Buying advice please - Next Level v3 Motion Platform

[MarkR]

I'm looking for some advice and thoughts of other owners or people with good knowledge of the product, please.

I always said I'd buy myself a motion simulator if I could afford one and had the room available. Well, that day may have arrived. I'm impressed by what I've seen of the Next Level v3 Motion Platform

This seems to meet all my criteria:

+ Limited space requirements, I don't have room for a huge sim rig but this seems compact enough to work.
+ Works with Oculus Rift VR, that fixed head position setting solution is impressive
+ Great support and regular updates from the developers
+ Available in the UK
+ Works with my current Thrustmaster wheel and accessories.
+ Sub £3k for the full setup, I'm not a pro racer I'm not looking for a practice simulator this is just for fun so the cost/fun balance has to be right.

So help me do the man maths! Is it worth it?

Is there another similar product I should also look at? It would need to be reasonably compact, work with VR, available in the UK without too much hassle and in the same £3-5K price range.

Is there anywhere I can try one or even better several of the systems in the UK?

 

[Moxley6969]

Mount a Baby Birds nest with 10 hungry Chicks behind your seat ... That about covers what Actuators sound like in action.


Gear motor's FTW!!!

 

[Furnace Inferno]

I'm thinking NLR then and later add rear traction loss platform but I had a thought, if I upgraded to Heusinkveld Ultimates can it take that much braking force from me pushing against the pedal and is it solid enough for so much force?

 

[anton_Chez]

I'm thinking NLR then and later add rear traction loss platform but I had a thought, if I upgraded to Heusinkveld Ultimates can it take that much braking force from me pushing against the pedal and is it solid enough for so much force?

If you're talking about the GT Ultimate V2 cockpit, then it will take the force but you will feel some flex, depending how good you are at securing all the bolts as tightly as they can be, and also if you are using the extra bracing they give you which connects the front end to the rear. It removes some of the customisation options in the pedal deck but I wouldn't be worried about that as long as the rig fits your person, that's all that should matter. You don't buy $2k pedals for visitors, right?

That being said, look what I have done here:

There are two of these, one on either side. You can stand on my pedal deck and it will not move. Simple bracing with some brackets from work that I cut to size and cleaned the edges up on.

The Ultimate's have around 120kg of maximum pedal force, my CSP V3's have around 90. So, similar load and I have no doubt that if I mounted Ultimate's on my rig they would be fine, with no flex.

Also, the Next Level platform has no option for a rear traction loss module. The only consumer rig that I know of that offers this is the SimXperience Stage 4 (so they say on their website, that it's exclusive to them). I am sure that other rigs offer more DOF than either of these platforms, but at a cost probably out of most people's range and probably less practical as well. If you are keen on rear traction loss physically, then Stage 4 (or an earlier stage that allows you to build into the rear traction loss component later) is your only option. Keep in mind that the NL platform does simulate the rear end through software and does a pretty convincing job without actually moving the rear on a horizontal plane.

 

[Steve D]

Keep in mind that the NL platform does simulate the rear end through software and does a pretty convincing job without actually moving the rear on a horizontal plane.

I can confirm Anton is spot on here and I'm really surprised how good a job the NL platform does of simulating rear traction loss considering there is no movement on a horizontal plane.

What I would say however is that whilst it's pretty effective 'out of the box,' the success of this particular simulated effect, (for me at least), is equally dependent on both the careful set up of the motion platform's individual game profiles, (I use Anton's excellent post processing suggestions but dial down the individual intensity settings due to personal preference) AND setting up force-feedback correctly, both in-game and if available, on the wheel. (I'm using a CSW 2.5 so am also able to set wheel-based ffb profiles for each of the games I play.) With regards the ffb, after much reading online and then a fair amount of experimentation to establish what felt right for me and didn't, I kinda stumbled across a range of settings, (in game and on-wheel), which worked really well for the titles I play, namely AC, AMS, Dirt Rally, PC2 and Raceroom but which fully complimented the motion platform and all the effects it offers both real and simulated.

Indeed it was completely trans-formative in terms of the 'before and after' experience and overall immersion and at first I thought this was simply a case of my mind playing tricks on me. So I switched the motion off and relied on the tweaked ffb and it just wasn't the same and I then did the opposite, i.e. motion on and the ffb at default in-game and on wheel and again the real and simulated effects including traction loss, just didn't feel as immersive.

It's therefore certainly worthwhile putting the effort in to all areas of set up to get the most out of the platform and your own overall experience.

 

[anton_Chez]

Anyone that is interested in my settings for the NL V3 platform (and previous versions for that matter) can let me know and I will create a thread dedicated to it. That way I can just link it or people can search for it when they want to experiment with their new kit. I have evolved my profiles over the course of the year that I have had it and am very happy with where it's at. I am still tweaking but feel I have most things covered.

 

[Jeremy Ford]

I used to have the full NL Cockpit including the motion platform. I still own the NL Motion V3; now mounted to a modified Sim-Lab 80/20 rig. The NL motion platform is fantastic, but not a fan of the NL cockpit, it's not very well made for the cost. There's is lot of flex throughout, the pedal base, wheel base mount, and even the NL chair. There's only so much modding possible and it doesn't fix it all.

If you are considering the NL motion, certainly, it's excellent, but I'd recommend you don't go with the cockpit and look at integrating the motion platform into a different base. The NL platform's small footprint makes this easily possible. Otherwise if that all seems like a lot of hassle, take a look at the ProsimU motion platforms.

 

[signman]

deleted

 

[Furnace Inferno]

I've actually just sold the NLR cockpit and waiting for my Sim Lab P1 rig to be delivered. The Accuforce wheel was just too much for the wheeldeck wobble and I was worried it would just snap off along with reducing FFB quality. Plus I'm not average build so an 80/20 will be much easier to tailor to my height.

I'd be going for attaching it like @Jeremy Ford has done so what I'm worried about is if I'm pressing hard against such a heavy brake will it negatively impact the V3 motion from the force as it's built for 130kg weight but how does my 95kg + seat + 100kg of horizontal leg force get factored in? I don't want to get a solid rig and then have a motion platform ruin it sort of thing by having the same back and forth wobble as the cockpit chair had in the sliders.

As for rear traction loss I'd be thinking about DIY mounting the whole rig on top off the simxperience rear traction loss kit. It's not as expensive as I thought to ship to the UK at ~£1700 + DIY parts to mount it's probably around £2k total.

 

[Jeremy Ford]

I've actually just sold the NLR cockpit and waiting for my Sim Lab P1 rig to be delivered. The Accuforce wheel was just too much for the wheeldeck wobble and I was worried it would just snap off along with reducing FFB quality. Plus I'm not average build so an 80/20 will be much easier to tailor to my height.

I'd be going for attaching it like @Jeremy Ford has done so what I'm worried about is if I'm pressing hard against such a heavy brake will it negatively impact the V3 motion from the force as it's built for 130kg weight but how does my 95kg + seat + 100kg of horizontal leg force get factored in? I don't want to get a solid rig and then have a motion platform ruin it sort of thing by having the same back and forth wobble as the cockpit chair had in the sliders.

As for rear traction loss I'd be thinking about DIY mounting the whole rig on top off the simxperience rear traction loss kit. It's not as expensive as I thought to ship to the UK at ~£1700 + DIY parts to mount it's probably around £2k total.

I'm running HE Pro pedals, I never considered the brake pressure pushing against the seat causing an issue, it's a fair question though. No it doesn't interfere with the motion platform when braking. Also, even if you do set the 100% brake at 100kg, your not actually pushing 100Kg through your leg as there's leverage involved by the design of the pedal.

 

[Steve D]

I have a Sim Labs P1 with Fanatec V3 pedals, (so not as grand as the HEs) and an NLM V3, which supports a Sparco on sliders. The V3 is mounted in a similar way to Jerry's solution albeit modified to take in to account the tighter internal dimensions of the P1.

The V3 is a remarkable piece of kit for the money IMHO and appears to be extremely robust. And whilst there is movement it feels entirely natural as it's linked to the motion effects, which are driven by what you and the car are doing and experiencing, even if those effects are not entirely within the realms of what happens in the real world based on the DOF limitations of the platform. However it just works in terms of immersion and I'm sure you've watched the Inside Sim Racing review on You Tube, which provides a good overview.

With regards braking specifically, when stamping on the pedal you are pitched forward by the platform, the strength and intensity of which is dependent on how you set up that particular effect within the game profile, which is adjustable as I alluded to in an earlier thread. If progressive braking then that effect is still present but it's progressive as well and is still sufficient to counter the forces going the other way. So don't worry about applying all that force in anger, (and remember pedal leverage will be a reducing factor) and pushing the seat back, feeling it give way or wobble or exposing a weakness in the platform based on it's weight limitations because that just won't be the case, unless you physically push back hard against it with your arms and upper body as well.

If you go for it, I'm pretty sure that you'll find the platform won't ruin the experience but significantly enhance it.

 

[Furnace Inferno]

Ok great, thanks for the info, it was more concern the motors would struggle and would flex back under the force.

 

[Jeremy Ford]

I have a Sim Labs P1 with Fanatec V3 pedals, (so not as grand as the HEs) and an NLM V3, which supports a Sparco on sliders.

Can you tell me did you use the official Sparco seat slider? And if so was there enough free play in the hole alignment on the sliders with no need need to drill larger holes on either the sliders or NL platform base to bridge the 10mm width difference between the hole alignments.

What I mean is the Sparco bottom mount holes width are 345mm apart. On the NL base it's 355mm apart.

 

[Steve D]

Can you tell me did you use the official Sparco seat slider? And if so was there enough free play in the hole alignment on the sliders with no need need to drill larger holes on either the sliders or NL platform base to bridge the 10mm width difference between the hole alignments.

What I mean is the Sparco bottom mount holes width are 345mm apart. On the NL base it's 355mm apart.

Hi Jerry,

Not sure if I've understood you correctly as the runner mount length on each side of the platform is 320mm and the width between runners, (i.e. side to side), is 355mm.

So in terms of the Sparco seat runner / slider yep, I used the official one and it fits on top of the platform without issue or any additional drilling required anywhere, especially as the mounting holes on the platform are extended at each end to allow for some play.

If however you are talking about seat mounting where the 355mm width comes in to play then again I used official Sparco mounting brackets, (secured to the top of the sliders) and side-mounted the seat to them. As you've indicated there is a 10mm difference between the platform and seat bottom mounting width so it wasn't possible to bottom mount the seat directly to the sliders. Note that the brackets I used (link below) have extending mounting holes in the base to accommodate side-mounting a seat which is a little bit wider than the 355mm platform width. All worked out really neatly.

http://www.sportseats4u.co.uk/sparco-seat-sliding-rails/prod_764.html

Happy to send some pics if you like.

 

[Jeremy Ford]

Hi Jerry,

Not sure if I've understood you correctly as the runner mount length on each side of the platform is 320mm and the width between runners, (i.e. side to side), is 355mm.

So in terms of the Sparco seat runner / slider yep, I used the official one and it fits on top of the platform without issue or any additional drilling required anywhere, especially as the mounting holes on the platform are extended at each end to allow for some play.

If however you are talking about seat mounting where the 355mm width comes in to play then again I used official Sparco mounting brackets, (secured to the top of the sliders) and side-mounted the seat to them. As you've indicated there is a 10mm difference between the platform and seat bottom mounting width so it wasn't possible to bottom mount the seat directly to the sliders. Note that the brackets I used (link below) have extending mounting holes in the base to accommodate side-mounting a seat which is a little bit wider than the 355mm platform width. All worked out really neatly.

http://www.sportseats4u.co.uk/sparco-seat-sliding-rails/prod_764.html

Happy to send some pics if you like.

Thanks Mac, you've answered the question for me perfectly. I was thinking about Sparco seats with bottom mounting holes only, but you've got side mount holes which changes things up with the addition of side mount seat brackets.

The reason I asked is, in the last couple of days I swapped out the original NL seat with bottom mount Sparco seat. I'm using the old sliders and bridging the mounting hole difference with some aluminium profile like this. I really didn't want to extend the holes in the NL base.

The solution works just fine and the motion feels great, but at the cost of raising the centre of mass for the motion motors to work against and the seat is a little bit heavier than before. Probably not an issue for me to be concerned about, but your reply got me thinking so took the opportunity to check on your mounting method.

Cheers for the details.

 

[HoiHman]

Anyone that is interested in my settings for the NL V3 platform (and previous versions for that matter) can let me know and I will create a thread dedicated to it. That way I can just link it or people can search for it when they want to experiment with their new kit. I have evolved my profiles over the course of the year that I have had it and am very happy with where it's at. I am still tweaking but feel I have most things covered.

If you're wllling to share your settings Anton YES please

I've my NLMv3 for almost a year now and haven't touched the tuning menu since the previous update. Pretty happy with my settings, but i'm always open to learn more and improve my motion experience.

 

[anton_Chez]

I don't think the brake force is an issue at all. The platform is really sturdy. I have 90kg load cell, but I am sure that I am never using 90kg of force to slow my vehicle. I think you're doing it wrong if you require full load cell resistance capacity every time to activate your brakes. It should be a gradual thing and even if you did stamp on them the force is not solely being placed back onto the motors. It's a fair question but once you use it even on a not-so-great rig like the GT Ultimate V2, you should feel comfortable. He HE pro pedals only have 50 odd kg's of load cell resistance so that should tell you that even in a high end pedal, you shouldn't need to move the earth to slow the car.

P.S Hoi I will get them sorted into a legible order and create a thread. Hang out for it

 

[aliolemon]

I think i read once that the Fanatec Clubsport V3 Pedals just got a 90kg load cell that can handle 90kg
but actualy you just need a force lesser than 30kg to push the brake pedal complet down

 

[anton_Chez]

That sounds about right. I was actually pressing on purpose before to test it out and I have the brake performance kit also, which can make it harder to press and also lessens the travel of the pedal. No way that it can hurt the motion platform. Not in my mind anyway.

 

[Moxley6969]

More TL talk outta a 2dof seat mover, Riiiiiiight.


For Fun please explain the data behind a TL movement. Lets see how much yall think you know.

 

[anton_Chez]

More TL talk outta a 2dof seat mover, Riiiiiiight.


For Fun please explain the data behind a TL movement. Lets see how much yall think you know.

I sense an air of sarcasm. What do you hope to achieve out of your comment?