Buying advice please - Next Level v3 Motion Platform

[MarkR]

I'm looking for some advice and thoughts of other owners or people with good knowledge of the product, please.

I always said I'd buy myself a motion simulator if I could afford one and had the room available. Well, that day may have arrived. I'm impressed by what I've seen of the Next Level v3 Motion Platform

This seems to meet all my criteria:

+ Limited space requirements, I don't have room for a huge sim rig but this seems compact enough to work.
+ Works with Oculus Rift VR, that fixed head position setting solution is impressive
+ Great support and regular updates from the developers
+ Available in the UK
+ Works with my current Thrustmaster wheel and accessories.
+ Sub £3k for the full setup, I'm not a pro racer I'm not looking for a practice simulator this is just for fun so the cost/fun balance has to be right.

So help me do the man maths! Is it worth it?

Is there another similar product I should also look at? It would need to be reasonably compact, work with VR, available in the UK without too much hassle and in the same £3-5K price range.

Is there anywhere I can try one or even better several of the systems in the UK?

 

[Turvey]

I cannot speak highly enough of Next Level's customer support. (I'm based in the UK and believe they are in Queensland, Australia)

Whenever I've required advice or help I've received an email reply within a day or two from Brendan and the latter is rare. The software also has some quick and easy built-in diagnostics and event-logging functionality that you can quickly generate, export and email to Next Level for them to look at if you are experiencing a software or technical issue.

For example I had a problem with the Race Room motion profile failing to work, (resulting in no motion), whenever I set intensity and post-processing to certain values. The issue was acknowledged and a few days later I received a beta driver that fixed the issue for good. Impressive.

More recently I had a more worrying issue where the platform would only move to one side and stay there upon power up. Log files sent and after a couple of days of correspondence NL had diagnosed that an optical sensor inside the unit appeared to have been covered by something and they sent me visual instructions how to quickly investigate and sort it, if I was happy to. They were spot on. I had recently lubricated the main pistons with WD40, (as recommended from time to time) and I had over-sprayed, which resulted in some of the gunk getting inside the unit and covering one of the optical sensors. Anyway, long story short, a quick clean with a cotton bud and all was good to go again and everything has worked perfectly since. My fault entirely as well because I didn't spend 30 seconds unbolting the seat and tipping it forward so that I could access the top of the platform easier and direct the WD40 in a more controlled fashion! Lesson learnt!

Finally, Next Level listen to their customers and welcome suggestions and ideas, which they will consider for future implementation and release. And they acknowledge what you ask for rather than ignore you. I've been hugely impressed and I know that @AntoN_CheZ on here has had a fair bit of involvement with them and made recommendations, which benefit us all and he's had a great response.

With regards misaligned assembly holes, I'm not sure whether you are referring to the V3 or not but if you are I don't think you can say they are misaligned. Sure there is an issue if you want to bottom-mount a race seat directly to the platform or runners fixed to it, as a standard race seat typically has 345mm horizontal spacing for underside mounting and the V3 is 355mm between supports. However this is easily overcome with some fettling or by using suitable side-mounts instead and mounting the seat that way, which I've done, albeit I have an 80/20 set up.

Can't speak highly enough about them albeit that's based on my own, personal experience.

Ive dealt with brendan a few times hes always helpfully. One thing with them they get things delivered very quickly

 

[Jeremy Ford]

Lol i know what you mean when i mounted my chair on my motion platform and pulled the foam up i went ohhhh.... this wont last long.those nuts " molded in the fibre glass you could flick out with minimal effort . I gots a full motion platform so when your on something like dirt rally where it can become quite violent its only a matter of time before my goes the exact same way as your seat.

I still have the seat waiting to go down to the local tip and since it's broken, after reading your message I just cut through the padding to see how the mounting nuts are actually bonded to the seat. It's worse than I thought. One of the rear ones just popped out in my hand, and the final remaining nut, well I can see it's just glued in place over the hole. Maybe not a problem for fully static rigs, but motion it always going to pull free. Next Level are getting a nice mark up on this tat.

 

[Mascot]

I cannot speak highly enough of Next Level's customer support. (I'm based in the UK and believe they are in Queensland, Australia)

Whenever I've required advice or help I've received an email reply within a day or two from Brendan and the latter is rare. The software also has some quick and easy built-in diagnostics and event-logging functionality that you can quickly generate, export and email to Next Level for them to look at if you are experiencing a software or technical issue.

For example I had a problem with the Race Room motion profile failing to work, (resulting in no motion), whenever I set intensity and post-processing to certain values. The issue was acknowledged and a few days later I received a beta driver that fixed the issue for good. Impressive.

More recently I had a more worrying issue where the platform would only move to one side and stay there upon power up. Log files sent and after a couple of days of correspondence NL had diagnosed that an optical sensor inside the unit appeared to have been covered by something and they sent me visual instructions how to quickly investigate and sort it, if I was happy to. They were spot on. I had recently lubricated the main pistons with WD40, (as recommended from time to time) and I had over-sprayed, which resulted in some of the gunk getting inside the unit and covering one of the optical sensors. Anyway, long story short, a quick clean with a cotton bud and all was good to go again and everything has worked perfectly since. My fault entirely as well because I didn't spend 30 seconds unbolting the seat and tipping it forward so that I could access the top of the platform easier and direct the WD40 in a more controlled fashion! Lesson learnt!

Finally, Next Level listen to their customers and welcome suggestions and ideas, which they will consider for future implementation and release. And they acknowledge what you ask for rather than ignore you. I've been hugely impressed and I know that @AntoN_CheZ on here has had a fair bit of involvement with them and made recommendations, which benefit us all and he's had a great response.

With regards misaligned assembly holes, I'm not sure whether you are referring to the V3 or not but if you are I don't think you can say they are misaligned based on the variety of rig types out there that the platform could effectively be mounted to and not just NL's own. As a result you might need to investigate what works best for your particular rig but there will always be a solution. If you are talking about seat mounting then yes, there is an issue if you want to bottom-mount a race seat directly to the platform or runners fixed to it, as a standard race seat typically has 345mm horizontal spacing for underside mounting and the V3 is 355mm between supports. However this is easily overcome with some fettling or by using suitable side-mounts instead and mounting the seat that way, which I've done, albeit I have an 80/20 set up.

Can't speak highly enough about them albeit that's based on my own, personal experience.

Many thanks for the detailed response!
Apologies, I should have been clearer - the misaligned hole reports seem related to assembly of the cockpit, not the motion platform. I've read quite a few reports of redrilling being required (on Amazon reviews, and elsewhere).

 

[Furnace Inferno]

Thanks for the benefit of your experience - that's very useful!
You say you had the v2 cockpit, so what do you use now? And which Sparco did you go for? Any photos of your new setup?

£500 just for the seat is madness, but I can get the v2 cockpit, seat, mat and TV mount all for £360 if bought with the V3 motion platform. Would this still be a bad deal based on your time with it?

Reports about flex, strength, build quality etc vary so wildly it makes me think there was a change of manufacturer at some point, or maybe production was also subcontracted out to someone else to cope with demand, and inferior materials/QA were used. Some people swear the v2 cockpit is rock solid, others that it's a wobbly mess. I guess some of this can be down to previous experience, preconceptions and expectations, and different sim racing hardware, but the range of comments is vastly wide.

I think it does come down to how solid you expect it to be and the size/strength of the person and their equipment as that will also determine how it’s set up and where the leverage points are.

They have improved certain things over the years like the pedal deck lift negated with an extra bar keeping the bottom locked down. I believe newer ones have better welds on the base connector and crossbar which holds the wheeldeck in place on mine a lot of flex came from that because they only used two small spot welds one of which came off and I had to put thin doorstops to wedge it in but even afterwards it still easily flexed if I pulled or pushed on the wheel from the actual wheeldeck as it’s not particularly thick. It’s about 3mm thick powder coated steel so only 2.5mm of actual metal and you can bend it by hand, for comparison most 80/20 rigs use something like 10mm thick aluminium plate.

The front stand only lifts up from the seat on heavy braking from a load cell so if someone uses standard potentiometer ones then they aren’t going to notice it but it literally tilted the whole chair back for me and I had to pull myself onto the wheel as I pushed to keep it down otherwise I couldn’t get full brake force.

It reviewed well for it’s time as there wasn’t much else out there in it’s price range but it’s also increased in price by 25% since then and 80/20 rigs are more easily available. Add to that it’s considered a wheelstand first of which it’s one of the best and that’s what it’s being compared to rather than full rigs as it’s still easily detachable.

That’s how I used it for the last year with the chair as my gaming chair and just attached the wheelstand as and when needed which I won’t be able to do with the new one which means I’ve needed to move the sofa and have a permanent rig essentially take up 2x the floor space.

If you priority is rigidity and no flex there are too many things which aren’t solid but for the average person and standard wheels there isn’t much wrong with it but if you can accommodate a permanent rig I still think right now an 80/20 is the best value, even just for easy adjustability for any body proportions.

 

[Mascot]

I think it does come down to how solid you expect it to be and the size/strength of the person and their equipment as that will also determine how it’s set up and where the leverage points are.

They have improved certain things over the years like the pedal deck lift negated with an extra bar keeping the bottom locked down. I believe newer ones have better welds on the base connector and crossbar which holds the wheeldeck in place on mine a lot of flex came from that because they only used two small spot welds one of which came off and I had to put thin doorstops to wedge it in but even afterwards it still easily flexed if I pulled or pushed on the wheel from the actual wheeldeck as it’s not particularly thick. It’s about 3mm thick powder coated steel so only 2.5mm of actual metal and you can bend it by hand, for comparison most 80/20 rigs use something like 10mm thick aluminium plate.

The front stand only lifts up from the seat on heavy braking from a load cell so if someone uses standard potentiometer ones then they aren’t going to notice it but it literally tilted the whole chair back for me and I had to pull myself onto the wheel as I pushed to keep it down otherwise I couldn’t get full brake force.

It reviewed well for it’s time as there wasn’t much else out there in it’s price range but it’s also increased in price by 25% since then and 80/20 rigs are more easily available. Add to that it’s considered a wheelstand first of which it’s one of the best and that’s what it’s being compared to rather than full rigs as it’s still easily detachable.

That’s how I used it for the last year with the chair as my gaming chair and just attached the wheelstand as and when needed which I won’t be able to do with the new one which means I’ve needed to move the sofa and have a permanent rig essentially take up 2x the floor space.

If you priority is rigidity and no flex there are too many things which aren’t solid but for the average person and standard wheels there isn’t much wrong with it but if you can accommodate a permanent rig I still think right now an 80/20 is the best value, even just for easy adjustability for any body proportions.

Very useful - cheers!
Are plans & parts lists available for DIY 80/20 rigs?

 

[Furnace Inferno]

Very useful - cheers!
Are plans & parts lists available for DIY 80/20 rigs?

You’d probably find someone on here willing to send you over plans of theirs.

Looking on Motedis you could just spec it up yourself based on proportions of other rigs and make adjustments where you see fit and then once you know what profiles you want it’s just a case of working out how many slot nuts, bolts, angle brackets etc. you need.

 

[RKip455]

Guys with the Motion seat... I'm loving it, but I feel the unnecessary bouncing down some straights... like RA and Mid-Ohio say (happens on many many tracks if not all) the seat moves forward and backwards in short jolts... will just driving down the straight.

In R3E... for example I have the following settings:
overall intensity - 0.80
Bumps - 0.00
Roll - 0.80
Heave - 0.00
Surge - 0.73
Sway - 0.73
weight transfer - 0.03
Wheel Slip - 0.40

I like the braking forward and backward, I like the roll feel in turns... by the seat leaning. I really don't care for the bumps. I found by removing or reducing Sway I loose the lean in turns.

Can anyone help me with good... low settings that focus more on braking and turn/leans?

Really appreciated guys.
RKip

 

[anton_Chez]

Sway will get you the lean effect in turns, and you have already removed the problem setting for the bumpy straights which is HEAVE. That is the setting the makes the whole ride more or less bumpy. I think BUMPS setting is for the vibrating motors in the unit that rumble on strips etc. Not the actual dips in the road. That's HEAVE. I need to turn HEAVE down a fair bit on my Open Wheel car profile as they are so fast it makes the ride unbearable. The ROLL setting is for when the wheels get off the ground and tip or tilt the car.

 

[Mr Latte]

Sway will get you the lean effect in turns, and you have already removed the problem setting for the bumpy straights which is HEAVE. That is the setting the makes the whole ride more or less bumpy. I think BUMPS setting is for the vibrating motors in the unit that rumble on strips etc. Not the actual dips in the road. That's HEAVE. I need to turn HEAVE down a fair bit on my Open Wheel car profile as they are so fast it makes the ride unbearable. The ROLL setting is for when the wheels get off the ground and tip or tilt the car.

Im curious, something that will help me regards more understanding with telemetry.
Can you guys with V3 or other motion give examples of cars that produce the least and most strengths or sensation for various effects. Or do you feel very little varation if sticking with the same settings?

I understand that much of the telemetry values will be based on speed and g-forces created.
However, surely specific cars own physics (suspension, ride height, tyres etc) have to also be a large part of this as to the telemetry values different cars will potentially generate?

For instance "heave" mentioned above based on a slow roadcar with soft suspension to a single seater race/track car. How does that transmit different in the motion seat using the same settings but just two very different cars?

 

[anton_Chez]

The stiffer the suspension in real life the more bumpy you can expect the motion platform to portray the ride. Formula cars are notorious for needing the Heave setting turned down especially when you do as I have (increased the intensity, or gain, of the output while shortening the movement, or throw, of the platform). Otherwise it's just unwanted 'noise' that doesn't add much to the experience other than hoping your platform is robust enough to take it.

In regards to other settings and cars, I have felt that what you would expect to feel in real life is close to what you get in motion. GT cars have some thrust to them, but nothing compared to a formula car. Rally cars tend to move around a fair bit because the platform is trying to simulate the sideways movement, even if it doesn't do a perfect job when compared to what actual g-force would feel like. Me adjusting profiles to suit certain types of cars (namely open wheel and closed cabin) further adds to what the sim actually puts out.

I will eventually do a thread with my settings, I haven't forgotten

 

[BrainsBush]

I just bought myself a NLR motion bundle in the UK and I'm from the other side of the North sea. So Ihelped the Brittish economy and hopefully they will reward that with a swift shipment. Estimated delivery on Wednesday.

You can imagine I'm a little hyped and that for a midlife crisis adult

 

[Mascot]

I just bought myself a NLR motion bundle in the UK and I'm from the other side of the North sea. So Ihelped the Brittish economy and hopefully they will reward that with a swift shipment. Estimated delivery on Wednesday.

You can imagine I'm a little hyped and that for a midlife crisis adult

Looking forward to your review!

 

[Turvey]

I just bought myself a NLR motion bundle in the UK and I'm from the other side of the North sea. So Ihelped the Brittish economy and hopefully they will reward that with a swift shipment. Estimated delivery on Wednesday.

You can imagine I'm a little hyped and that for a midlife crisis adult

Awsome i dont have a nlr but i got motion. Have fun with it dirt rally will put a grin from ear to ear

 

[BrainsBush]

A quick heads up about the progress so far: Yesterday evening I installed all the hardware. I still have to find the best suitable position. Before beginning I actually read the improved/renewed manuals. To be honest I still had to watch some additional Youtube how to's before exactly understanding what I was supposed to do.
Installing the chair on top of the motion rig was the hardest part.
In total it took me about 4hours of installation time.

Because it was already late I decided to connect the gear to my PC. Serial# hand shake and installation of the management software was peace of cake.

Does anyone else have the motion rig and also a Buttkicker installed on the back? I installed the mounting bracket* and still have a brand new BK Gamer2 in the box. Does it add extra immersion on top of the motion movement itself?

* install the bracket before installing the chair. That is already advised in the manual. Otherwise you cannot reach the nuts/bolts to tighten them properly.

During thishardware installation process I learned some new acrobatic moves....and my wife asked at 2AM not to swear anymore Now let's test, tune and race!


Edit: In the UK they cancelled my order because the package was too large to ship to the Netherlands....Yes we are a small country but we do have boats, trains, trucks etc Nevermind I ordered locally at MardoMedia.nl and could collect the gear immediately. So I did because waiting is something that I do not understand.

 

[anton_Chez]

Installing the seat is a BASTARD especially if you haven't done it before. Even more so when the seat needs drilling and also the top frame of the rig to fit the pattern properly ala me. I changed the seat that's why I had to do all of that, not a big fan of the standard seat although I do still have it in case I sell this platform someday and want to keep my new seat as I like that one a lot.

I have 4 x Aura shakers with the motion and you can always tell that something is missing when they are not turned on/activated through SimCommander or other software you may choose to use. They add a lot to a motion rig and my units are pretty small. Just enough to give that texture and suspension impact that the motion struggles to portray.

 

[BrainsBush]

Thanks Anton!

===

Second update: After the succesful and sweaty hardware installation I was ready for my first stints. As already written the software installation is easy 'plug and play'. Even I could do it without any help.

First attemps with all settings still default in Assetto Corsa. Tried a couple of different cars (XBow, Ferrari GT3, Lotus 25, Ford Escort). What a joy this first time you feel and experience the seat is actually moving. Accelerating, curves, brakes, rumble.

I need to get used to the new setup e.g. with regards to car 'feeling' and consistency. It was just about two hours so not a real comparison with my previous static setup. I could not match my previous times (YET!). I could find and operate my shifter, controller, keyboard blindfolded (is VR goggles on my head) and now I have to relearn that again. Just a matter of time for this learning curve.

Then I launched Project Cars 2. This also goes very well together with the NLR Motion software. Tried a couple of different cars on several tracks. Just to feel and learn the new behavior of my simrig.

Mistake I made....I deleted (why?) the Fanatec CSL Elite and TS500 "apps" in the management software of the NLR v3. I have a TH8A but it is recognized as TS500 like in other sims.
Started PCars2 again and the wheel was not recognized anymore? After some trouble shooting I figured out that apperently these apps are needed? I also had to re-install the Fanatec drivers? And then re-installed these apps in the Management console. For some reason now the wheel only works as a default CSL and not the CSL Elite PS4 version in PCars2? Probably I'm doing something wrong or missing a clue so any advice is appreciated. The wheel works well so it is not a real issue but I would like to know what could be or is the reason for this wheel recognition mismatch?

So far I just spent a couple of hours with the new simrig. Gladly very satisfied after spending €3,5K...
I think my next step is to soften -or better allign- the shake. Default seems a bit too much 'throwing' around. Which is nice for demo purposes but now I have to find the glue between the vibration and the car you are driving.
Any tips about setups? Or a forum besides this one where to find more in depth detailed info?
I'm already active on AC, GT Planet, PCars forum.

Then I still have the Buttkicker waiting to be installed. Demo versions of Simvibe, Simcommander etc were already installed a couple of months ago and yet to be tested.
Maybe later racesims like R3E, IRacing which are new to me. Ooh and Dirt Rally is also on my hard drive. Pfff need more time then 24hrs a day.

Now first some fun driving, hotlapping community challenges both AC and PCars, continue career mode PCars 2 and then Sunday is over again.

Grtz, Brian

 

[anton_Chez]

Recommendation for settings is the get the travel down. The less the seat moves in one way or another is better for overall feeling and also for lap times. You want the cues, the shifts in weight to be apparent, not a roller coaster ride. So now that they have given us the option (in motion post processing tab) to actually limit the range of the seat moving along with the intensity of those movements, this is easy. Less movement also helps with lap times because you can't drive efficiently while tilted over at 45 degrees around a corner, nor is that realistic.

To me, the most immersive part of the motion is actually the least though about feature. The feeling of the road travelling under you. The little (or large) bumps as you're driving at speed really makes you feel as if you are moving at pace. Even more so with the tactile units. Nothing like having a full rig mover like a D Box that actually simulates Heave motion (up and down) physically, giving you the feeling of an actual sprung suspension at the 4 'wheels', but good enough for the price range we pay to be convincing, especially in VR. Also, the first time you get a bump from a car behind you while in VR will give you a nice surprise. Very immersive.

Overall less setting is better than trying to max it out, but that is personal preference. They key is to make it feel as close to what you would feel in a car as possible with the limited 2DOF that we have. The software does a great job of filling in the gaps. I have a day off today, I am going to put together my settings thread. Finally. Go find it and have a play with what I have spent many hours tuning.

Edit: Thread is now live

 

[BrainsBush]

See this review and how-to of the NLR Motion platform. It's over an hour but worth watching. Good explanation and great conclusions.

 

[Chouck]

Beeing 2 DOF and with a need of extra $800 frame It is still 3 times more expensive than DOF Reality 2 DOF H2 . Also there are no seat options and bundle seat is huge and sorry crappy one. You cant use your own seat. And it doesn't move the wheel and pedals pates. and it is 2 times more expensive than DOF Reality 3 DOF H3 model.
What is the point of investing there?

 

[anton_Chez]

You can use your own seat. I don't use the stock seat. The seat mover vs complete rig mover has been done to death. If you're complaining about adding $800 for a cockpit then you probably are not in the market for a motion platform, regardless of type.