-game as DIView has done it for all games, essentially.

I had to record at 30 FPS otherwise OBS wouldn't record for some reason.

Great, informative post, you might want to create a whole new topic for that to get more eyeballs on it.