AC GT3 @ VIR - Sunday 14th February 2021

Assetto Corsa Racing Club event
My VR onboard:

@Chris Down

I noticed in the replay that I am always a gear down on you on slow corner apexes and the fast exits. Trying your way stabilises the car and reduces exit understeer a lot no matter what the setup. I also went 0.5 sec faster - I am sure I can do better. I was using the LED's as a guide for which gears to use, but I noticed that you don't always - e.g. exit of the esses and the left hander you did in 6th and I was in 3rd there ... which is an amazing difference,

Is this because on a big circuit we are interested in keeping as much power (high speed everywhere) as possible as opposed to acceleration ? For some reason I was thinking "max torque, max torque, max torque !" which is harder to drive and eats up the tyres and fuel.

I just cannot get rid of exit understeer - if I try to adjust the rear springs, it helps in flat corners but in one's where the exit has a gradient, the car spins out under hard braking. Messing around with the arb's produces the most confusing results...I was running more or less the default setup but it really made me suffer with understeer .

Thank you for posting the video, I appreciated a new approach.
 
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@Chris Down

I noticed in the replay that I am always a gear down on you on slow corner apexes and the fast exits. Trying your way stabilises the car and reduces exit understeer a lot no matter what the setup. I was using the LED's as a guide for which gears to use, but I noticed that you don't always - e.g. exit of the esses and the left hander you did in 6th and I was in 3rd there ... which is an amazing difference,

Is this because on a big circuit we are interested in keeping as much power (high speed everywhere) as possible as opposed to acceleration ? For some reason I was thinking "max torque, max torque, max torque !" which is harder to drive and eats up the tyres and fuel.

When the limiting factor for a corner is grip (as opposed to aero, for example), it becomes especially important to consider that there's only a limited amount of lateral and longitudinal grip available. Staying in a higher gear in some corners allows more grip to be used for lateral grip, at the expense of less traction.

You'll notice that I often actually do exactly the opposite in T5/T6 -- overload the longitudinal grip by using a low gear to get the best slip angle for the corner. It's actually not for traction, but instead for rotation. It kills the tyres though.

Torque is all well and good, but only if the tyres can actually transmit it to the road without other negative effects :)

Wikipedia has a pretty good article on that: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Circle_of_forces

I just cannot get rid of exit understeer - if I try to adjust the rear springs, it helps in flat corners but in one's where the exit has a gradient, the car spins out under hard braking. Messing around with the arb's produces the most confusing results...I was running more or less the default setup but it really made me suffer with understeer .

My recommendation is to focus on one setup item at a time. Find a setup which you find compliant and reasonably fast (as opposed to maximum optimisation for speed) and tweak one thing at a time from there.

For exit understeer in slow corners (like T12 for example), raising the rear can help, but it will certainly make the car more edgy. Personally, I don't find it a great tradeoff for VIR.
 
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Had a really fun race driving the only 911 in the field. It's a fun car to drive, but it's nearly impossible to recover from little mishaps with throttle and steering inputs. And the times that happened to me in practice sessions, rear tires heated up so much, the car would easily spin for almost a full lap until the cool down (without spinning, which is again, nearly impossible lol). So as much as I like a stable car like the R8 and Z4, think I'll get some more use out of the 911 to help build my consistency, because I need some work in that area lol. I suppose I can learn to play with suspension to help stabilize the car better. But I always tend to continue to make minor common adjustments and spend more time on track. I usually have to slightly and briefly left on some corner exits where I know others go flat out. Probably my driving style, but I guess a suspension tweak might help too. In setup, I usually only tweak tire pressures, onboard TC/ABS, wing, and brake bias. The times I would tweak suspension, it never feel right and I go back to my basic setup lol.

I really wanted to peak at a high 1:35 in qualy but made too many mistakes. P13 it was meant to be then.
Had a really really good start of the race! Then shortly after about the 3rd or 4th lap, I completely missed my breaking point while on the defensive line and lost a couple spots going into turn 1. Didn't lock up too much and never spun, so the tires where still good. That was my only major incident, and had some good battles and tried to stay out the way of the faster guys. Finished the race on some old but some how very manageable 60 minute + tires in P9 and only pit for 3 liters of fuel.

Damn, Chris, seen your onboard and feel bad for that incident. But you managed to recover alright lol. I've gotta learn to slide the car but under control and smooth like you fast guys lol

Congrats to @Chris Down and the podiums and thanks Chris for hosting! Thanks everyone for coming out!

Below is my onboard

 
Thanks Chris as always and congrats to the podium :thumbsup:

You know what's more important than sticking with the same car? Sticking with the same rig :) Did the race yesterday from a different rig as I'm currently not at home. With not much time of practice too, it still was a decent race on this tricky circuit. Took me the first half of the race to get used to the new wheel and pedals but from then on it was ok. Could manage to overtake Dean and Thomas for P6 I guess. In the last lap, my brother stumbeld over my professional laid cables and disconnected the wheel. That teleported me into the pits and it was game over. I think that's the real life equivalent to mechanical failure ;)

Especially I'd like to invite the new guys because most of the combo's are not as intens as the GT3 events. Most of the used cars are easier to drive and have far less setup options.
Group C :whistling: . Really looking forward to the upcoming Monday and Wednesday events. Hopefully they will draw enough participants
 
[QUOTE="640er, post: 3343180, member: 928982"

Group C :whistling: . Really looking forward to the upcoming Monday and Wednesday events. Hopefully they will draw enough participants
[/QUOTE]
Group C: Well, I did say: most of the cars, not all :p :D
 
Had a really fun race driving the only 911 in the field. It's a fun car to drive, but it's nearly impossible to recover from little mishaps with throttle and steering inputs. And the times that happened to me in practice sessions, rear tires heated up so much, the car would easily spin for almost a full lap until the cool down (without spinning, which is again, nearly impossible lol). So as much as I like a stable car like the R8 and Z4, think I'll get some more use out of the 911 to help build my consistency, because I need some work in that area lol. I suppose I can learn to play with suspension to help stabilize the car better. But I always tend to continue to make minor common adjustments and spend more time on track. I usually have to slightly and briefly left on some corner exits where I know others go flat out. Probably my driving style, but I guess a suspension tweak might help too. In setup, I usually only tweak tire pressures, onboard TC/ABS, wing, and brake bias. The times I would tweak suspension, it never feel right and I go back to my basic setup lol.

I really wanted to peak at a high 1:35 in qualy but made too many mistakes. P13 it was meant to be then.
Had a really really good start of the race! Then shortly after about the 3rd or 4th lap, I completely missed my breaking point while on the defensive line and lost a couple spots going into turn 1. Didn't lock up too much and never spun, so the tires where still good. That was my only major incident, and had some good battles and tried to stay out the way of the faster guys. Finished the race on some old but some how very manageable 60 minute + tires in P9 and only pit for 3 liters of fuel.

Damn, Chris, seen your onboard and feel bad for that incident. But you managed to recover alright lol. I've gotta learn to slide the car but under control and smooth like you fast guys lol

Congrats to @Chris Down and the podiums and thanks Chris for hosting! Thanks everyone for coming out!

Below is my onboard

You did the whole race with the 911 on one set of tyres ??:confused: :confused: :confused: That's impressive! :thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup:
 
Dont know whats going on with my pace recently. I managed not to get taken out in this race but kept binning it all by myself.

Can I ask that people refrain from discussing the race until EVERYONE is finished the race? It seems the top drives will immediately start discussing the race once they've crossed the line with little regard to those who may still be battling for positions for the next couple of minutes. We (mostly) try to ensure you guys get by without incident, could you return the favour by keeping quiet for an additional couple of minutes please?
 
@SOLO59

Love the rig, what external screens are you running, and what do u use to run them.
Like it very much. I like the way you keep your main screen clear.

Your as bad as Enzo for your wiring neatness.:roflmao::roflmao:

328E0CFA-8EA4-4FD9-A0AB-8650BF572AA1.jpeg:unsure:
 
Yes it is this track with the car trapping tyre walls.
Practicing all week and never got trapped in a tyre wall once, then on lap 6 and I was holding my own with everyone on softs too, then bam, caught in the tyre wall/trap before the pit entry and the wall would not let me go so teleporting to pits was the way out.
Ergh
 
Dont know whats going on with my pace recently. I managed not to get taken out in this race but kept binning it all by myself.

Can I ask that people refrain from discussing the race until EVERYONE is finished the race? It seems the top drives will immediately start discussing the race once they've crossed the line with little regard to those who may still be battling for positions for the next couple of minutes. We (mostly) try to ensure you guys get by without incident, could you return the favour by keeping quiet for an additional couple of minutes please?

Huh, apologies if that was me. I usually try to wait 2 minutes after the race before starting talking (and I'm usually the one telling others to be quiet until then!) but I could have misjudged, my apologies.
 
When the limiting factor for a corner is grip (as opposed to aero, for example), it becomes especially important to consider that there's only a limited amount of lateral and longitudinal grip available. Staying in a higher gear in some corners allows more grip to be used for lateral grip, at the expense of less traction.

You'll notice that I often actually do exactly the opposite in T5/T6 -- overload the longitudinal grip by using a low gear to get the best slip angle for the corner. It's actually not for traction, but instead for rotation. It kills the tyres though.

Torque is all well and good, but only if the tyres can actually transmit it to the road without other negative effects :)

Wikipedia has a pretty good article on that: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Circle_of_forces



My recommendation is to focus on one setup item at a time. Find a setup which you find compliant and reasonably fast (as opposed to maximum optimisation for speed) and tweak one thing at a time from there.

For exit understeer in slow corners (like T12 for example), raising the rear can help, but it will certainly make the car more edgy. Personally, I don't find it a great tradeoff for VIR.

@Chris Down Now Chris this is a generous, much needed and a fantastic answer - and I thank you sincerely for it.

I understand these things like "slip angle" in terms of brute physics, but alas I have no practical understanding about them, I never have had. What you explained helps me a lot to take a stronger step in that direction.

When it comes to understanding racing lines and stuff like that I think I am pretty uneducated in present company. It feels like I can understand, but the understanding is just slightly out of my reach, like a bird flying just outside your window, you can see him/her, but you can't touch it. So I try to use slip angle through keeping a drift in corner entry without going outside of the pneumatic range. But then that is not all ! I forgot about what engine was doing to the tyres ! The worst realization here is that the wheels must be spinning like crazy, killing traction and I don't realize it ....

I have always driven by holding the throttle flat, and it has come as a painful realization (again connected to slip-angle) that in order to go quickly you need to lift. And it hurts so much to lift off the throttle, as it does to be overtaken - something I am working on. When push comes to shove in a race I find myself trying to go flat out instead of trying to look at the principles, which become just meaningless numbers on a page.

I worked hard in the race and was very pleased with my tenacity and the results, but the disease of braking late, too much throttle kept throwing me off the track which was quite disappointing. When I saw how calmly you drive the lap, 7 secs faster than my best one, it sort of shows me that what I believe is wrong, tyres instead of throttle, are the key.

I love this racing series, it is so fast, the simulator is brilliant (just added sol 2, csp and Ilja's rain physics patch as well), the drivers are brilliant and very professional, the tracks, the cars and the know how is second to none. I would like to thank everyone for making this such a great experience.

How lucky we are to have this.

Thanks again Chris :)

I can't wait till the next one.
 
I have always driven by holding the throttle flat, and it has come as a painful realization (again connected to slip-angle) that in order to go quickly you need to lift. And it hurts so much to lift off the throttle, as it does to be overtaken - something I am working on. When push comes to shove in a race I find myself trying to go flat out instead of trying to look at the principles, which become just meaningless numbers on a page.

I worked hard in the race and was very pleased with my tenacity and the results, but the disease of braking late, too much throttle kept throwing me off the track which was quite disappointing. When I saw how calmly you drive the lap, 7 secs faster than my best one, it sort of shows me that what I believe is wrong, tyres instead of throttle, are the key.

If you need encouragement to "do the right thing" during a race, I encourage you to put a lap delta on your screen somewhere :) When you become more willing to get off the accelerator you'll clearly see the effect on lap times as you're actually doing it -- maybe that will help incentivise the right things.
 
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If you need encouragement to "do the right thing" during a race, I encourage you to put a lap delta on your screen somewhere :) When you become more willing to get off the accelerator you'll clearly see the effect on lap times as you're actually doing it -- maybe that will help incentivise the right things.

I will integrate all of your above advice, step by step, into my training - thank you also for the article on Wikipedia. And I really thank you for the advice which means a lot to me. I'll try and drive VIR again with this new knowledge - I did notice that the exit to T6 was vital to a good time and we sacrificed T5 to get that. I jumped over the curbs, but was lifting massively instead of rotating the machine with throttle because I am afraid to spin it. The worst turn in the world for me was T12 - understeer-city. Again I noticed you V the racing line there. I thought that was a way to do it, but I had no courage to try it in case it was slower (see what I mean about no practical knowledge?).
 
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I will integrate all of your above advice, step by step, into my training - thank you also for the article on Wikipedia. And I really thank you for the advice which means a lot to me.
Tonights race with the Escort is a good exercise on tyres vs throttle! Plenty of room for overtakes so don't worry about blue flag situations.
It's not easy to go through the turns without drifting but unlike with the GT3's it's more feasable to keep the Escort on track when it happens. You only loose time but drifting can be fun also.

The car doesn't have ABS so it's also a good exercise for braking.
The Escort has limited options for the setup so again it's a good car for getting to learn what changes to the setup will do with the car handling.
 
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Huh, apologies if that was me. I usually try to wait 2 minutes after the race before starting talking (and I'm usually the one telling others to be quiet until then!) but I could have misjudged, my apologies.
A bit off topic waffling:
I remember a Nordschleife race where I was the last one not being lapped. Geez I was probably the last one on the server when I finished :roflmao: :roflmao: :roflmao:

In zandvoort I couldn't finish and ended up with +1 lap due to the overtime being too short.

Which brings me to an actual on-topic point:
I'm not sure but could you adjust the overtime for races? I'd like to have it a bit longer!

1. For everyone to be able to finish their final lap

2. AC likes to screw up result and replay files when being forced back into the pits after the race.
So I always try to make sure to stop making donuts before this happens. But I'd love to have some more 5 minutes of donuts even when I finished the race (time related) last :p

I know in qualy it can become annoying. We once had the overtime config from the Nordschleife for a normal track and someone went afk while on track and after 6 minutes of everyone wanting to go into race session, we forced it via admin command :whistling:
 

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