GTR2: Why are Modern Sims Still Not as Good?

[Paul Jeffrey]

GTR2 is 11 years old, features a series that no longer exists and was developed for technology less advanced than a modern smart phone. Unbelievably it's still one of the best sims available today.

What I want to know is why? Why in the last 10 + years have some of the many awesome features found in this now long forgotten game not made their way into something more modern? Ok granted many different games feature some of the bits in GTR2, but no single title has taken what was already an incredible base and expanded upon it with the aid of much advanced technology we now have at our disposal.

Driving School? Check
Fully animated pit workers? Check
Animated flag marshals? Check
Day - night transition? Check
Weather cycle? Check
Full official series licence, over two separate seasons? Check
...and the list goes on and on...

Simply put GTR2 was massively overdeveloped, period. SimBin Studios quite literally took every single aspect of the then premier GT racing series in the world and recreated it all into a compelling racing experience that still stands out as a top simulation even by the standards of today, 11 years after the game hit our shelves.

I just find it all incredibility bizarre. In very few industries outside of sim racing will you see a decline in product quality and content as the years progress like we have to put up with today. When GTR2 first shipped in September 2006 the game was a complete package, not splattered with ridiculous bugs that prevented anyone having a good time, not bombarded by wave after wave of disparate DLC content with little or no relevance to the main experience and not hanging on by the merest thread for dear life as another iteration of something that's been released by someone else already. It really was a golden time for sim racing fans, and those who witnessed it all first hand really did think this would be the beginning of something big in sim racing.

Fast forward to 2017 and sadly the progress expected post GTR2 has quite simply not materialised. The game, the official simulation of the FIA GT World Championship, was probably the very last fully feature complete racing simulation we have seen in our niche genre. We've had loads of new games since then, some of which have even been released by the same people responsible for GTR and GTR2, but none have even come close to matching the level of features and polish afforded fans back in 2006. It's down right strange.

Take RaceRoom Racing Experience for example, developed as the next GT game from the people behind GTR and GTR2, when the title first hit public beta stage back in February 2013 what did we have? Basically a hotlapping simulation with limited content, no official series licence, no AI to race against and precisely zero multiplayer features. Added to the still missing animated flag marshals and a range of other GTR2 items that haven't made the move over with time, it's all rather a depressing scene in which to take in.

Ok I appreciate Sector3 have worked exceptionally hard at improving RaceRoom to get to a level where it is barely recognisable now to what it looked like on launch day, but still to even consider releasing a game that was basically stripped of everything that made GTR2 great is simply mind boggling.

And it's not just RaceRoom that are guilty of missing out some key features considered par for the course 11 years ago, everyone is doing it! You only have to look at one of the most popular sims on the market Assetto Corsa as a perfect example, they consider themselves to be perfectionists on a mission to produce the most true to life experience possible, and they even miss out the core basics like weather and day to night transition, never mind such "nice to have" features like a driving school, proper flag implementation and multiclass racing options. It's simply amazing to realise that these features quite simply only exist in a game that was designed and released over a decade ago. Unbelievable.

GTR2 still looks pretty good on top graphics settings, still feels very nice indeed with my trusty CSW V2 and still sounds like it belongs in the very top tier of audio experience. All that whilst replicating a seriously mega international championship in a exceptionally detailed simulation that really does pick out all the little features that makes driving on a virtual track feel like the real thing. With that said and the pretty compelling physics considering the age of the title added up with stuff that no other sim has all together in one package, this is why I still believe GTR2 is, without reservation, the very best simulation racing experience one can purchase during 2017.

I love the game, it's just a bit sad that no one has thought to try and make something similar in the following 132 months since it was released.

GTR was released by SimBin Studios exclusively for PC. The game is still available to purchase on Steam for £4.99.

Like GTR2? Well lucky you, we are seriously considering a brand new informal league! Check out the GTR2 sub forum for general GTR2 discussion or our new GTR2 RDGT Championship forum for more details of the new league season. To prepare for the league all we ask is you have Premium membership, a fresh GTR2 install and these two additional patches HERE and HERE. Get ready for a return of the legend....

Do you still enjoy GTR2? What did the sim do right in your opinion? Why do features present in GTR2 still not appear in moderns sims? Let us know in the comments section below!

 

[Shovas]

Agreed, I'm just bored again and forum trolling. However, I'm mostly mad at myself for supporting R3E as much as I did in hopes that it would progress like AC did.

You're not the only one making bad choices about R3E. A previous poster mentioned recent games are becoming 'disasters' of out-of-sync cars and tracks with mismatched old/new physics/ffb/tire models.

I put a lot of money into R3E just trying to be a good guy supporting a good company but the way they just let old content deteriorate under old physics/tire models is brutal. So much good content in R3E isn't enjoyable because they won't update it.

And now they're talking about GTR3. Even if it's good, I will not be considering it immediately unless they make it free or with a great deal for loyal R3E supporters. Once bitten twice shy, I guess.

Bringing this back on-topic, though, I say this because I agree with some of those posts here: We've given too much money without really knowing what we're getting.

Interesting counter-example, I wasn't burned by iRacing even though it is both subscription and DLC based. Maybe it's the subscription expense that forced me to wait before buying more. Given time in the sim I became comfortable with the quality level and consistency so as time goes on I find myself buying in more.

Something for devs to think about: How to produce quality content and keep it up to date.

 

[Durge Driven]

I like the days when sims were all on shelves, all offered unique content and barely a patch to be seen

 

[HypoToad]

Whats not to like about this game, there are some nice mods for it, tracks from all around the world even obscure ones, cars out the yazoo, great custom upgraded graphics, and it runs on low level PC's. Running it in 1080P I think the tracks look better than in AC in 1080P, it loads fast too, just a few seconds.

 

[Shovas]

I just came across this post today and it really enlightened me to the history of where GTR2 actually came from and why it feels like PCars is the true spiritual successor of GTR2.

GTR2 as a Bargaining Tool

Hopefully PCars2 actually gets it right.

 

[HypoToad]

I have PCars, AC and GTR2, and my go to racing game is GTR2, of course there are some things I feel are better in PCars like all the sector timings, and in AC like the tyre temps, but overall I just love GTR2, I have fine tuned the FFB settings now it's amazing.

 

[kamackeris]

I have PCars, AC and GTR2, and my go to racing game is GTR2, of course there are some things I feel are better in PCars like all the sector timings, and in AC like the tyre temps, but overall I just love GTR2, I have fine tuned the FFB settings now it's amazing.

Could you share your settings? What have you done nodding wise to get to this?

 

[HypoToad]

Could you share your settings? What have you done nodding wise to get to this?

I have a Driving Force GT wheel but it will work on G25/G27 I should think, so read this thread and my post at the bottom about "FFB steer force average weight" adjustment.

Driving Force GT (and G25) FFB settings suggestion

As for mods themselves I use:

GTR2 UI MOD -- INSTALLER VERSION 1.1 by Duckfreak - makes a huge difference, look in Mods for GTR2 on here.
GTR2MapPlugin 108 and XD V214 - http://www.nogripracing.com/details.php?filenr=26690
New tachometer in hud by 3131 - http://www.nogripracing.com/details.php?filenr=39278

As well as upgraded cars / tracks / skins, there are tons of them, there are some nice cars here:
http://gtr2-endurance.forumotion.org/c1-gtr2-mods-tracks

Hope this helps.

 

[kamackeris]

I have a Driving Force GT wheel but it will work on G25/G27 I should think, so read this thread and my post at the bottom about "FFB steer force average weight" adjustment.

Driving Force GT (and G25) FFB settings suggestion

As for mods themselves I use:

GTR2 UI MOD -- INSTALLER VERSION 1.1 by Duckfreak - makes a huge difference, look in Mods for GTR2 on here.
GTR2MapPlugin 108 and XD V214 - http://www.nogripracing.com/details.php?filenr=26690
New tachometer in hud by 3131 - http://www.nogripracing.com/details.php?filenr=39278

As well as upgraded cars / tracks / skins, there are tons of them, there are some nice cars here:
http://gtr2-endurance.forumotion.org/c1-gtr2-mods-tracks

Hope this helps.

Thanks man.... I have used an ai mod I have seen a few years back but I couldn't get the game running right to start with. It was meant to have improved the ai.. Have you seen it/used it?

 

[Shovas]

What a surprising gem of a game. I was tired of iRacing a few months ago and decided to give GTR2 a try. I put in a lot of time and had a lot of fun with it. Then I got into AMS and RF2 and were really enjoying the excellent FFB I wasn't able to achieve in GTR2. I got back into iRacing, as well, but now I've picked up where I left off with GTR2 and, taking some friction/dampening hints from IR/AMS/RF2, I've improved my GTR2 FFB even further and it's to the point where there are occasions were just the FFB response puts a grin on my face knowing it's doing the right thing in the right scenario, just like all those other games. Could be more informative, for sure, but I think that's down to lack of detail in the track ffb mesh not the ffb implementation.

I'm so impressed a game this old is still able to hold its own.

 

[Stephen O'Sullivan]

Have you tried installing GTR2 Essentials, Parts 1 & 2? It's a collection of mods that update many aspects of the sim. You'll find it at nogripracing.com.

 

[kamackeris]

Have you tried installing GTR2 Essentials, Parts 1 & 2? It's a collection of mods that update many aspects of the sim. You'll find it at nogripracing.com.

ooohh....gonna have to check that out

 

[Amanda]

A small comparison of how ISI technology evolved since the days of GTR2.

I know GTR2 uses a modified engine, but the majority of the code is still ISI's. In fact, some call GTR/GTR2/GTL/Race07 "rFactor with new cars". Unfortunately I cannot use rFactor 1 as I don't own it.

To me, GTR2 still feels more like a complete package than rFactor 2 for several reasons, even after all these years. Not only that, but it also feels more polished.

Would you like to see rain, night, and other cars/tracks compared as well?

 

[Shovas]

Would you like to see rain, night, and other cars/tracks compared as well?

Nice side-by-side. I was hoping for a little more technical detail. Perhaps you could point out the things around the track that are different/improved like road surface textures, road rubbering, track-side objects, sky textures, track ffb meshes, how rain or day/night cycle has changed/improved, etc.

 

[Amanda]

Nice side-by-side. I was hoping for a little more technical detail. Perhaps you could point out the things around the track that are different/improved like road surface textures, road rubbering, track-side objects, sky textures, track ffb meshes, how rain or day/night cycle has changed/improved, etc.

I sure plan to do that
Im just waiting for my mic to arrive.

 

[DucFreak]

A small comparison of how ISI technology evolved since the days of GTR2.

I know GTR2 uses a modified engine, but still the majority of the code is still ISI's. In fact, some call GTR/GTR2/GTL/Race07 "rFactor with a new cars". Unfortunately I cannot use rFactor 1 as I don't own it.

Yes, that would be right and wrong at the same time.
Right, in the sense that GTR2 does use code that is ISI's, pratically the same as RF1.
Wrong, in the sense that Blimey/Simbin made so many tweaks and changes from ISI's base (i.e, what you have in RF1) that, as little as some are, it became a different game. For example, in the graphics department GTR2 does look noticeably different (and better).

Still in the graphics, and among other differences/improvements, GTR2 has:
- much better skyboxes (skies in RF1 look like a flat dome, cartoony).
- much better lighting and color palettes (RF1 always suffered from awfull blue-ish levels).
- secondary (static) under-car shadow, for better depth and realism (unexistent in RF1, looks cartoony).
- the obvious presence of dynamic weather related effects (unexistent in RF1, dry weather only).

Actually, and overall, I'd say that the only thing that GTR2 really misses (still) is better shader effects and working wipers (for the rain). Otherwise, it'd be pretty much perfect.

Of course, RF1 has seen hundreds and hundreds of mods through the years, so its notorious graphics shortcomings may have been reduced (or nulled). But what you have to put in context is the way that GTR2 came at release - it was this good in stock, vanilla form, back in 2006. And itself has seen some improvements from the modding community.

To me, GTR2 still feels more like a complete package than rFactor 2 for several reasons, even after all these years. Not only that, but it also feels more polished.

Yep! A lot of us have been saying this for years, not just in relation to RF2 but to all newer racing-sims.
When compared directly, you can (and will) find improvements here and there in every single one of the new racing-sim games, but the issue is when judging them as a whole package. They all fail there.
It's been 11 years (as of today) and we're still yet to see a newer racing-sim game surpass GTR2 if judging the whole package qualities.
The thing is, people always want newer tech and prettier/shinier things (nothing wrong with that) but, as we've been seeing, sometimes that comes to the detriment of other important things.

Let the nay-sayers and the younger crowd say that people around GTR2 have only "nostalgic reasons" (*putz* ...ya, whatever...). GTR2 may be old, but it's that good kind of old, like you also see in other older racing-sim games such as GPL, NR2003 and GP4. It'll still have a community around it even when the current trendy games become totally discarded.

 

[Amanda]

Thanks for the lesson, @DucFreak

 

[Jempy]

"Since GTR2 doesn't offer track/air temperature changes" in your video, Amarildojr .... is basicly true.
But there's a remedy for that .... using a tool as "Autosim Weather generator" allows it.
With it you may create the weather you need with the temperature you decide.

It may even be adapted for GTR Evolution - Race 07 .... we used it for a championship at our previous league.

There's another tool, I think, but never used it.

 

[Shovas]

I wish the dynamic weather system could somehow be fixed. The Changing Weather Patch mod is nice but possibly iffy stability in my experience.

 

[HypoToad]

The thing is, people always want newer tech and prettier/shinier things (nothing wrong with that) but, as we've been seeing, sometimes that comes to the detriment of other important things.

I agree as much as the pretty graphics in PC or the feel of AC is alluring, it's just the overall sense of real speed that keeps bringing me back to GTR2, I have modded and customized the sh*t out of it, if I had to choose just one car game this would be it.

 

[Mark Reynolds]

Race provided everything GTR2 provides, just without the cohesive package, and also fixed some of the shortcomings of GTR2, I have the source code for GTR2 still sat right here, the temptation to go in and modernise it is strong, not legal tho

I still play GTR2 semi regular and still get a ton of enjoyment from it.