Buying advice please - Next Level v3 Motion Platform

[MarkR]

I'm looking for some advice and thoughts of other owners or people with good knowledge of the product, please.

I always said I'd buy myself a motion simulator if I could afford one and had the room available. Well, that day may have arrived. I'm impressed by what I've seen of the Next Level v3 Motion Platform

This seems to meet all my criteria:

+ Limited space requirements, I don't have room for a huge sim rig but this seems compact enough to work.
+ Works with Oculus Rift VR, that fixed head position setting solution is impressive
+ Great support and regular updates from the developers
+ Available in the UK
+ Works with my current Thrustmaster wheel and accessories.
+ Sub £3k for the full setup, I'm not a pro racer I'm not looking for a practice simulator this is just for fun so the cost/fun balance has to be right.

So help me do the man maths! Is it worth it?

Is there another similar product I should also look at? It would need to be reasonably compact, work with VR, available in the UK without too much hassle and in the same £3-5K price range.

Is there anywhere I can try one or even better several of the systems in the UK?

 

[Mr Latte]

More TL talk outta a 2dof seat mover, Riiiiiiight.


For Fun please explain the data behind a TL movement. Lets see how much yall think you know.

Nick, It would be excellent if you done a thread and cover various elements in what you would recommend as the best "reasonable cost" d.i.y motion option.

For me personally, if I were to go motion I have to agree that the V3 seems one of the best "packaged solutions". Comes with full warranty and easy to use software. Is little hassle, being simple to configure and gets excellent performance recommendations.

Please consider doing a thread on d.i.y alternatives for say an 8020 build and sharing your own experiences/knowledge. I can't speak for others but I'd like to know "how much" such would cost in comparison and learn more about it all.

This way people can easier way up the options, their pros/cons and importantly the costs.

 

[anton_Chez]

It's easier to nit pick other people's opinions though, Rod. Rather than offer a solution to what he perceives to be a problem with our thinking. No one said that the NL platform replaced the need for rear traction loss. But I have mine in my living room and I'd wager than if anyone's wife were to vote on which system they would prefer to look at (talking about the Stage IV) and listen to every day, I know where my money would be. Would a RTL system ala Stage IV outperform a 2DOF platform such as the V3? Sure, but then again not everyone wants to spend 24 hours to build and AUD $2,000 on SHIPPING for their kit.

For what it is, it does very well. As someone who spends a fair bit of time in it and is also a fairly **** driver, being able to sense the rear stepping out (albeit with a decent wheel base in the CSW V2) I am pleasantly surprised by it's ability to create the movement (however it does it) to allow you to feel what you expect. You know, they way VR doesn't literally put you behind the wheel of a $500k race car, it only pretends to?

Like that.

 

[Steve D]

Nicely said Anton and couldn't agree more with you mate but then again it was your enthusiasm and help that convinced me to buy the V3 in the first place and I am so, so happy that I did because I would have missed out and been none the wiser otherwise. Indeed the whole experience and immersion just feels incomplete without it now.

My son came home from Uni over the weekend and he hasn't used the rig in anger since late November when I completed my build and added the motion platform. Since then I've set up your post-processing values, (formula and non-formula) as the 'defacto' ones across all titles I play and tweaked the intensity of the individual effects until I've found the sweet spot which works for me. After caning a DTM Mercedes around Silverstone GP for 12 laps in R3E last night, he told me that the motion experience was 'night and day' compared to when he first tried it, (which impressed him back then regardless) and he too advised he could feel the rear seemingly break traction, albeit, like you, the set up of the Fanatec wheel base was also giving him a strong sense of feedback. With 2DOF it shouldn't work should it and I therefore do understand the scepticism but whatever the Next Level Racing developers have done in software, you are somehow tricked in to feeling 'something,' which simulates the effect albeit subtlety but enough to react to. Same as VR like you say where disbelief can quickly be suspended and at the end of the day isn't that what immersion is all about, however it's achieved and regardless of whether that simulation completely mirrors the real world.

 

[Mr Latte]

It's easier to nit pick other people's opinions though, Rod. Rather than offer a solution to what he perceives to be a problem with our thinking. No one said that the NL platform replaced the need for rear traction loss. But I have mine in my living room and I'd wager than if anyone's wife were to vote on which system they would prefer to look at (talking about the Stage IV) and listen to every day, I know where my money would be. Would a RTL system ala Stage IV outperform a 2DOF platform such as the V3? Sure, but then again not everyone wants to spend 24 hours to build and AUD $2,000 on SHIPPING for their kit.

For what it is, it does very well. As someone who spends a fair bit of time in it and is also a fairly **** driver, being able to sense the rear stepping out (albeit with a decent wheel base in the CSW V2) I am pleasantly surprised by it's ability to create the movement (however it does it) to allow you to feel what you expect. You know, they way VR doesn't literally put you behind the wheel of a $500k race car, it only pretends to?

Like that.

As a package I dont think we can fault much about the V3, indeed.
Perhaps its still a bit expensive for what it is in components but motion aint cheap.

Nick has a tonne of knowledge on the topic, Id personally like to see something productive in his own sharing or thread. I reckon it would get its fair bit of attention and be welcomed by others. Well more productive than nitpicking here perhaps.

How hard, how much is creating, a decent motion system in 2018 for the d.i.y enthusiasts?
Over to you Nick to show such if you'd consider please!

Rear Traction Loss
I personally sense the back end going via SSW effects in the tactile even with a joypad.
Hard to explain but think its the combination of the "Wheel Slip" and "Lateral G" effects.

Something Simvibe dont do with its own effects and the "Oversteer" effect felt pathetic when I tried it. However I'm convinced SSW if combined with VR, a good wheel and motion would improve a user's sensory feedback, their concentration and consistency, for some even better lap times.

Not to mention a load of fun too....

 

[Furnace Inferno]

For me I think I might need the slight swing movement for immersion only RTL can give. Sure I could add the effect on my wheel or Buttkicker but if it's not coming from where I expect then it doesn't fell right to me. Same reason I'm looking at motion and another Buttkicker under the pedals; in VR I just notice I'm not getting all the physical cues that I didn't mind not having in 2D.

I'll try with just the V3 first and if it's enough to fool me then great, no need to spend anymore money!!

 

[signman]

Rear Traction Loss
I personally sense the back end going via SSW effects in the tactile.
Hard to explain but think its the combination of the "Wheel Slip" and "Lateral G" effects.

With the setup I'm running I have to agree with the above.
My tactile along with SSW really gives the impression of traction loss and lateral G.

Unless you jump in my rig you'd never believe it.
Crazy how much we can kid our brain's.

I have a friend close by who is building a DIY motion rig complete with slip.
He is using Skateboard wheel's..looking forward to trying it soon.


I quite like this motion rig Andre has .

https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=10213463564056416

 

[HoiHman]

I can understand that somebody who has spend a lot of time on building his own TL may look down on the traction loss capabilities of the NLMv3.

It might not be as good as real traction loss, but i can swear i can feel the back of the car sliding when driving in the NLMv3 in VR

 

[anton_Chez]

I'd love to feel the lateral G feeling from SSW. Might have to give another look. Not sure if my Aura's have enough power to simulate that proper but they may well do an OK job.

 

[signman]

I've been running bumps in SSW as low as 15% with 20% filtering in some car's of late.
I think it help's other effects come through better.

 

[anton_Chez]

Meaning I use Simvibe and not SSW at all. So I'd have to re install SSW and muck around with it to try it out. I did at the beginning when it sort of become known here but it felt a little limited with my setup so I didn't continue to meddle with it.

 

[Mascot]

Great thread.
Is it generally accepted that the NL GT Ultimate Racing Cockpit v2 isn't that good? For simplicity I like the idea of a modular solution if I get the V3 motion platform but am getting conflicting reports about the comfort and stability of the cockpit. ISRTV seemed to have nothing but good things to say about it when tested independently and with the V3 motion platform. I use a Fanatec CSR Elite wheel and V1 CSPs mounted to a Playseat rig at the moment, with a Recaro seat swapped in for the standard Playseat one. I can get the GT Ultimate Racing Cockpit v2 with mat and monitor mount effectively for £360, which seems like a good price IF it does the job. I could go the 80/20 route but that would add maybe £500 with a monitor mount.

Any thoughts or advice would be very much appreciated.

 

[Turvey]

Great thread.
Is it generally accepted that the NL GT Ultimate Racing Cockpit v2 isn't that good? For simplicity I like the idea of a modular solution if I get the V3 motion platform but am getting conflicting reports about the comfort and stability of the cockpit. ISRTV seemed to have nothing but good things to say about it when tested independently and with the V3 motion platform. I use a Fanatec CSR Elite wheel and V1 CSPs mounted to a Playseat rig at the moment, with a Recaro seat swapped in for the standard Playseat one. I can get the GT Ultimate Racing Cockpit v2 with mat and monitor mount effectively for £360, which seems like a good price IF it does the job. I could go the 80/20 route but that would add maybe £500 with a monitor mount.

Any thoughts or advice would be very much appreciated.

I got that cock pit, i like the mounting plates and accessories you can get.without being to critical i liked the frame worked for my needs at the time.but the seat......is the biggest pile of rubbish i now have it on my motion rig and cant wait to rid of it . So weigh up seat options into that price.

 

[Mascot]

I got that cock pit, i like the mounting plates and accessories you can get.without being to critical i liked the frame worked for my needs at the time.but the seat......is the biggest pile of rubbish i now have it on my motion rig and cant wait to rid of it . So weigh up seat options into that price.

Thanks. Rubbish in what way? Comfort, support, adjustability, quality? I've read such conflicting reports about this rig, varying from glowing praise to utter contempt.
How are the pedal and wheel supports for you? Are they rock-solid or do they wobble?

 

[Turvey]

Thanks. Rubbish in what way? Comfort, support, adjustability, quality? I've read such conflicting reports about this rig, varying from glowing praise to utter contempt.
How are the pedal and wheel supports for you? Are they rock-solid or do they wobble?

I never had a single problem with pedal and wheel support everything was fine in that department.
The seat is huge bulky pretty uncomfortable adjustments on it are rather poor, its squeaky

 

[Mascot]

I never had a single problem with pedal and wheel support everything was fine in that department.
The seat is huge bulky pretty uncomfortable adjustments on it are rather poor, its squeaky

Ah, thanks for the clarification. Good to hear that the wheel/pedal stands are robust. The seat is an easy swap, I'm sure I'd get my Recaro on there if needed.

What are people's experience with reliability and after-sales with the V3 motion platform? Any QA issues? The main complaint seems to be misaligned assembly holes that need opening up or re-drilling, which rather beggars belief with CAD design and modern manufacturing methods.

 

[Jeremy Ford]

Great thread.
Is it generally accepted that the NL GT Ultimate Racing Cockpit v2 isn't that good? For simplicity I like the idea of a modular solution if I get the V3 motion platform but am getting conflicting reports about the comfort and stability of the cockpit. ISRTV seemed to have nothing but good things to say about it when tested independently and with the V3 motion platform. I use a Fanatec CSR Elite wheel and V1 CSPs mounted to a Playseat rig at the moment, with a Recaro seat swapped in for the standard Playseat one. I can get the GT Ultimate Racing Cockpit v2 with mat and monitor mount effectively for £360, which seems like a good price IF it does the job. I could go the 80/20 route but that would add maybe £500 with a monitor mount.

Any thoughts or advice would be very much appreciated.

The NL Cockpit in my opinion is vastly overrated for the price. Next Level are a significant sponsor on ISR which I feel bent the objectivity of the review. I had the NL Cockpit V2, and still own the NL motion V3. These are manufactured by entirely different companies and it shows. The motion platform is incredibly well engineered. The cockpit is a flexing mess. The NL cheaply made rattling seat and it's wobbly adjustable back is over £500. It's a joke. A real racing seat can cost you as little as £100.

Over Christmas I replaced the NL seat with a Sparco seat. It's something I wanted to do for a while. Well just removing the NL seat was a problem, two of nuts in the seat side of the mount came free, as they're just set in the moulded fibre glass. That's because the motion was too much strain over time for the seat mounting nuts to cope with. As I was now unable to release the bolt, with a pair of pliers and some leverage I pulled the bolt free.

The Sparco seat I use now has changed the profile of how the motion feels, no more rattling or flex, it's just feels more solid.

 

[Mascot]

The NL Cockpit in my opinion is vastly overrated for the price. Next Level are a significant sponsor on ISR which I feel bent the objectivity of the review. I had the NL Cockpit V2, and still own the NL motion V3. These are manufactured by entirely different companies and it shows. The motion platform is incredibly well engineered. The cockpit is a flexing mess. The NL cheaply made rattling seat and it's wobbly adjustable back is over £500. It's a joke. A real racing seat can cost you as little as £100.

Over Christmas I replaced the NL seat with a Sparco seat. It's something I wanted to do for a while. Well just removing the NL seat was a problem, two of nuts in the seat side of the mount came free, as they're just set in the moulded fibre glass. That's because the motion was too much strain over time for the seat mounting nuts to cope with. As I was now unable to release the bolt, with a pair of pliers and some leverage I pulled the bolt free.

View attachment 231300

The Sparco seat I use now has changed the profile of how the motion feels, no more rattling or flex, it's just feels more solid.

Thanks for the benefit of your experience - that's very useful!
You say you had the v2 cockpit, so what do you use now? And which Sparco did you go for? Any photos of your new setup?

£500 just for the seat is madness, but I can get the v2 cockpit, seat, mat and TV mount all for £360 if bought with the V3 motion platform. Would this still be a bad deal based on your time with it?

Reports about flex, strength, build quality etc vary so wildly it makes me think there was a change of manufacturer at some point, or maybe production was also subcontracted out to someone else to cope with demand, and inferior materials/QA were used. Some people swear the v2 cockpit is rock solid, others that it's a wobbly mess. I guess some of this can be down to previous experience, preconceptions and expectations, and different sim racing hardware, but the range of comments is vastly wide.

 

[Turvey]

The NL Cockpit in my opinion is vastly overrated for the price. Next Level are a significant sponsor on ISR which I feel bent the objectivity of the review. I had the NL Cockpit V2, and still own the NL motion V3. These are manufactured by entirely different companies and it shows. The motion platform is incredibly well engineered. The cockpit is a flexing mess. The NL cheaply made rattling seat and it's wobbly adjustable back is over £500. It's a joke. A real racing seat can cost you as little as £100.

Over Christmas I replaced the NL seat with a Sparco seat. It's something I wanted to do for a while. Well just removing the NL seat was a problem, two of nuts in the seat side of the mount came free, as they're just set in the moulded fibre glass. That's because the motion was too much strain over time for the seat mounting nuts to cope with. As I was now unable to release the bolt, with a pair of pliers and some leverage I pulled the bolt free.

View attachment 231300

The Sparco seat I use now has changed the profile of how the motion feels, no more rattling or flex, it's just feels more solid.

Lol i know what you mean when i mounted my chair on my motion platform and pulled the foam up i went ohhhh.... this wont last long.those nuts " molded in the fibre glass you could flick out with minimal effort . I gots a full motion platform so when your on something like dirt rally where it can become quite violent its only a matter of time before my goes the exact same way as your seat.

 

[Turvey]

My seats on this when i get my traction loss add on i dare say it will rip the seat to pieces

 

[Steve D]

What are people's experience with reliability and after-sales with the V3 motion platform? Any QA issues? The main complaint seems to be misaligned assembly holes that need opening up or re-drilling, which rather beggars belief with CAD design and modern manufacturing methods.

I cannot speak highly enough of Next Level's customer support. (I'm based in the UK and believe they are in Queensland, Australia)

Whenever I've required advice or help I've received an email reply within a day or two from Brendan and the latter is rare. The software also has some quick and easy built-in diagnostics and event-logging functionality that you can quickly generate, export and email to Next Level for them to look at if you are experiencing a software or technical issue.

For example I had a problem with the Race Room motion profile failing to work, (resulting in no motion), whenever I set intensity and post-processing to certain values. The issue was acknowledged and a few days later I received a beta driver that fixed the issue for good. Impressive.

More recently I had a more worrying issue where the platform would only move to one side and stay there upon power up. Log files sent and after a couple of days of correspondence NL had diagnosed that an optical sensor inside the unit appeared to have been covered by something and they sent me visual instructions how to quickly investigate and sort it, if I was happy to. They were spot on. I had recently lubricated the main pistons with WD40, (as recommended from time to time) and I had over-sprayed, which resulted in some of the gunk getting inside the unit and covering one of the optical sensors. Anyway, long story short, a quick clean with a cotton bud and all was good to go again and everything has worked perfectly since. My fault entirely as well because I didn't spend 30 seconds unbolting the seat and tipping it forward so that I could access the top of the platform easier and direct the WD40 in a more controlled fashion! Lesson learnt!

Finally, Next Level listen to their customers and welcome suggestions and ideas, which they will consider for future implementation and release. And they acknowledge what you ask for rather than ignore you. I've been hugely impressed and I know that @AntoN_CheZ on here has had a fair bit of involvement with them and made recommendations, which benefit us all and he's had a great response.

With regards misaligned assembly holes, I'm not sure whether you are referring to the V3 or not but if you are I don't think you can say they are misaligned based on the variety of rig types out there that the platform could effectively be mounted to and not just NL's own. As a result you might need to investigate what works best for your particular rig but there will always be a solution. If you are talking about seat mounting then yes, there is an issue if you want to bottom-mount a race seat directly to the platform or runners fixed to it, as a standard race seat typically has 345mm horizontal spacing for underside mounting and the V3 is 355mm between supports. However this is easily overcome with some fettling or by using suitable side-mounts instead and mounting the seat that way, which I've done, albeit I have an 80/20 set up.

Can't speak highly enough about them albeit that's based on my own, personal experience.