GTR2: Why are Modern Sims Still Not as Good?

[Paul Jeffrey]

GTR2 is 11 years old, features a series that no longer exists and was developed for technology less advanced than a modern smart phone. Unbelievably it's still one of the best sims available today.

What I want to know is why? Why in the last 10 + years have some of the many awesome features found in this now long forgotten game not made their way into something more modern? Ok granted many different games feature some of the bits in GTR2, but no single title has taken what was already an incredible base and expanded upon it with the aid of much advanced technology we now have at our disposal.

Driving School? Check
Fully animated pit workers? Check
Animated flag marshals? Check
Day - night transition? Check
Weather cycle? Check
Full official series licence, over two separate seasons? Check
...and the list goes on and on...

Simply put GTR2 was massively overdeveloped, period. SimBin Studios quite literally took every single aspect of the then premier GT racing series in the world and recreated it all into a compelling racing experience that still stands out as a top simulation even by the standards of today, 11 years after the game hit our shelves.

I just find it all incredibility bizarre. In very few industries outside of sim racing will you see a decline in product quality and content as the years progress like we have to put up with today. When GTR2 first shipped in September 2006 the game was a complete package, not splattered with ridiculous bugs that prevented anyone having a good time, not bombarded by wave after wave of disparate DLC content with little or no relevance to the main experience and not hanging on by the merest thread for dear life as another iteration of something that's been released by someone else already. It really was a golden time for sim racing fans, and those who witnessed it all first hand really did think this would be the beginning of something big in sim racing.

Fast forward to 2017 and sadly the progress expected post GTR2 has quite simply not materialised. The game, the official simulation of the FIA GT World Championship, was probably the very last fully feature complete racing simulation we have seen in our niche genre. We've had loads of new games since then, some of which have even been released by the same people responsible for GTR and GTR2, but none have even come close to matching the level of features and polish afforded fans back in 2006. It's down right strange.

Take RaceRoom Racing Experience for example, developed as the next GT game from the people behind GTR and GTR2, when the title first hit public beta stage back in February 2013 what did we have? Basically a hotlapping simulation with limited content, no official series licence, no AI to race against and precisely zero multiplayer features. Added to the still missing animated flag marshals and a range of other GTR2 items that haven't made the move over with time, it's all rather a depressing scene in which to take in.

Ok I appreciate Sector3 have worked exceptionally hard at improving RaceRoom to get to a level where it is barely recognisable now to what it looked like on launch day, but still to even consider releasing a game that was basically stripped of everything that made GTR2 great is simply mind boggling.

And it's not just RaceRoom that are guilty of missing out some key features considered par for the course 11 years ago, everyone is doing it! You only have to look at one of the most popular sims on the market Assetto Corsa as a perfect example, they consider themselves to be perfectionists on a mission to produce the most true to life experience possible, and they even miss out the core basics like weather and day to night transition, never mind such "nice to have" features like a driving school, proper flag implementation and multiclass racing options. It's simply amazing to realise that these features quite simply only exist in a game that was designed and released over a decade ago. Unbelievable.

GTR2 still looks pretty good on top graphics settings, still feels very nice indeed with my trusty CSW V2 and still sounds like it belongs in the very top tier of audio experience. All that whilst replicating a seriously mega international championship in a exceptionally detailed simulation that really does pick out all the little features that makes driving on a virtual track feel like the real thing. With that said and the pretty compelling physics considering the age of the title added up with stuff that no other sim has all together in one package, this is why I still believe GTR2 is, without reservation, the very best simulation racing experience one can purchase during 2017.

I love the game, it's just a bit sad that no one has thought to try and make something similar in the following 132 months since it was released.

GTR was released by SimBin Studios exclusively for PC. The game is still available to purchase on Steam for £4.99.

Like GTR2? Well lucky you, we are seriously considering a brand new informal league! Check out the GTR2 sub forum for general GTR2 discussion or our new GTR2 RDGT Championship forum for more details of the new league season. To prepare for the league all we ask is you have Premium membership, a fresh GTR2 install and these two additional patches HERE and HERE. Get ready for a return of the legend....

Do you still enjoy GTR2? What did the sim do right in your opinion? Why do features present in GTR2 still not appear in moderns sims? Let us know in the comments section below!

 

[Shovas]

Mark, DucFreak, you're in a unique position to observe how we GTR2 fans look back on the game. Do you share similar views of the game or different views after all these years? Do you think we go overboard for it or do you think we admire it on legitimate merits of the game?

 

[Mark Reynolds]

I think as a complete package GTR2 is pretty much still unbeaten tbh, there is plenty to still admire, sure it has a few warts, but they are mostly benign, the biggest wart I still experience is the AI and how it deals with multiclass racing and how they lap the slower cars during a race, apart from that there is little which causes me to thump the wheel in frustration. Still a great game IMHO. I think I can speak for Duc here, remember we are fans and game players as well, so often share the same excitements and disappointment in a title, we just like you, just had the privilege to work the other side of the fence to realise our dreams.

 

[DucFreak]

I think as a complete package GTR2 is pretty much still unbeaten tbh, there is plenty to still admire, sure it has a few warts, but they are mostly benign, the biggest wart I still experience is the AI and how it deals with multiclass racing and how they lap the slower cars during a race, apart from that there is little which causes me to thump the wheel in frustration. Still a great game IMHO. I think I can speak for Duc here, remember we are fans and game players as well, so often share the same excitements and disappointment in a title, we just like you, just had the privilege to work the other side of the fence to realise our dreams.

Absolutely, make those words mine as well.

 

[David Wright]

I have posted this before but I think its relevant here. Billy Strange from ISR wasn't into PC racing back in 2006. More recently he has of course got experience of all the current gen sims. So what is the reaction of someone used to current gen sims when they try GTR2 for the first time?

As I understand it, Billy does have some racing experience IRL.

 

[Mark Reynolds]

Well kinda ironically I also now have the retrospective perspective now that I race for real in the real world myself, slicks the whole nine yards........none of the simulators are terrible, and none of them are perfect either.

 

[Mark Reynolds]

Currently building this to race next year as well

 

[Andy_J]

As a retro gamer myself and still dabbling with GTR2 and can most safely and assuredly say that the AI and the external replays and the sound was still better then than Pcars 2 today. You guys did a great job back then.

 

[Shovas]

...and the sound was still better then than Pcars 2 today.

I find it funny (sad?) that after spending a lot of time listening to sounds in GTR2 then heading back to iRacing it's so dead sounding over there, the engine sounds in particular. I can't believe SImBin has been nailing race car sound design for over a decade now and *all* other sims just seem like amateur attempts in comparison.

 

[Shovas]

View attachment 220952 Currently building this to race next year as well

Your liveries look great!

 

[Jempy]

I can't believe SImBin has been nailing race car sound design for over a decade now and *all* other sims just seem like amateur attempts in comparison.

I'd rather say not "all" but all except one: RaceRoom Experience is surely the best now in this point of view. Not just for arguing .... anyway that's the feeling I get... but all personal tastes are different.
Diversity is needed for that reason.....
Finally, difficult if not impossible yet to find a simracing game as complete and immersive as GTR2.

NB and that's the reason why I'm still driving GTR2 but less than doing some work for it.

 

[Shovas]

I'd rather say not "all" but all except one: RaceRoom Experience is surely the best now in this point of view.

Oops, yes, R3E is the pinnacle right now. To me SimBin = Sector 3 Studios so I was including R3E when I was thinking about it.

 

[Shovas]

Per a previous post about trying PCars2, I've just tried the demo. The driving is actually very acceptable. I mean if you're okay with GTR2 physics/handling PCars2 definitely feels like a modern sim. Not sure how it compares physics/ffb-wise against others yet but I hear it's up there.

My first impressions confirm what people are saying: Some cars feel good and others don't. Even in the demo the Ferrari and Formula cars feel quite good but there's something wrong with the Lamborghini.

I'll be buying this when the right deal comes around.

 

[Bjarne Hansen]

Regarding sounds,
GTL had /have horrible car sounds which have been corrected on some cars by DucFreak. The guy responsible for the excellent sounds in P&G.
I believe one of the main reasons for the popularity of P&G are the consistency of the driving experience and the car sounds.
For the most part GTR2 got good car sounds and Race 07 got real good car sounds.
AC, Pc2, rF2 and AMS got more poor cars sounds than good ones!
These days it seams like the emphasis are to bringing out as much content as they can and not to worry too much about the overall quality.
As long as the buying public gets more excited about the latest Ferrari than about a truly finished product we will continue to get those half baked sims.

 

[ouvert]

Regarding sounds,
GTL had /have horrible car sounds which have been corrected on some cars by DucFreak. The guy responsible for the excellent sounds in P&G.
I believe one of the main reasons for the popularity of P&G are the consistency of the driving experience and the car sounds.
For the most part GTR2 got good car sounds and Race 07 got real good car sounds.
AC, Pc2, rF2 and AMS got more poor cars sounds than good ones!
These days it seams like the emphasis are to bringing out as much content as they can and not to worry too much about the overall quality.
As long as the buying public gets more excited about the latest Ferrari than about a truly finished product we will continue to get those half baked sims.

common AMS is 2nd best sounding sim out there .. specialy now with reverb .. name one bad sounding car in game ..
AC started really bad but since Dream pack 2 they started getting better and Porsche and Ferarri packs are good ..
rF2 is hit and miss as with everything in that sim
Pc2 is mostly average ..

 

[Bjarne Hansen]

While you are entitled to you own opinion I assume you only got 2 sims:
FVee I have driven Fvee on most if not all tracks in South of Brazil except Curitiba.
And they do not sound like that. I have not raced but a golf buddy and I drove his son's FVee to the tracks mid week before his races and could use it for hot lapping. They still sound like a Fusca just with different exhaust giving a sharper tone.
It also got too dumbed down. Try it in GSCE much closer to real life.
Mitsubishi Lancer EVO. No they do not sound like a sewing machine. Same issue with the Opala.
At least they fix the driving in the Opela while the Evo still drives like a SUV.
And all cars I have tried bass inside while the outside sounds are better.
So yes I will say that AMS sounds in the poor end of the scale

 

[Jempy]

Strange, by the way, you seem both to avoid .... RaceRoom Experience in your choices for sounds !
Strange, as in my own taste, these are the ones I prefer ... and RRE is rather well quoted at this point of view. ( despite of course its free-to-pay system ... with some pros as 1 car bought allows you to see all cars of the same serie ... and cons of course ).

 

[ouvert]

While you are entitled to you own opinion I assume you only got 2 sims:
FVee I have driven Fvee on most if not all tracks in South of Brazil except Curitiba.
And they do not sound like that. I have not raced but a golf buddy and I drove his son's FVee to the tracks mid week before his races and could use it for hot lapping. They still sound like a Fusca just with different exhaust giving a sharper tone.
It also got too dumbed down. Try it in GSCE much closer to real life.
Mitsubishi Lancer EVO. No they do not sound like a sewing machine. Same issue with the Opala.
At least they fix the driving in the Opela while the Evo still drives like a SUV.
And all cars I have tried bass inside while the outside sounds are better.
So yes I will say that AMS sounds in the poor end of the scale

nah .. I have all mentioned sims GSCE, GTR2, GTR Evo ( includeded .. well pretty much all worthy sims since GTR .. GTR Evo being most played and just average sounded .. with cars sharing sounds, etc ...

well I`m not gonna argue .. from real sounds compared to AMS sounds listened through same output it sounds either spot on or very close .. your headphones or repro might change drastically sound .. specialy if you have gaming HP or repro ... just by adjusting EQ on your sound card you can have Vee resonating in high freq or muffled down ...

and yep R3E is far ahead ..

 

[Rob]

I own AC and PC2, but am signed up to play iRacing soon. I thought it might be interesting not to compare opinions, but company process. I could not find anything about the other two (maybe I didn't know where to look, though) and I found this interesting (the sound part):

 

[ouvert]

I own AC and PC2, but am signed up to play iRacing soon. I thought it might be interesting not to compare opinions, but company process. I could not find anything about the other two (maybe I didn't know where to look, though) and I found this interesting (the sound part):

well at least in Automobilista all sounds are recorded from real cars since 2013... in AC I wouldn`t be sure ..

 

[Will Mazeo]

While you are entitled to you own opinion I assume you only got 2 sims:
FVee I have driven Fvee on most if not all tracks in South of Brazil except Curitiba.
And they do not sound like that. I have not raced but a golf buddy and I drove his son's FVee to the tracks mid week before his races and could use it for hot lapping. They still sound like a Fusca just with different exhaust giving a sharper tone.
It also got too dumbed down. Try it in GSCE much closer to real life.
Mitsubishi Lancer EVO. No they do not sound like a sewing machine. Same issue with the Opala.
At least they fix the driving in the Opela while the Evo still drives like a SUV.
And all cars I have tried bass inside while the outside sounds are better.
So yes I will say that AMS sounds in the poor end of the scale

What you said has nothing to do with sound quality tho, just wrong sound samples.
In that case I wish they'd replace the sound of the Marcas... annoying as hell