Things are moving at Codemasters
GRID Autosport GRID Autosport
- Thread starter Bram Hengeveld
- Start date
Tomaz:
Yes, it sounds like GRID2 was an epic fail, from those long time GRID1 players and from new guys, like myself, who are more SIM oriented. But GRID A/S sounds as if it may "straddle the line" as Codemasters is fond of saying, so a touring car series would be perfect to start, since there is really nothing going on here on the xbox 360 with touring cars and those sorts of series' don't require pit stops or have many penalty infractions. Perhaps a hybrid league of Assue, BTCC, WTCC, and Brazil?
For those of us who want to branch off in to, say, IndyCars, we could do that too, interest permitting.
Thanks doe your reply. I'll be sure to stay on top of things as they happen. I have pre-ordered the game myself.
Yes, it sounds like GRID2 was an epic fail, from those long time GRID1 players and from new guys, like myself, who are more SIM oriented. But GRID A/S sounds as if it may "straddle the line" as Codemasters is fond of saying, so a touring car series would be perfect to start, since there is really nothing going on here on the xbox 360 with touring cars and those sorts of series' don't require pit stops or have many penalty infractions. Perhaps a hybrid league of Assue, BTCC, WTCC, and Brazil?
For those of us who want to branch off in to, say, IndyCars, we could do that too, interest permitting.
Thanks doe your reply. I'll be sure to stay on top of things as they happen. I have pre-ordered the game myself.
Today Codemasters revealed a new video showcasing the Endurance racing discipline, one of the five unique styles of racing set to star in the game’s new world of professional motorsport.
In the video, gameplay footage of GRID Autosport’s Endurance racing discipline reveals spectacular sports cars racing into the night in extended events where “you can never win a race on the first corner.” The video also features real-world professional drivers explaining the enduring appeal of the discipline and how to succeed in the sport, including Matt Bell of United Autosports, Aleksander Schjerpen from Century Motorsport and Rory Butcher of the Oman Racing Team / Motorbase Performance who comments, “You’ve got to be quick of course. You’ve got to treat the car well to get to the end of the race. You’ve got to be very consistent over the long distance.”
In GRID Autosport’s Endurance events players must manage tyre wear and race to a strategy in extended races which provide a true test of racing skill, patience and car management. As players race, they must manage their tyres which will lose grip as they break traction or go off track, affecting performance and handling as the race progresses. Players who look after their tyres will be faster towards the end of the race.
In career mode, Endurance events are set at night for dramatic racing and an extra challenge, and gamers can also set up Custom Cup and online races to put the stunning Endurance cars to the test in day time events. In the drive to capture the feel of racing in real-world Endurance events, Codemasters has consulted with professional drivers and the experts at Autosport magazine to distil the experience into scalable races, whether online or in career mode.
Endurance events feature stunning prototypes on the cutting edge of automotive engineering and some of the most exciting and desirable production cars tuned for sports racing, each requiring incredible aerodynamics, blistering pace and extraordinary reliability. Players will get behind the wheels of contemporary and classic cars including the Aston Martin N24 V12 Zagato, Mercedes-Benz SLS AMG GT3, McLaren 12C GT3, Audi R8 LMS Ultra, Lola B12/80, Shelby Cobra “Daytona” Coupe, Ford GT40 MK1 and more as they race on the games circuits, including Yas Marina, Sepang and the world-famous Hockenheimring. Endurance events test both the capacity of the cars competing to withstand the extreme stresses placed on the vehicles in this long form of motorsport and each driver’s ability to maintain concentration at high speeds over distance.
In GRID Autosport’s huge career, gamers will specialise in their favourite racing discipline or conquer them all; players will feel the aggression of the pack in Touring Cars, race into the night in Endurance events, race Open-Wheel cars with precision, show car control in Tuner events and react on the fly in Street races. Each unique category features series dedicated to different classes, including Touring Cars, Hypercars, Endurance GT Cars, Prototypes, Single-Seaters, Super Modified vehicles, Drift cars and many, many more. Bursting with content, GRID Autosport features over 100 routes across 22 incredible locations and the world’s most exciting contemporary and classic high-performance racing cars to collect, tune and upgrade.
GRID Autosport is set to ship on 24th June in the USA and release on June 27th in Europe for the Xbox 360 games and entertainment system from Microsoft, Windows PC and for the PlayStation 3.
For more on GRID Autosport make sure to check out the forums and the gallery.
In the video, gameplay footage of GRID Autosport’s Endurance racing discipline reveals spectacular sports cars racing into the night in extended events where “you can never win a race on the first corner.” The video also features real-world professional drivers explaining the enduring appeal of the discipline and how to succeed in the sport, including Matt Bell of United Autosports, Aleksander Schjerpen from Century Motorsport and Rory Butcher of the Oman Racing Team / Motorbase Performance who comments, “You’ve got to be quick of course. You’ve got to treat the car well to get to the end of the race. You’ve got to be very consistent over the long distance.”
In GRID Autosport’s Endurance events players must manage tyre wear and race to a strategy in extended races which provide a true test of racing skill, patience and car management. As players race, they must manage their tyres which will lose grip as they break traction or go off track, affecting performance and handling as the race progresses. Players who look after their tyres will be faster towards the end of the race.
In career mode, Endurance events are set at night for dramatic racing and an extra challenge, and gamers can also set up Custom Cup and online races to put the stunning Endurance cars to the test in day time events. In the drive to capture the feel of racing in real-world Endurance events, Codemasters has consulted with professional drivers and the experts at Autosport magazine to distil the experience into scalable races, whether online or in career mode.
Endurance events feature stunning prototypes on the cutting edge of automotive engineering and some of the most exciting and desirable production cars tuned for sports racing, each requiring incredible aerodynamics, blistering pace and extraordinary reliability. Players will get behind the wheels of contemporary and classic cars including the Aston Martin N24 V12 Zagato, Mercedes-Benz SLS AMG GT3, McLaren 12C GT3, Audi R8 LMS Ultra, Lola B12/80, Shelby Cobra “Daytona” Coupe, Ford GT40 MK1 and more as they race on the games circuits, including Yas Marina, Sepang and the world-famous Hockenheimring. Endurance events test both the capacity of the cars competing to withstand the extreme stresses placed on the vehicles in this long form of motorsport and each driver’s ability to maintain concentration at high speeds over distance.
In GRID Autosport’s huge career, gamers will specialise in their favourite racing discipline or conquer them all; players will feel the aggression of the pack in Touring Cars, race into the night in Endurance events, race Open-Wheel cars with precision, show car control in Tuner events and react on the fly in Street races. Each unique category features series dedicated to different classes, including Touring Cars, Hypercars, Endurance GT Cars, Prototypes, Single-Seaters, Super Modified vehicles, Drift cars and many, many more. Bursting with content, GRID Autosport features over 100 routes across 22 incredible locations and the world’s most exciting contemporary and classic high-performance racing cars to collect, tune and upgrade.
GRID Autosport is set to ship on 24th June in the USA and release on June 27th in Europe for the Xbox 360 games and entertainment system from Microsoft, Windows PC and for the PlayStation 3.
For more on GRID Autosport make sure to check out the forums and the gallery.
Endurance races will feature 16 car offline grids, and 12 players online. The race format will be practice, qualy then race, with the race kicking off with a rolling start. AI will run multiple strategies, and we assume that there will be multi-class races. Races will last for around 40 minutes.
We’re waiting on confirmation of the full car list. Here’s what we think will be included:
Take a look at the touring car trailer & car list here.
We’re waiting on confirmation of the full car list. Here’s what we think will be included:
- Audi R8 LMS Ultra
- Mercedes-Benz SLS AMG GT3
- Aston Martin N24 V12 Zagato
- Nissan 2008 (R35) GT-R Nismo GT500
- McLaren 12C GT3
- Honda HSV-010 GT
- Lola B12/80
- Shelby Cobra “Daytona” Coupe
- Ford GT40 MK1
- Mazda 787B
Take a look at the touring car trailer & car list here.
16 car grids are a bit disappointing. I was hoping for crazy 40 man style grids GTR2 style. 
How long will the races be and will there be day/night transitions duting a race?
Ok just seen 40 mins. Hardly endurance is it?
Ok just seen 40 mins. Hardly endurance is it?
Found this interview here, with the chief game designer: http://www.fanbolt.com/grid-autosport-interview-with-chief-games-designer-on-grid/
Here is the quote I like the best:
In terms of gameplay and driving sensation, how does GRID Autosport compare to GRID and GRID 2? It’s mentioned that it goes back to a more authentic handling style. Just how different will it be?
JN: It’s quite, quite different from GRID 2, and it’s ever so slightly more towards the simulation end of the spectrum than GRID 1, plus the actual car handling and simulation is more detailed than GRID 1. The three games share the series’ “All about the race” DNA, but the experiences have changed each time. Driving-wise, the key thing we’re really happy with in GRID Autosport is the way that the grip falls away when you’re right on the limit. That lets you “catch” the car if you’ve put too much throttle down too early, for example, because you get just enough warning that the car is about to lose traction. That said, we’ve made sure that there are lots of assistance options available so that players of all experiences can enjoy the game. In the above example, traction control would prevent the wheelspin from causing you to lose control of the car, at the expense of being a little slower than a skilled player who applied the throttle gradually.
______
P.S. - Remember the "fall off understeer" problem many had with F1 2013? Well, that's what Codemasters has been really toiling over. My bet is that the handling of the open wheel cars will be even better than F1 2013 because you will be able to feel the tire contact with the asphalt even more in the turns...a major failing of most racing games.
Here is the quote I like the best:
In terms of gameplay and driving sensation, how does GRID Autosport compare to GRID and GRID 2? It’s mentioned that it goes back to a more authentic handling style. Just how different will it be?
JN: It’s quite, quite different from GRID 2, and it’s ever so slightly more towards the simulation end of the spectrum than GRID 1, plus the actual car handling and simulation is more detailed than GRID 1. The three games share the series’ “All about the race” DNA, but the experiences have changed each time. Driving-wise, the key thing we’re really happy with in GRID Autosport is the way that the grip falls away when you’re right on the limit. That lets you “catch” the car if you’ve put too much throttle down too early, for example, because you get just enough warning that the car is about to lose traction. That said, we’ve made sure that there are lots of assistance options available so that players of all experiences can enjoy the game. In the above example, traction control would prevent the wheelspin from causing you to lose control of the car, at the expense of being a little slower than a skilled player who applied the throttle gradually.
______
P.S. - Remember the "fall off understeer" problem many had with F1 2013? Well, that's what Codemasters has been really toiling over. My bet is that the handling of the open wheel cars will be even better than F1 2013 because you will be able to feel the tire contact with the asphalt even more in the turns...a major failing of most racing games.
That quote will eventually backfire on them I fear.
You should read it twice to understand it. They consequently don't say its more sim, but more sim than GRID 1.
Not sure how they interpret sim but GRID 1 didn't came close to my definition at least.
3000 threads of complaining "OMG this aint sim, you lied!!!" on the forums coming in 3, 2, 1 weeks.
You should read it twice to understand it. They consequently don't say its more sim, but more sim than GRID 1.
Not sure how they interpret sim but GRID 1 didn't came close to my definition at least.
3000 threads of complaining "OMG this aint sim, you lied!!!" on the forums coming in 3, 2, 1 weeks.
I'll still play it but it seems they're chasing the new "sim" buzzword that seems to be hot again in the racing genre. Only a few games are hardcore enough to be called sims and I just don't buy that Codemasters has what it takes to become one of them. However, I'm sure the game will still be fun as long as you know what you're stepping into before you buy.
Justin Swan
RD-DVLC
" it’s ever so slightly more towards the simulation end of the spectrum than GRID 1"
That worries me! Should read more like, " it’s has taken a huge step more towards the simulation end of the spectrum than GRID 1"
The thing is, it's got to be aimed at a wide audience for the likes of codemasters and while that's a good thing for pick up and play gamers, it's going to fall short for serious, hardcore sim racers like most of us. That's not a bad thing necessarily because there is an audience for this kind of racer and it's a bigger audience than us hardcore racers, so I'm sure they will be happy with it.
That worries me! Should read more like, " it’s has taken a huge step more towards the simulation end of the spectrum than GRID 1"
The thing is, it's got to be aimed at a wide audience for the likes of codemasters and while that's a good thing for pick up and play gamers, it's going to fall short for serious, hardcore sim racers like most of us. That's not a bad thing necessarily because there is an audience for this kind of racer and it's a bigger audience than us hardcore racers, so I'm sure they will be happy with it.
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Dave Stephenson
Premium
It's not always outright true. I know from previous releases from Codies that's how it feels to a lot of guys around here so I can agree with your sentiments in that respect, but in reality there's probably a few more like me that don't get involved in the posting turd storm after release. Being a sim site orientated community I think the balance of posts about this kind of thing can be a little misrepresentative.
I personally like to have a few less rigorous titles like this laying around. The the preparation, ceremony, setup work, and 3 hours in the rig aren't always that inviting after a long day at work and an hour or two chilled out in the arm chair with something a little more towards the arcade gaming end of the spectrum is a breath of fresh air at that point
I'm pretty sure it's not going to be hardcore to the max but it will probably find it's place somewhere in my list of currently played titles.
Justin Swan
RD-DVLC
It's not always outright true. I know from previous releases from Codies that's how it feels to a lot of guys around here so I can agree with your sentiments in that respect, but in reality there's probably a few more like me that don't get involved in the posting turd storm after release. Being a sim site orientated community I think the balance of posts about this kind of thing can be a little misrepresentative.
I personally like to have a few less rigorous titles like this laying around. The the preparation, ceremony, setup work, and 3 hours in the rig aren't always that inviting after a long day at work and an hour or two chilled out in the arm chair with something a little more towards the arcade gaming end of the spectrum is a breath of fresh air at that point
I'm pretty sure it's not going to be hardcore to the max but it will probably find it's place somewhere in my list of currently played titles.
Well that was kinda the point I was making.
GRID: Autosport and League Play -- A Preview
by Robert Wadddell
www.racedepartment.com
The GRID series has never really been about league play nor designed with that in mind, although I'm sure some have attempted to make GRID leagues work. Why is this you ask? My guess is that there are three main factors that contribute to this (and I admit up front that I have only fully explored the series since GRID2) -- 1. The "arcade" nature of the game, especially the handling model; 2. The inability to fully round out and customize long races (and not the GRID definition, but real league play standards here, which equal an hour or longer), especially considering pits are always closed and the damage model was visually oriented; and 3. The lack of car choices and track options that league racers want...and the ability to access them from the jump in multiplayer.
I'll attempt to address each of these concerns in order, but please bear in mind that there is much we still don't know about GRID: Autosport. Most of this article will include what is already known, but some may include speculation based on the tone and tenor of Codemasters' releases regarding the direction of Autosport.
First, while Codemasters admits that their aim is still not to create the best SIM racer out there (and their idea of SIM racing is sometimes a bit strange, as they refer to Forza and Grand Tourismo as benchmark SIM racers in some of their articles). However, the handling model of GRID2 (described as "drifty" or "unconnected" by some) is exactly why we have GRID: Autosport. Codemasters was so taken aback by the negative reaction of the players of GRID2 that they decided to swing the pendulum more toward the SIM side re: handling than they ever have before in a GID series. ("On release of GRID 2, I think it’s fair to say that through listening to you guys and a after a substantial amount of reflection, we hadn’t quite achieved everything we set out to do....and you’ll really notice the difference, we think, from GRID 2. For GRID Autosport we’ve gone back to a more authentic handling style. It’s definitely not a full simulation – we want it to be authentic, not clinical – but it’s more towards that end of the spectrum than before. If anything, we believe the handling is actually one or two steps further towards simulation than Race Driver: GRID, to give you an idea."). So, how do they propose to do this, you ask? I suspect that they will take a page out of F1 for the open wheel cars and apply their new handling model to the touring and endurance cars but with an interesting twist. For those of you who have played F1 2013, you may remember discussing "falloff under-steer" as a serious problem. Well, Codemasters recognized this ("We want to change the way then grip falls away as you approach the slip angle and as wheelspin occurs. We’ve traditionally had quite a ‘cliff’ here, with grip falling away very quickly. Based on some of the observations of our community playing the game, we decided that if there was a slightly more gradual falloff you’d have the chance to correct mistakes and more room to push to the limit with each car....[o]pen Wheel cars and some of the American Muscle cars, need a complete rethink with this new model.").
This new handling philosophy, described as 60% SIM and 40% arcade by the Codies, is critical to league play, since real racing is defined by you ability to maintain grip and not your ability to lose it in the correct fashion. Note that the handling of the different classes of cars (Touring, Endurance, Open-Wheel, Tuner and Street) will vary, but all should be tilted back toward SIM, especially the first three). In addition, the race screen is cleaner, there is less drama and hype to start the races (and endurance races even incorporate a rolling start!) and, so far, the menus look cleaner. Also, and very importantly to some, cockpit view is back! There are even two cockpit views -- one sort of a dash cam and the other what amount to be a helmet cam. The beauty of the helmet cam is that you can adjust both the shake and the "look to apex" aspect of the cam with a slider in 10% increments. If you want to have a peek at how an open wheel car look on track, here you go (it's unclear as to whether the damage is turned off in this run, but it appear so):
Second and Third, as any host knows, more options are better and the on0line experience need be as smooth as possible. First, let me simply quote Codemasters in their own words, from one of their articles that talks about THE tool a host would use to configure on-line races:
("Online Custom Cup is the game mode where you get to have your cake and eat it. Here, you can configure an Event to exactly the way you like it, and the rewards will fit the difficulty options you choose. In GRID Autosport, you can even make a Custom Cup pay out more than a Playlist event if you make it tough enough! Here’s a breakdown of the things you can configure in a Custom Cup:
Online Custom Cup allows you to experiment and combine GRID Autosport’s content in new ways.
Online Custom Cup allows you to experiment and combine GRID Autosport’s content in new ways. If you want to race cars from the Street Discipline on regular circuits, you can do that here. Likewise, if you want to drive Open-Wheel vehicles around city circuits for example, that is also possible in Custom Cup. As the host of a Custom Cup, it’s up to you to make a fun racing experience for your fellow racers.").
What could potentially be very interesting and new for on-line racers is the ability to upgrade and repair their "baby" just like real racers do, depending on the amount of money they win in any given event. This is accomplished through a system whereby a player purchases a car (with in game cash) and has to maintain it due to damage it receives not only from on track incidents, but from normal wear and tear ("Careless drivers will find that their car doesn’t quite perform as well as it did in previous races if they keep smashing it up. Small fractions of damage will get carried over as Wear & Tear, which you’ll need to repair in order to keep your cars performing at peak condition.").
GRID: Autosport has adopted a Forza-like approach to obtaining cars, but, unlike Forza, has also given players the option to drive any car he or she wants, although there are advantages to "owning" your own:
("Until your car collection is big enough, you’ll have to rely on Loan Cars to enter races where you don’t own an eligible vehicle. Cars are not XP-locked in GRID Autosport, all you need is the in-game Cash to buy them. In the mean time, you can loan any car you want. This means that if your friend has bought a very expensive Hypercar, you’ll still be able to race with them by borrowing a car from the same class....So why would I ever want to buy a car? I hear you ask; well, remember that only vehicles that you’ve bought can level-up and unlock Tuning Packs, Upgrades, repairs, cosmetic customisations and bonus rewards. You’ll be able to compete with a loaned car, but if you really want to stand out and have an edge over your opponents, you’ll need to buy one of your own.").
On-line lobbies max out at 12 players and, as mentioned before, there is no ability to pit, but you can spin this in a positive way: the series' that GRID: Autosport focuses on (GP3, GT3, Touring Series Races, etc.) typically are pit-less sprint races anyway. And the game will discourage races from becoming a free-for-all ("To encourage clean racing, we’ve made improvements to the Impact Rating and Off Track Penalty systems based on feedback we gathered from GRID 2. Players that gain an advantage by running off-track (which includes both cutting the apex and deliberately running wide to exploit run-off areas) will be slowed down and turned into a ghost so that they can’t block the track.) My understanding from the forums is that your car will remain a ghost to other cars that do not have a reasonable chance to anticipate the corner cutting penalty and the penalty itself will NOT be given unless all four wheels are off track and vary the severity depending on the egregiousness of the cut. Also, the slowdown will be more gradual so as not to interrupt the race as much.
So what about damage? Since you can't pit, this is a real concern. probably the biggest for the league racer. In an ideal world, you would be able to repair your car, but also in the real world, it's impossible to repair anything but bodywork damage on the fly. So how does the damage model work?
After this ominous warning ("the impact of mechanical damage in the game is much more severe than in previous GRID titles and will change your strategy when it comes to racing.) the Codies go on to explain:
("Motorsport puts tremendous stresses on cars, so wear and tear is a new feature that we’ve introduced for GRID Autosport – as you race over time, various parts will gradually lose performance through general use. For instance, gearbox damage will build up every time you change gear, while over-revving and shifting at the wrong time, (primarily in manual gears), will cause the gearbox to accrue damage more quickly. Once the gearbox is damaged, shift times will start to increase and a failure to address your driving style will cause a damaged gearbox to eventually start to skip gears. Brakes will also be affected. Repetitive high speed, late braking will eventually cause your brakes to fade quicker than if you use a more gradual approach.)
and
("Our collision based damage model only affects the areas of the car that are damaged through collisions with other cars and objects. By the very nature of these collisions, the results are also much more severe and will hamper the performance of the car significantly.
Collision based damage can be broken down into three main areas.
Wheels
Damage to the wheels will cause the steering to become misaligned and as a result will make the car pull to the side. While you’ll be able to feel the car’s steering being affected, you’ll also be able to see the wheels buckle visually. Furthermore, with enough damage the tyres will eventually puncture, which will then lead to a tyre blowout.
Engine
There are 4 components to engine damage;
Suspension
As the player damages their suspension the car will become less precise and visually the car will exhibit a lot more roll. The damage towards suspension will also affect the car’s springs and damper values.
Suspension damage is a brand new feature for GRID Autosport and we’re looking forward to seeing it in action once the game launches this summer.")
Another unique feature that is related to damage is that, unlike other games, your pit engineer talks to you at your request, giving you information relative to your race: ("A key new feature we have added is the Team Radio system; at any point during a race you can now request information from your engineer at the touch of a button. This means you can pay full attention to the action on track but still have easy access to standings and car health updates as and when you want it.")
One final comment about multiplayer. Tire wear is a factor in the endurance races. Your tires will wear at a rate that is equal for everyone, so players who are better able to manage their tires, either through their driving style or intentionally holding back, will be rewarded toward the end of the race.
If you want a good overview on all of this and the articles from which I quote and refer go here: http://blog.codemasters.com/grid/05/grid-autosport-the-story-so-far/
Confirmed cars:
Touring Cars
Cat C Touring Cars (WTCC)
Chevrolet Cruze Touring Car
BMW 320 Touring Car
Focus ST Touring Car
Honda Civic Touring Car
Super Utes
Ford Racing Ute
Holden VE Commodore Ute
Cat B (DTM)
Audi RS 5 (Cat B Special)
Mercedes-Benz C 63 AMG (Cat B Special)
Super Tourers (V8 Supercars)
Ford Falcon FG
Holden VF Commodore
Cat A Touring Cars (Brazil Touring Series)
Peugeot 408 SCB
ADC Presteza-14
Classic Mini Cup
Mini Miglia
Mini Cup
Mini John Cooper Works Challege
Classic Touring Car Cup
Ford Sierra RS 500 Cosworth Group A
Nissan 1991 (R32) Skyline GT-R Group A
Open Wheel
Dallara F312 (GP3)
Indycar
Aerial Atom V8
Endurance
AUDI R8 LMS Ultra
Mercedes-Benz SLS AMG GT3
Aston Martin N24 V12 Zagato
McLaren 12C GT3
Nissan 2008 (R35) GT-R Nismo GT500
Honda HSV-010 GT
Lola B12/80
Shelby Cobra “Daytona” Coupe
Ford GT40 MK1
Mazda 787B
Street
Audi RS5 Coupe
Mercedes Benz C63 AMG
BMW M3 E92
Mini John Cooper Works
Ford Focus
Volkswagen Golf R
Honda Integra
Subaru BRZ
BMW 1M Coupe
Class Unconfirmed
Super GT 500
Nissan GTR
Mazda RX7
Pagani Zonda Revolución
Audi RS5 GT
Mercedes Benz SLS AMG Black
Koenigsegg Agera R
Jupiter Eagleray Mk5
Mercedes C63 AMG V12 Biturbo
Mercedes SL65 AMG Black
Honda HSV-010 GT500
Confirmed Tracks:
Circuits:
Here's hoping that league play will truly reach an enjoyable state in GRID: Autosport -- the last last-gen console racer that potentially could be suitable for league and SIM oriented players.
by Robert Wadddell
www.racedepartment.com
The GRID series has never really been about league play nor designed with that in mind, although I'm sure some have attempted to make GRID leagues work. Why is this you ask? My guess is that there are three main factors that contribute to this (and I admit up front that I have only fully explored the series since GRID2) -- 1. The "arcade" nature of the game, especially the handling model; 2. The inability to fully round out and customize long races (and not the GRID definition, but real league play standards here, which equal an hour or longer), especially considering pits are always closed and the damage model was visually oriented; and 3. The lack of car choices and track options that league racers want...and the ability to access them from the jump in multiplayer.
I'll attempt to address each of these concerns in order, but please bear in mind that there is much we still don't know about GRID: Autosport. Most of this article will include what is already known, but some may include speculation based on the tone and tenor of Codemasters' releases regarding the direction of Autosport.
First, while Codemasters admits that their aim is still not to create the best SIM racer out there (and their idea of SIM racing is sometimes a bit strange, as they refer to Forza and Grand Tourismo as benchmark SIM racers in some of their articles). However, the handling model of GRID2 (described as "drifty" or "unconnected" by some) is exactly why we have GRID: Autosport. Codemasters was so taken aback by the negative reaction of the players of GRID2 that they decided to swing the pendulum more toward the SIM side re: handling than they ever have before in a GID series. ("On release of GRID 2, I think it’s fair to say that through listening to you guys and a after a substantial amount of reflection, we hadn’t quite achieved everything we set out to do....and you’ll really notice the difference, we think, from GRID 2. For GRID Autosport we’ve gone back to a more authentic handling style. It’s definitely not a full simulation – we want it to be authentic, not clinical – but it’s more towards that end of the spectrum than before. If anything, we believe the handling is actually one or two steps further towards simulation than Race Driver: GRID, to give you an idea."). So, how do they propose to do this, you ask? I suspect that they will take a page out of F1 for the open wheel cars and apply their new handling model to the touring and endurance cars but with an interesting twist. For those of you who have played F1 2013, you may remember discussing "falloff under-steer" as a serious problem. Well, Codemasters recognized this ("We want to change the way then grip falls away as you approach the slip angle and as wheelspin occurs. We’ve traditionally had quite a ‘cliff’ here, with grip falling away very quickly. Based on some of the observations of our community playing the game, we decided that if there was a slightly more gradual falloff you’d have the chance to correct mistakes and more room to push to the limit with each car....[o]pen Wheel cars and some of the American Muscle cars, need a complete rethink with this new model.").
This new handling philosophy, described as 60% SIM and 40% arcade by the Codies, is critical to league play, since real racing is defined by you ability to maintain grip and not your ability to lose it in the correct fashion. Note that the handling of the different classes of cars (Touring, Endurance, Open-Wheel, Tuner and Street) will vary, but all should be tilted back toward SIM, especially the first three). In addition, the race screen is cleaner, there is less drama and hype to start the races (and endurance races even incorporate a rolling start!) and, so far, the menus look cleaner. Also, and very importantly to some, cockpit view is back! There are even two cockpit views -- one sort of a dash cam and the other what amount to be a helmet cam. The beauty of the helmet cam is that you can adjust both the shake and the "look to apex" aspect of the cam with a slider in 10% increments. If you want to have a peek at how an open wheel car look on track, here you go (it's unclear as to whether the damage is turned off in this run, but it appear so):
Second and Third, as any host knows, more options are better and the on0line experience need be as smooth as possible. First, let me simply quote Codemasters in their own words, from one of their articles that talks about THE tool a host would use to configure on-line races:
("Online Custom Cup is the game mode where you get to have your cake and eat it. Here, you can configure an Event to exactly the way you like it, and the rewards will fit the difficulty options you choose. In GRID Autosport, you can even make a Custom Cup pay out more than a Playlist event if you make it tough enough! Here’s a breakdown of the things you can configure in a Custom Cup:
- Discipline – pick your favourite style of racing.
- Vehicle Class – the type of vehicles you want to drive.
- Race Type – the available Race Types will depend on what Discipline and Vehicles you’ve picked.
- Number of Events – create a mini-championship up to five Events long.
- AI – choose whether or not to add AI opponents to the session, which will fill any available slots on the grid. The difficulty of the AI can be changed as well.
- Tracks – choose the track, route, lighting conditions and race length for each Event.
- Upgrades, Tuning and Assists – can be disabled individually to level the playing field.
- Manual Only – turn this on if you want everyone to use manual transmission.
- Cockpit Cam Only – can be enabled for an ultra-hardcore experience.
- Pre- and Post-race timers – can be made longer or shorter to suit your preferences.
- Collisions – can be turned off if you don’t want vehicles to collide with each other.
- Grid Order – provides a range of options for how you want the grid to be ordered at the start of each race.
- Damage – can be set to Full or Visual Only. In Visual Only, your car will still crumple in a crash, but it won’t develop any mechanical defects.
- Flashbacks – the number of Online Flashbacks that are allowed per race can be set here.
Online Custom Cup allows you to experiment and combine GRID Autosport’s content in new ways.
Online Custom Cup allows you to experiment and combine GRID Autosport’s content in new ways. If you want to race cars from the Street Discipline on regular circuits, you can do that here. Likewise, if you want to drive Open-Wheel vehicles around city circuits for example, that is also possible in Custom Cup. As the host of a Custom Cup, it’s up to you to make a fun racing experience for your fellow racers.").
What could potentially be very interesting and new for on-line racers is the ability to upgrade and repair their "baby" just like real racers do, depending on the amount of money they win in any given event. This is accomplished through a system whereby a player purchases a car (with in game cash) and has to maintain it due to damage it receives not only from on track incidents, but from normal wear and tear ("Careless drivers will find that their car doesn’t quite perform as well as it did in previous races if they keep smashing it up. Small fractions of damage will get carried over as Wear & Tear, which you’ll need to repair in order to keep your cars performing at peak condition.").
GRID: Autosport has adopted a Forza-like approach to obtaining cars, but, unlike Forza, has also given players the option to drive any car he or she wants, although there are advantages to "owning" your own:
("Until your car collection is big enough, you’ll have to rely on Loan Cars to enter races where you don’t own an eligible vehicle. Cars are not XP-locked in GRID Autosport, all you need is the in-game Cash to buy them. In the mean time, you can loan any car you want. This means that if your friend has bought a very expensive Hypercar, you’ll still be able to race with them by borrowing a car from the same class....So why would I ever want to buy a car? I hear you ask; well, remember that only vehicles that you’ve bought can level-up and unlock Tuning Packs, Upgrades, repairs, cosmetic customisations and bonus rewards. You’ll be able to compete with a loaned car, but if you really want to stand out and have an edge over your opponents, you’ll need to buy one of your own.").
On-line lobbies max out at 12 players and, as mentioned before, there is no ability to pit, but you can spin this in a positive way: the series' that GRID: Autosport focuses on (GP3, GT3, Touring Series Races, etc.) typically are pit-less sprint races anyway. And the game will discourage races from becoming a free-for-all ("To encourage clean racing, we’ve made improvements to the Impact Rating and Off Track Penalty systems based on feedback we gathered from GRID 2. Players that gain an advantage by running off-track (which includes both cutting the apex and deliberately running wide to exploit run-off areas) will be slowed down and turned into a ghost so that they can’t block the track.) My understanding from the forums is that your car will remain a ghost to other cars that do not have a reasonable chance to anticipate the corner cutting penalty and the penalty itself will NOT be given unless all four wheels are off track and vary the severity depending on the egregiousness of the cut. Also, the slowdown will be more gradual so as not to interrupt the race as much.
So what about damage? Since you can't pit, this is a real concern. probably the biggest for the league racer. In an ideal world, you would be able to repair your car, but also in the real world, it's impossible to repair anything but bodywork damage on the fly. So how does the damage model work?
After this ominous warning ("the impact of mechanical damage in the game is much more severe than in previous GRID titles and will change your strategy when it comes to racing.) the Codies go on to explain:
("Motorsport puts tremendous stresses on cars, so wear and tear is a new feature that we’ve introduced for GRID Autosport – as you race over time, various parts will gradually lose performance through general use. For instance, gearbox damage will build up every time you change gear, while over-revving and shifting at the wrong time, (primarily in manual gears), will cause the gearbox to accrue damage more quickly. Once the gearbox is damaged, shift times will start to increase and a failure to address your driving style will cause a damaged gearbox to eventually start to skip gears. Brakes will also be affected. Repetitive high speed, late braking will eventually cause your brakes to fade quicker than if you use a more gradual approach.)
and
("Our collision based damage model only affects the areas of the car that are damaged through collisions with other cars and objects. By the very nature of these collisions, the results are also much more severe and will hamper the performance of the car significantly.
Collision based damage can be broken down into three main areas.
Wheels
Damage to the wheels will cause the steering to become misaligned and as a result will make the car pull to the side. While you’ll be able to feel the car’s steering being affected, you’ll also be able to see the wheels buckle visually. Furthermore, with enough damage the tyres will eventually puncture, which will then lead to a tyre blowout.
Engine
There are 4 components to engine damage;
- Radiator – This will cause the engine to overheat
- Turbo – A damaged turbo will cause the engine to lose power
- Exhaust – Damage to the exhaust will see a small amount of power loss, however if it falls off there is significant power loss
- Engine – a damaged engine will have a big reduction in performance
Suspension
As the player damages their suspension the car will become less precise and visually the car will exhibit a lot more roll. The damage towards suspension will also affect the car’s springs and damper values.
Suspension damage is a brand new feature for GRID Autosport and we’re looking forward to seeing it in action once the game launches this summer.")
Another unique feature that is related to damage is that, unlike other games, your pit engineer talks to you at your request, giving you information relative to your race: ("A key new feature we have added is the Team Radio system; at any point during a race you can now request information from your engineer at the touch of a button. This means you can pay full attention to the action on track but still have easy access to standings and car health updates as and when you want it.")
One final comment about multiplayer. Tire wear is a factor in the endurance races. Your tires will wear at a rate that is equal for everyone, so players who are better able to manage their tires, either through their driving style or intentionally holding back, will be rewarded toward the end of the race.
If you want a good overview on all of this and the articles from which I quote and refer go here: http://blog.codemasters.com/grid/05/grid-autosport-the-story-so-far/
Confirmed cars:
Touring Cars
Cat C Touring Cars (WTCC)
Chevrolet Cruze Touring Car
BMW 320 Touring Car
Focus ST Touring Car
Honda Civic Touring Car
Super Utes
Ford Racing Ute
Holden VE Commodore Ute
Cat B (DTM)
Audi RS 5 (Cat B Special)
Mercedes-Benz C 63 AMG (Cat B Special)
Super Tourers (V8 Supercars)
Ford Falcon FG
Holden VF Commodore
Cat A Touring Cars (Brazil Touring Series)
Peugeot 408 SCB
ADC Presteza-14
Classic Mini Cup
Mini Miglia
Mini Cup
Mini John Cooper Works Challege
Classic Touring Car Cup
Ford Sierra RS 500 Cosworth Group A
Nissan 1991 (R32) Skyline GT-R Group A
Open Wheel
Dallara F312 (GP3)
Indycar
Aerial Atom V8
Endurance
AUDI R8 LMS Ultra
Mercedes-Benz SLS AMG GT3
Aston Martin N24 V12 Zagato
McLaren 12C GT3
Nissan 2008 (R35) GT-R Nismo GT500
Honda HSV-010 GT
Lola B12/80
Shelby Cobra “Daytona” Coupe
Ford GT40 MK1
Mazda 787B
Street
Audi RS5 Coupe
Mercedes Benz C63 AMG
BMW M3 E92
Mini John Cooper Works
Ford Focus
Volkswagen Golf R
Honda Integra
Subaru BRZ
BMW 1M Coupe
Class Unconfirmed
Super GT 500
Nissan GTR
Mazda RX7
Pagani Zonda Revolución
Audi RS5 GT
Mercedes Benz SLS AMG Black
Koenigsegg Agera R
Jupiter Eagleray Mk5
Mercedes C63 AMG V12 Biturbo
Mercedes SL65 AMG Black
Honda HSV-010 GT500
Confirmed Tracks:
Circuits:
- Hockenheim
- Sepang
- Jarama
- Yas Marina
- Brands Hatch
- Bathurst Mount Panorama
- Circuit Mont-Tremblant
- Circuit of the Americas
- Autodromo Do Algarve
- Indianapolis
- Okutama
- Red Bull Ring
- Autosport Raceway
- Spa Francorchamps
- Intercity Istanbul Park
- Chicago
- Dubai
- San Francisco
- Paris
- Washington
- Detroit Stadium
- Barcelona
Here's hoping that league play will truly reach an enjoyable state in GRID: Autosport -- the last last-gen console racer that potentially could be suitable for league and SIM oriented players.
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If a non-staffer could nudge in here for a sec....
Rhetorical question: What would you call F1 2013? More toward the SIM side than GRID1? Really an arcade racer compared to the hardcore SIMS? A good mix between SIM and arcade? (I know, those terms get old).
I guess my point being, if the Codies can move GRID Autosport toward F1 2013 and get close enough, we will have a real gem on our hands, especially from the people (like myself) who don't know the PC side, are last-gen console, and see painfully few authentic handling games.
Rhetorical question: What would you call F1 2013? More toward the SIM side than GRID1? Really an arcade racer compared to the hardcore SIMS? A good mix between SIM and arcade? (I know, those terms get old).
I guess my point being, if the Codies can move GRID Autosport toward F1 2013 and get close enough, we will have a real gem on our hands, especially from the people (like myself) who don't know the PC side, are last-gen console, and see painfully few authentic handling games.
Bad news: Yea, this is no "endurance" game, even though they title a class that. (Tells you the mentality of the average console gamer). In that class, maximum of 20 laps or 40 minutes per race, although you can have up to five back to back races with any grid order you want for the subsequent one.
Good News: In Custom Cup, you can pick any car and put it on any track and change the day/night conditions. There will be about 50-75 cars I think. You can add any level of A.I. to the max grid of 12 and tire wear will be a factor in the endurance races.
Good News: In Custom Cup, you can pick any car and put it on any track and change the day/night conditions. There will be about 50-75 cars I think. You can add any level of A.I. to the max grid of 12 and tire wear will be a factor in the endurance races.
From the Codemasters Official Wheel supported page the Fanatec CSR Elite is NOT listed but the regular Fanatec CSR is using the XBox 360. Is this omission correct or a mistake?
I realize the CSR Elite is discontinued from Fanatec, but it is listed in the PS3 and PC platforms as supported in Grid Autosport, but not in the XBox360 list. Just the CSR. ???
I realize the CSR Elite is discontinued from Fanatec, but it is listed in the PS3 and PC platforms as supported in Grid Autosport, but not in the XBox360 list. Just the CSR. ???
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Strange for sure, and I just ordered a copy last week, but here is the list below. If it was omitted from all the other platforms (PC and PS3) then I would think .......well then it will not
I am going to send off an email to Codies and ask what's up. I will post any replies.
http://www.racedepartment.com/grid-autosport-supported-wheels/
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Whenever the 'sim' word gets bandied around it brings forth a lot of emotive comment. Personally I agree with what Dave said in so far as although I love the sim aspect of many of the PC racing titles and loved them back in the day when I was racing on the PC (and more importantly had more time ot devote to them). Right now I am looking for something that doesn't require me to spend too long tinkering with the setups to get something that enalbes me to be competitive. If this new title gets the balance right and gives us a bit more than the current F1 title (on Xbox at least) then I will probably be more than happy.
I have never tried the previous Grid titles so cannot comment on the 'simness' of those but with regard to F1 2013 in comparison to 'hardcore' sims then it would have to fall far more towards the arcade than the sim in my view. Setup and handling wise there is just not the complexity to bring it up towards the true sim level. However, that is fine as far as I am concerned as it was never meant to be a hardcore sim but rather something that anyone can pick up and get comfortable with. It has enough to keep plenty of us (especially those that are restricted to the console area) playing and enjoying it many months after it's release.
If Grid Autosport can just improve on certain aspects of it then I am sure it will find a good audience.
I have never tried the previous Grid titles so cannot comment on the 'simness' of those but with regard to F1 2013 in comparison to 'hardcore' sims then it would have to fall far more towards the arcade than the sim in my view. Setup and handling wise there is just not the complexity to bring it up towards the true sim level. However, that is fine as far as I am concerned as it was never meant to be a hardcore sim but rather something that anyone can pick up and get comfortable with. It has enough to keep plenty of us (especially those that are restricted to the console area) playing and enjoying it many months after it's release.
If Grid Autosport can just improve on certain aspects of it then I am sure it will find a good audience.
If a non-staffer could nudge in here for a sec....
Rhetorical question: What would you call F1 2013? More toward the SIM side than GRID1? Really an arcade racer compared to the hardcore SIMS? A good mix between SIM and arcade? (I know, those terms get old).
I guess my point being, if the Codies can move GRID Autosport toward F1 2013 and get close enough, we will have a real gem on our hands, especially from the people (like myself) who don't know the PC side, are last-gen console, and see painfully few authentic handling games.
A majority of the members here are probably more informed than I am, but I think that F1 would qualify as sim-cade also. It's accessible to people who don't want the hardcore sim experience, which is what I believe Autosport will shoot for too.
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