GTR2: Why are Modern Sims Still Not as Good?

[Paul Jeffrey]

GTR2 is 11 years old, features a series that no longer exists and was developed for technology less advanced than a modern smart phone. Unbelievably it's still one of the best sims available today.

What I want to know is why? Why in the last 10 + years have some of the many awesome features found in this now long forgotten game not made their way into something more modern? Ok granted many different games feature some of the bits in GTR2, but no single title has taken what was already an incredible base and expanded upon it with the aid of much advanced technology we now have at our disposal.

Driving School? Check
Fully animated pit workers? Check
Animated flag marshals? Check
Day - night transition? Check
Weather cycle? Check
Full official series licence, over two separate seasons? Check
...and the list goes on and on...

Simply put GTR2 was massively overdeveloped, period. SimBin Studios quite literally took every single aspect of the then premier GT racing series in the world and recreated it all into a compelling racing experience that still stands out as a top simulation even by the standards of today, 11 years after the game hit our shelves.

I just find it all incredibility bizarre. In very few industries outside of sim racing will you see a decline in product quality and content as the years progress like we have to put up with today. When GTR2 first shipped in September 2006 the game was a complete package, not splattered with ridiculous bugs that prevented anyone having a good time, not bombarded by wave after wave of disparate DLC content with little or no relevance to the main experience and not hanging on by the merest thread for dear life as another iteration of something that's been released by someone else already. It really was a golden time for sim racing fans, and those who witnessed it all first hand really did think this would be the beginning of something big in sim racing.

Fast forward to 2017 and sadly the progress expected post GTR2 has quite simply not materialised. The game, the official simulation of the FIA GT World Championship, was probably the very last fully feature complete racing simulation we have seen in our niche genre. We've had loads of new games since then, some of which have even been released by the same people responsible for GTR and GTR2, but none have even come close to matching the level of features and polish afforded fans back in 2006. It's down right strange.

Take RaceRoom Racing Experience for example, developed as the next GT game from the people behind GTR and GTR2, when the title first hit public beta stage back in February 2013 what did we have? Basically a hotlapping simulation with limited content, no official series licence, no AI to race against and precisely zero multiplayer features. Added to the still missing animated flag marshals and a range of other GTR2 items that haven't made the move over with time, it's all rather a depressing scene in which to take in.

Ok I appreciate Sector3 have worked exceptionally hard at improving RaceRoom to get to a level where it is barely recognisable now to what it looked like on launch day, but still to even consider releasing a game that was basically stripped of everything that made GTR2 great is simply mind boggling.

And it's not just RaceRoom that are guilty of missing out some key features considered par for the course 11 years ago, everyone is doing it! You only have to look at one of the most popular sims on the market Assetto Corsa as a perfect example, they consider themselves to be perfectionists on a mission to produce the most true to life experience possible, and they even miss out the core basics like weather and day to night transition, never mind such "nice to have" features like a driving school, proper flag implementation and multiclass racing options. It's simply amazing to realise that these features quite simply only exist in a game that was designed and released over a decade ago. Unbelievable.

GTR2 still looks pretty good on top graphics settings, still feels very nice indeed with my trusty CSW V2 and still sounds like it belongs in the very top tier of audio experience. All that whilst replicating a seriously mega international championship in a exceptionally detailed simulation that really does pick out all the little features that makes driving on a virtual track feel like the real thing. With that said and the pretty compelling physics considering the age of the title added up with stuff that no other sim has all together in one package, this is why I still believe GTR2 is, without reservation, the very best simulation racing experience one can purchase during 2017.

I love the game, it's just a bit sad that no one has thought to try and make something similar in the following 132 months since it was released.

GTR was released by SimBin Studios exclusively for PC. The game is still available to purchase on Steam for £4.99.

Like GTR2? Well lucky you, we are seriously considering a brand new informal league! Check out the GTR2 sub forum for general GTR2 discussion or our new GTR2 RDGT Championship forum for more details of the new league season. To prepare for the league all we ask is you have Premium membership, a fresh GTR2 install and these two additional patches HERE and HERE. Get ready for a return of the legend....

Do you still enjoy GTR2? What did the sim do right in your opinion? Why do features present in GTR2 still not appear in moderns sims? Let us know in the comments section below!

 

[Paul Jeffrey]

Hey @Eric Boosman and @Mark Reynolds ... I smell a feature article coming on...

Fancy it? Relive some of the GTR2 glory once again.. ?

 

[Mark Reynolds]

I had seriously thought about going to DK for the GTR2 24hr events but never got around to it sadly, GTR2 is still something I enjoy playing on occasion so not a problem to me.

 

[Ken Bell]

I still get the cars out the garage in GTR2. It is sooo good. However, I remember when starting to use GTR2 that the track evolution wasn’t as good as GTR. I may be wrong but I am sure GTR used to leave more tyre marks and the rubber bits, um what are they called?? round bubbles just offline. Both were brilliant.
So, a race for memory lane? Yeah, I can do that!

 

[David Wright]

I still get the cars out the garage in GTR2. It is sooo good. However, I remember when starting to use GTR2 that the track evolution wasn’t as good as GTR. I may be wrong but I am sure GTR used to leave more tyre marks and the rubber bits, um what are they called?? round bubbles just offline. Both were brilliant.
So, a race for memory lane? Yeah, I can do that!

They darkened the tarmac texture shade for GTR2 - this may be a factor in reducing the visibility of the rubbered line and marbles. Its a shame as Livetrack is sometimes missed by users. Although ISI probably lost a lot of potential rF2 customers with their extreme green track state, it did (along with the ability to accelerate rubbering in) ensure everyone knew rF2 had Realroad.

 

[Ken Bell]

They darkened the tarmac texture shade for GTR2 - this may be a factor in reducing the visibility of the rubbered line and marbles. Its a shame as Livetrack is sometimes missed by users. Although ISI probably lost a lot of potential rF2 customers with their extreme green track state, it did (along with the ability to accelerate rubbering in) ensure everyone knew rF2 had Realroad.

MARBLES! lol. Thats what they were called.
Yes, I remember vaguely know. the texture of the track was darker.

 

[Eric Boosman]

Hey @Eric Boosman and @Mark Reynolds ... I smell a feature article coming on...

Fancy it? Relive some of the GTR2 glory once again.. ?

Yeah, I'm down for it

 

[Steve Worrell]

I booted this up again last night with the EEC GT3 mod this time and I am still blown away by the quality of this title. Still the most fun I have on any sim, I just wish it had up to date cars.

If, and it's a big if, GTR3 happens it will have to go some way to beat GTR2.

 

[felippekiss]

I booted this up again last night with the EEC GT3 mod this time and I am still blown away by the quality of this title. Still the most fun I have on any sim, I just wish it had up to date cars.



If, and it's a big if, GTR3 happens it will have to go some way to beat GTR2.

https://twitter.com/SimBinStudios/status/970620133113810944?s=19

 

[Kenny Paton]

I booted this up again last night with the EEC GT3 mod this time and I am still blown away by the quality of this title. Still the most fun I have on any sim, I just wish it had up to date cars.

If, and it's a big if, GTR3 happens it will have to go some way to beat GTR2.

When suddenly you're short of memory and the new sims don't run then thank god I still have GTR2 P&G to enjoy.

 

[Steve Worrell]

When suddenly you're short of memory and the new sims don't run then thank god I still have GTR2 P&G to enjoy.View attachment 241077 View attachment 241078 View attachment 241079

Still the best Sim..

 

[Kenny Paton]

Still the best Sim..

I have three installs on my hd, it may not be the latest but it's got the xfactor that just makes it so good.

 

[Shovas]

I've got to give P&G a try. I went to install it one day and the install just seemed so daunting. Maybe when I have some time to throw at it...

 

[Kenny Paton]

I've got to give P&G a try. I went to install it one day and the install just seemed so daunting. Maybe when I have some time to throw at it...

You need a clean install of GTR2 from then on it's really not difficult. Being able to do your own Goodwood Revival is great fun and well worth the time spent installing. As a plus there are so many tracks a lot of which fit in with the mod perfectly.

 

[Kuckoo]

The OP is 100% spot-on.
The same could be said for other sim genres, especially flight sims. Sadly, it seems that simming peaked 10-15 years ago, and while prettier to look at today, things have been progressively dumbed down and simplified since then.
GTR EVO was the first step backwards, and I never felt bothered to try any other racing sim since. iRacing seems good enough but that is strictly online only, running on someone else's schedule and dealing with others on the track who frankly have no business driving anything. Driving against a competent, well-tuned AI is far more immersive, and realistic for that matter.

 

[Steve Worrell]

The OP is 100% spot-on.
The same could be said for other sim genres, especially flight sims. Sadly, it seems that simming peaked 10-15 years ago, and while prettier to look at today, things have been progressively dumbed down and simplified since then.
GTR EVO was the first step backwards, and I never felt bothered to try any other racing sim since. iRacing seems good enough but that is strictly online only, running on someone else's schedule and dealing with others on the track who frankly have no business driving anything. Driving against a competent, well-tuned AI is far more immersive, and realistic for that matter.

People underestimate how good the AI was on gtr2. If ACC is planning to recapture some of that immersion then they need to do a better job than their current AI.

 

[wide2tele]

I don't think it's just racing sims that have gone backwards, it's most games. Today they just replicate what was already done in the past except it's usually half as good with half the amount of features of a similar game from years ago and at least twice the amount of bugs. GTR2 is great and if you want some fantastic AI racing, F1 Challenge 99-02 is top shelf as well. I happily sacrifice graphics for some decent sim racing and great game customization options.

 

[TzZyO]

The OP is 100% spot-on.
The same could be said for other sim genres, especially flight sims. Sadly, it seems that simming peaked 10-15 years ago, and while prettier to look at today, things have been progressively dumbed down and simplified since then.
GTR EVO was the first step backwards, and I never felt bothered to try any other racing sim since. iRacing seems good enough but that is strictly online only, running on someone else's schedule and dealing with others on the track who frankly have no business driving anything. Driving against a competent, well-tuned AI is far more immersive, and realistic for that matter.

"Simming peaked 10-15 years ago"? "Especially flight sims"? "Dumbed down"? If modules like DCS Hornet and Viggen are "dumbed down", I'm really curious about what kind of a 15 yo sim you can offer that is "ok" in your opinion.

 

[wide2tele]

"Simming peaked 10-15 years ago"? "Especially flight sims"? "Dumbed down"? If modules like DCS Hornet and Viggen are "dumbed down", I'm really curious about what kind of a 15 yo sim you can offer that is "ok" in your opinion.

I think he was likely talking about more mainstream flight sims. I kinda tend to agree with him, not the dumbed down remark though. I use FS2004 because the alternatives don't offer me enough to make me want to switch. I'm using a 15 year old flight sim for no other reason other than I believe it is still the best option today.

 

[TzZyO]

I think he was likely talking about more mainstream flight sims. I kinda tend to agree with him, not the dumbed down remark though. I use FS2004 because the alternatives don't offer me enough to make me want to switch. I'm using a 15 year old flight sim for no other reason other than I believe it is still the best option today.

Except it can hardly qualify as a sim in the flight dynamics department, which, for the moment, is the most important part of a flight sim, not how well ATC is modeled. Otherwise it would be an ATC interaction sim.

Edit: Same with the modern racing sims. People seem to forget that it's the tire physics and the overall car dynamics that should matter, not how well the flag rules are implemented or if the game has animated lollipop men. If someone is more interested otherwise, I suspect they can hardly be qualified as a simmer. So, the title of the thread should be more like "Why are modern driving games are quite sloppy and unpolished?" But that seems to be a problem with almost anything these days. Probably because of the sheer complexity of the modern projects and the inherent limitations of human beings (and the tendency of the newer human beings to have a shorter attention span).

 

[wide2tele]

(and the tendency of the newer human beings to have a shorter attention span).

lol probably quite a few new humans on this forum.
I understand your points but the other aspects are also important. No point having dead accurate car physics if there is no AI, no competitions to race in, no weather to change and all we can do is sit in a parking lot and say "Hey, this thing does doughnuts just like a real car!"
We'd quickly get bored so you have to accept the compromise. Same with flight sim, you still want airports to land at, you still want to see a world under you. These things are all part of the reality just as much as flying or driving but it can be suggested such elements do deserve less attention.

I think we are pretty much on the same page. Probably both frustrated with where we think cars and planes could be if given a little more attention to getting things right by developers. Then again, in 2018 it's all about $$$ so I don't see much changing anytime soon unfortunately.