AC GT3 @ Road Atlanta, Sunday 21st March 2021

[demetri]

I found this in the replay. Somewhat similar situation, a Z4 defending (and succeeding) against a mighty Godzilla:

Z4 defending

Watch "Z4 defending" on Streamable.

streamable.com

That guy was from Thai and had ping of 200, so his inputs must have been even further delayed on my replay compared to Stefan's. Even with all that, he appeared as braking earlier, at lower speed, his line was further to the right and yet he barely made it into that corner as seen on the video above.

You can see the dashed line before 100 m sign:

Look Ma, no dashed line:

@RobertR1 is absolutely right. Using backmarkers as a block to prevent being overtaken is a part of the racecraft. It's not like Rasmus did something like this, which is a no-no in my book:

Oh shit

Watch "Oh ****" on Streamable.

streamable.com

 

[demetri]

I just guess the braking points on a circuit for the vast majority of corners, can never find anything on the track for a reference.

PS..
The Ford Transit van ( WED 24th March ) on the Nordschleife - Endurance 108 is SOOOOO slow, I am really struggling to get under 10 minutes.

Jimmer did 10:36 on the Tourist layout back when he tried it a few years ago, and he's generally not a slow guy, one of the fastest among them youtubers. He upshifted at 3K RPM though, maybe that's too early, the power curve shown in the car info makes me think that 3500-3600 would be a better point.

 

[random2k4]

OK my last statement on that. I never said there was any problem with Rasmus or his driving style. Dont know why it got brought up. Even if you trying to constantly nit pick on a maybe slightly delayed braking point wouldnt change the point that there is a car stopping on the race track. I would maybe miss the apex and would have a bad exit, it wouldnt end the race for me there.

My point was that there are more suitable spots for letting a group of cars pass, then right before a corner. Cause the time to react after you realize, while you are in a battle with someone else, is only a fraction of a second. I know its quite easy to look at this situation as an out side viewer knowing something is gonna happen. So you are already focused on totally different things. But during the race its a totally different situation.

I showed the clipped scene without saying anything to other people to get a second opinion and another view on this. All said, the defending was agressiv but OK and the Lambo just cant be that slow in front of the corner and stopping on track. And the moment you realized that its to late.

So you have your opinions I have mine, they are different and thats totally fine. Yes the rhyme is intended.

So again see you all next week for a new race.

 

[demetri]

probably meters - yes if that shot is from the race I was being safe because I am loaded with fuel (look how crappy my line is - my hands were shaking because I had a massive toothache and I couldn't safely keep the car at the edge with that much fuel), I guarantee you you can brake at 150 of said units though - not easy but if a guy was chasing I was doing that. Problem is tyres - in the race its detrimental to brake so late. In practice, 150 is early for a great laptime (at least at my current level). There are so many unexpected worries when in a race its amazing.

Edit: PS I am in general agreement with your analysis, he missed the braking point under race conditions.

I was also using that shadow at ~150 of whatever as my brake marker, but the thing is that when you think you're braking at that shadow you're really braking closer to 200 sign.

Here's you braking on your best quali lap. It is about the same spot as on the overhead screenshot from the race I posted yesterday. Perception is deceptive, especially when you're going at 160 mph

 

[640er]

@RobertR1 is absolutely right. Using backmarkers as a block to prevent being overtaken is a part of the racecraft. It's not like Rasmus did something like this, which is a no-no in my book:

Yep those overtake are the best ones Patrick was sleeping at race start and didn't get off the line at all. This forced @HF2000, who started behind him, to evade him in some way. As we were at the left side of the track, the only way around Patrick was going to the right. The problem was, I, who started behind Han, was already beside him and giving him no room to get past Patrick. That was an easy and in the end important overtake for me.

 

[640er]

I was also using that shadow at ~150 of whatever as my brake marker, but the thing is that when you think you're braking at that shadow you're really braking closer to 200 sign.

Yeah using shadows as break markers is great and fun until you play ACC for the first time where time moves on and shadows wander... Had to learn it the hard way

 

[RasmusP]

Yeah using shadows as break markers is great and fun until you play ACC for the first time where time moves on and shadows wander... Had to learn it the hard way

I died inside during a Monza race that transitioned into the night

 

[demetri]

OK my last statement on that. I never said there was any problem with Rasmus or his driving style. Dont know why it got brought up. Even if you trying to constantly nit pick on a maybe slightly delayed braking point wouldnt change the point that there is a car stopping on the race track. I would maybe miss the apex and would have a bad exit, it wouldnt end the race for me there.

My point was that there are more suitable spots for letting a group of cars pass, then right before a corner. Cause the time to react after you realize, while you are in a battle with someone else, is only a fraction of a second. I know its quite easy to look at this situation as an out side viewer knowing something is gonna happen. So you are already focused on totally different things. But during the race its a totally different situation.

I showed the clipped scene without saying anything to other people to get a second opinion and another view on this. All said, the defending was agressiv but OK and the Lambo just cant be that slow in front of the corner and stopping on track. And the moment you realized that its to late.

So you have your opinions I have mine, they are different and thats totally fine. Yes the rhyme is intended.

So again see you all next week for a new race.

I suggest you to watch the replay from Taj's view. He was going slow to let the first pack of three cars to lap him. When they did and he was approaching the chicane he found himself in a hard place with 3 more cars (your group) rapidly incoming and no time to get up to speed, so he did what he thought was the best at that time, moved away from the racing line to the left edge of the track, so that nobody's line into the chicane would be compromised. How was he supposed to anticipate that you would decide to go there?

I'd say he probably shouldn't be going that slow for that first group and should've let them pass later, on the start straight, but he probably wasn't sure of his pace and didn't want to hinder them in any way, so I understand why he did that. These kind of things will always happen when you have such a big spread of pace like we do in these club races (5 seconds for an 80-second lap), so it's your job as a better driver to adopt to that and expect the unexpected.

 

[demetri]

Yeah using shadows as break markers is great and fun until you play ACC for the first time where time moves on and shadows wander... Had to learn it the hard way

They move in AC as well. That shadow disappeared from the tarmac by the last third or quarter of the race, but you could still spot in on the grass, though it was hard to do in VR.

 

[RasmusP]

Thanks to the brake marker discussion I now know why I love this track so much:
I don't have any real marker or anything I knowingly look at.
I must push while being in the flow zone.
And my times are pretty consistent, so it seems to work

 

[RobertR1]

@demetri I'll try your setup next week when I wrap up my current league. Should I use the race one you posted? I'll probably match the conditions to what I ran at RA a month ago as I'm too lazy to redo both. They will be slower than 20/26c and 1x you guys ran but should be interesting perspective. I was having to manage the LR even on a single lap but we'll see if yours is better for keeping temps down and i can push throughout.

 

[demetri]

@demetri I'll try your setup in a couple of next week when I wrap up my current league. Should I use the race one you posted? I'll probably match the conditions to what I ran at RA a month ago as I'm too lazy to redo both. They will be slower than 20/26c and 1x you guys ran but should be interesting perspective. I was having to manage the LR even on a single lap but we'll see.

Yeah, the race one. The earlier setup I posted was for low temp I used just to beat RSR best time for the combo. And it's not very good, probably too much negative rear toe. I dind't bother to waste too much time on that

At +26C air that you guys use, left rear will probably need some attention as it was already heating up pretty good at +20C, and the for you balance will be different with front tires being closer to optimal temps.

 

[Taj Johal]

It's been interesting to say the least reading the posts today.....

First of all my apologies again for the incident it was most defintely not intentional.

Demetri summed up very well the situation from my point of view (he even grabbed the same screen shots I did last night, I decided not post them until I'd slept on it, handbags in social media is not my thing )

"I suggest you to watch the replay from Taj's view. He was going slow to let the first pack of three cars to lap him. When they did and he was approaching the chicane he found himself in a hard place with 3 more cars (your group) rapidly incoming and no time to get up to speed, so he did what he thought was the best at that time, moved away from the racing line to the left edge of the track, so that nobody's line into the chicane would be compromised. How was he supposed to anticipate that you would decide to go there?"

I didn't like the idea of lifting off after a blind right on a brow, right after the chicane, with three likely to be on full acceleration after the chicane, thought that was a recipe for disater, little did I know.....

So I decided to let all three of you pass before the chicane.
I had assumed you would all be in line one after another, didn't occur to me that you may be racing one another, that was defintely a mistake on my part.

Felt guilty rightly or wrongly about the accident and decided to quit, didn't like the idea of spoiling someone's race.

In conclusion, I think it was a combination of my lack of skill, Rasmus' aggressive but legal defending and your ambitiuous braking and road positioning.

 

[RasmusP]

Felt guilty rightly or wrongly about the accident and decided to quit, didn't like the idea of spoiling someone's race.

 

[640er]

In conclusion, I think it was a combination of my lack of skill, Rasmus' aggressive but legal defending and your ambitiuous braking and road positioning.

In conclusion, racing incident, **** happens Don't give up or quit a race after an error. Every lap after that will make you better. That's part of racing and we need you as equally as those at the top.

 

[sukanpinyo16]

I found this in the replay. Somewhat similar situation, a Z4 defending (and succeeding) against a mighty Godzilla:

Z4 defending

Watch "Z4 defending" on Streamable.

streamable.com

That guy was from Thai and had ping of 200, so his inputs must have been even further delayed on my replay compared to Stefan's. Even with all that, he appeared as braking earlier, at lower speed, his line was further to the right and yet he barely made it into that corner as seen on the video above.

You can see the dashed line before 100 m sign:
View attachment 457313


Look Ma, no dashed line:
View attachment 457314

@RobertR1 is absolutely right. Using backmarkers as a block to prevent being overtaken is a part of the racecraft. It's not like Rasmus did something like this, which is a no-no in my book:

Oh shit

Watch "Oh ****" on Streamable.

streamable.com

Oh this is me;-;

 

[jackdyson31]

I was also using that shadow at ~150 of whatever as my brake marker, but the thing is that when you think you're braking at that shadow you're really braking closer to 200 sign.

Here's you braking on your best quali lap. It is about the same spot as on the overhead screenshot from the race I posted yesterday. Perception is deceptive, especially when you're going at 160 mph

View attachment 457321

Ah right, I suppose also the fact that when I perceive something there is an inevitable delay of about 0.3+ sec before my foot reacts and the brakes come on hard. Thanks a lot for investigating that - I reckon accurate data helps a lot in going quickly and its nice you checking it out. It certainly helps me learn more and I am grateful for that

 

[jackdyson31]

Thanks to the brake marker discussion I now know why I love this track so much:
I don't have any real marker or anything I knowingly look at.
I must push while being in the flow zone.
And my times are pretty consistent, so it seems to work

same here - its so fast there is no time for markers ...

 

[Goblin616]

I seem to struggle with low fuel vs. a full tank. I find it easier to handle the car with the extra weight - and only drive a low fuel car well as the fuel runs down rather than starting with a low-fuel car.

Question to the group: Does anybody else find it difficult to drive a low-fuel car?

 

[Kek700]

No