AMS 2 FFB Discussion

[Manuel Staedel]

I just tested all settings,
RAW, informative, imersive, more FFB, lower FFB, LowForceBoost 0 40 80...
What I found was the same FFB like in pCARS2, the same damage jolt effekts, when you driving on small bumps, the over powered force, when the car are oversteering, the les details about the rear axle.
It's for me, the biggest disappointment in the year.
You don't beleive me?
Please take a seat in the StockCar or the Falcon V8, starting in Spielberg with clear wather in both games.
The detailed, RAW, real and comprehensible FFB, you are only get in AMS1. The same like rFactor2, but much more heavyer.
In rF² you feel the gene of rF². It's not like AMS but near of it.

AMS2-Beta is for me pCARS2 and i am realy sad, because my hope was realy big. So many people say "Stop! It's pCARS2! You should not beleve that it can be better!" But i say, "No, that are not SMS, they are Reiza Studios,, they have good guys, the have got Nils and he knows what he do."

What shuld i say?
I am realy sad and hopeless because that pCARS2-feeling will be not gone after the final release. If that be possible, than only with deleting it and copy paste from AMS1.
But what i know now, when you want to say, "Shut up and take my money!" Think before it. It's funny but expensive some times.

Best wiches from Germany, Manuel

I just testet the Ultima, OldStock, AJR... All the same. No Reiza-Feeling.
Kart and Caterham too. Are the 310HP Caterham damage? More than 170km/h not possible an Spielberg.

Btw.:
I am using the SimuCUBE without any damping or filterring.
But, AMS1 feels grate, too with the G27.

 

[vinnefreerider]

I don't know if it can help ... today I did a lot of tests (5 hours) with the latest version EA v0.8.0.2 ... I have the Logitech g920 steering wheel and I followed Reiza's advice ...
- The GAIN should not be set to 100 as in other games (to then change the other values according to your tastes), but should be kept very low if the steering wheel is powerful (DD and Fanatec for example) for example Reiza recommends 10-20. .. while with the cheaper steering wheels and with less engine force, the value goes a little higher (Reiza recommends starting from 50), I with my g920 I set it to 40, with this value I greatly reduce the excessive pendulum effect from weight transfer ... to find your correct value, reset all the other settings and reduce until the weight transfer effect becomes manageable without clipping ... ;
- the LFB is a setting that manages to fill the gaps of the cheapest steering wheels like my g920 ... raising this value greatly reduces the dead zone and increases the effects at low speeds, I found myself very well with the value 80 ... now I have a smaller dead zone and the information is more complete ... those who have very powerful steering wheels (DD) even prefer to almost reset it;
- the FX does not set the fake effects as in other games, but adds to your steering wheel the vibrations of the sliding of the tires, the curbs and the vibrations of the engine / chassis (the latter can be verified especially when the car is stationary for example when accelerating in neutral, if you feel it well otherwise raise it to your liking) ... also this setting should work inversely proportional with the GAIN, especially with the economic steering wheels like my g920, i.e. if the gain is very low, for add the effects, you have to turn it up a lot ... in my case (since I have set a gain of 40) I can only perceive it if I raise it to 70, which might seem high but not increase the problem of the steering wheel with the defect of excessive transfer weight, also now I feel the vibrations and the sliding of the car in curves ... this does not apply to the DD as there is no lack of power and effects and therefore it could remain low or zeroed.

So summing up, in the current state of the game (EA 0.8.0.2), for my G920 I found these values very pleasant and informative:
GAIN 40
LFB 80
FX 70

I hope it will serve you and sorry for my english

I tried your settings and tips and I can say it improves a lot.
I think they changed something to better on this latest version.

thank you

 

[Stakanov]

So Reiza didn't actually recommend starting with 50% on G29. Gotcha.

Yes 50 for start and "It is also indicated the other value with higher value of LFB for LG2x" .... and 50 to 40 is not that much different, and I started from 50 and then I went down to 40 so ?? ... but then what does "ghotcha" have to do with it ... how old are you 3?
If you have the g29 and you think it is useful to try it to reduce the pendulum effect well otherwise I don't know how to help you ... the ffb is subjective do as you like ... let's go on

 

[Stakanov]

I tried your settings and tips and I can say it improves a lot.
I think they changed something to better on this latest version.

thank you

I enjoy it ... if in the future they should change the forces of the FFB then we will change the GAIN value

 

[Case_]

Yes 50 for start and "It is also indicated the other value with higher value of LFB for LG2x" .... and 50 to 40 is not that much different, and I started from 50 and then I went down to 40 so ?? ... but then what does "ghotcha" have to do with it ... how old are you 3?

I'm really getting kinda lost in what you're trying to say. You claimed that Reiza recommend starting with gain at 50 on a G29. That's not true. Don't know what else is there to say or why you mention LFB in this.

And sadly no, I'm not 3 yet. But I will be soon.

 

[DEIC]

Official post by Renato regarding ffb on Reiza forum hope this will clear so things

Automobilista 2 Force Feedback - Overview & Recommendations

Automobilista 2 features a rather simple but highly accurate FFB system, very similar to the RealFeel system used in its predecessor AMS1 - in both...

forum.reizastudios.com

"Automobilista 2 features a rather simple but highly accurate FFB system, very similar to the RealFeel system used in its predecessor AMS1 - in both sims all FFB output to the player are comprised of forces acting on the steering arms, translated over to the steering rack, which are dynamically affected by the ever-changing conditions while driving. Try bending front suspension you'll clearly see steering not centering anymore, as the suspension geometry changed.

Similarly, the steering column torque is affected by car setup - directly by Caster angle (as it changes lateral force leverage on steering ) and steering lock, as lower lock angles lead to a higher steering ratio, which in turn leads to all forces being dilluted into a higher steering range (the opposite is true when increasing the steering lock). FFB will also be indirectly affected by aero, tyre compound and presure settings - basically anything that affects the peak forces being produced on the tyres will make the FFB ligther or stiffer. This why karts for example have very stiff steering even though these are very light vehicles, the Caster angle is very high and all forces are concentrated on a very narrow steering range.

It´s important to observe the FFB system, like everything else in AMS2 is still under active development - things may still change and evolve, and as they do we will amend this article to reflect it.

Below is an overview of the Force Feedback settings and our recommendations on how to tune them:


PROFILE: Currently there is only one, Default profile - you should only change to "Custom" if you have modified ffb_custom_settings.txt file in MyDocs/Automobilista 2 folder - if you haven´t changed that file, "Custom" will be no different from "Default" profile.


GAIN: Defines maximum force output. The default 100% setting has some clipping built-in, specially on high downforce vehicles as in these the steering column torque can easily exceed 30Nm when car is under heavy load in a fast corners, while front tires are fully gripping and self-aligning torque is very high

For Direct Drive wheels, it is recommended to set gain around 40-50%. This has thus far been tested mostly on a Fanatec DD1 base. Stronger wheels may use even lower Gain values.


LOW FORCE BOOST: Similarly to AMS1, LFB serves as an "amplifier" of FFB when tyres are relatively unloaded, useful specially for wheels with weaker motors like in Logitech G2X wheels, to enhance these lower range forces without necessarily adding clipping to the top range.

If you feel the FFB is lacking or "limp" when travelling at slower speeds or during straights, you may want to experiment with some level of LFB - may be set as high as 80% in Logitech G2X or other similar wheels, while stronger Fanatec / Thrustmaster wheels should be set somewhere in the range of 30-60%.

Even if you have a Direct Drive wheel and are unsatisfied with the force output while tyres are unloaded, you may use Low Force Boost @ 10-30% without concern for clipping high forces as LFB only applies at the lower end of the force range and will never saturate / introduce clipping on it's own.


FX: Adds a little vibration from the engine as it goes through the RPM range (very faint, and linked to the engine´s actual angular velocity); it also adds a "Tyre Scrub" effect, which is a function of tyre vibration that would naturally transfer as vibration onto wheel rim, driven by actual physics signal.


MENU SPRING controls wheel centering spring only while navigating the UI. For DD wheels it should be set to 0 or some other very low value.

EDIT1:
Controller Damping in the UI relates to gamepad & other digital controllers only - it´s NOT a FFB setting.

Currently, we do not control damping and friction from in game. Both are important on DD wheels. We will later model these from physics directly.

Recommended settings for DD1 Fanatec:
Damper: 25
Friction: 5
Inertia: 10
Interpolation: 4 (this is largely down to personal preference. On SimuCube this could be "Reconstruciton filter", some others "smoothing")

Recommended settings for Logitech G2X wheels:

These are from AMS1 but remain relevant for AMS2, except damper & spring are currently not applied to AMS2.

More to come as we get direct experience with a larger range of wheels - in the meantime you can find several user suggestions in replies to this topic. "

 

[Stakanov]

I'm really getting kinda lost in what you're trying to say. You claimed that Reiza recommend starting with gain at 50 on a G29. That's not true. Don't know what else is there to say or why you mention LFB in this.
And sadly no, I'm not 3 yet. But I will be soon.

I told you that I don't speak English (sorry my English), when I write here I use google translator, in the first post I wrote that I followed "Reyza's advice", it's improper ... when you asked me I asked you specified that I followed the advice from the Reiza forum and that they were not official guides ... THERE IS NO NEED TO LOOK FOR WHO WANT TO LIE, IT IS NOT A THRILLER ... as the forces on the FFB are too strong on the G29 / G920, since on DDs (which have a high traction) it is advised to lower our strength, as users recommended it on the forum, I deduced that the way to currently solve the problem (if the problem is not fixed) was to reduce the GAIN and to follow the Reiza indications on the LFB at 80 ... at present without a correction and / or update is the only solution even if the steering wheel is lighter !!!
Everyone writes it on the Reiza forum, also yesterday I made a request to Mr. Renato Simioni, especially since they wrote on the website (in the advice for the FBB) to set the value 100 in the LGxx as a starting point as AMS1 (2 or 3 days ago).
If you have read the forum you know that Mr. Renato is investigating the problem by trying the G29 and he should either find the solution shortly or prepare a fix to solve the problem.
LET'S TALK ABOUT FFB ... AT THIS TIME FOR ME THE BEST IS 40-80-70 (+/- 10 TO TASTE)

Automobilista 2 Force Feedback - Overview & Recommendations

 

[Case_]

as the forces on the FFB are too strong on the G29 / G920, since on DDs (which have a high traction) it is advised to lower our strength

Well, OK. If you say so.

 

[RaceNut]

My revised settings (DD-wheels) based on AMS2 (beta 0.8.0.1)
Reference Car: P3 Class / Metalmoro (First of three in list)

SimuCube1 @100% Output (20Nm small Mige)

• Recon-Filter to 6
• Friction: 0.8%
• Damping: 1.5%
• Direct-Input effects not used by AMS2

AMS2

• Gain (35-40%) Balance force levels in combination with LFB level
• LFB (15-25%) Useful to reduce the range of effects / Increasing can reduce extreme forces (combined with lower Gain)
• FX (15-25%) May become harsh above 30%

For SimuCube2 // DD1 // DD2 systems, Friction & Damping as shown above to be multiplied by 10 (Example: 1.5% in SC1 = 15% in SC2).

Note: Direct-Drive wheel settings do not generally correlate to non-DD wheel settings.
Some cars will still likely need some Gain adjustments to address stronger / weaker FFB levels until they are further normalized.

 

[andrea1978]

Just two questions:
1) do you think that the ffb custom setting file stored in document folder is the same of the default ffb?
2) do you think that it can be used in PC2?
Thanks

 

[HI-tauer]

Just two questions:
1) do you think that the ffb custom setting file stored in document folder is the same of the default ffb?
2) do you think that it can be used in PC2?
Thanks

1) yes - confirmed
2) no - doesnt contain 80% of the values pc2 needs..

 

[Stakanov]

With the latest update (0.8.2.0) I can now set the gain on my g920 to 60 (before I used 40) without clipping (range 50-70 as desired and depending on the cars) ... it is not 100 as recommended but it is a good improvement ... the FFB is more defined and full-bodied than before ... the rest of the settings have remained unchanged, that is, LFB 80 and FX 60-70 (but this is at your pleasure).

 

[andrea1978]

I'm quite sure that most of people that compare AMS2 to PC2 did not spend more than few hours in PC2 (and maybe just at first release, not after the last patches), continuosly switching cars .

It is "impossible" to say that the FFB is the same among the two sims.

PC2 has three different FFB setting, strongly different among them. Furthermore you have the custom setting (eg. Jack Spade). But people never say "AMS2 is the same of raw PC2" or "...informative PC2" or "...Jack Spade PC2"... it is just "the same".

So, plese simply report that you dont like AMS2 ffb, but please not compare to PC2: there are some similarities, maybe influenced by physics too... but they are not the same.

 

[UMC 22]

So, plese simply report that you dont like AMS2 ffb, but please not compare to PC2: there are some similarities, maybe influenced by physics too... but they are not the same.

^^This. The endless comparisons with PCars just because they use the same underlying engine is pretty meaningless. It's like comparing Borderlands 3 and Tropico 6 just because they both use Unreal Engine. They're completely different games made by completely different developers, and both should be judged on their own merits... and AMS 2 with the fact that it isn't finished in mind, whereas PCars 2 is.

 

[MarcG]

^^This. The endless comparisons with PCars just because they use the same underlying engine is pretty meaningless. It's like comparing Borderlands 3 and Tropico 6 just because they both use Unreal Engine. They're completely different games made by completely different developers, and both should be judged on their own merits... and AMS 2 with the fact that it isn't finished in mind, whereas PCars 2 is.

I did request a while back this thread be locked (or title changed) as it's incredibly misleading, especially as this thread was started during Beta after which there's been many many changes to FFB since. Might be an idea to start a fresh, in case people coming here see this headline, read this thread and come to the incorrect assumptions.

 

[UMC 22]

I know, I've seen various people requesting that posts/threads be removed, edited or locked for inaccuracy or whatever else. Unfortunately, the moment I perform this kind of forum editing once, I'll be inundated by people demanding I do it again and again, and 90% of the time it'll be over differences of opinion rather than actual fact vs fiction. Going through all that would be a full-time job, and half the time I'm not really sure myself what is fact or not without direct experience of the matter in question. I can't just rely on what other people tell me.

At the end of the day I'm here to moderate the forum, not to edit it's content for accuracy. For that we rely on the community to challenge and correct inaccuracies (in a mature and civil manner of course) so that the facts come to the surface. It's not a perfect method but it's the only viable one.

 

[b)b]

So all future discussions about FFB will happen in a thread titled "The FFB is disappointing or just like pCARS2" ?
I would lock this thread really. It has run this course and new ones can be created to discuss FFB.

 

[MarcG]

I know, I've seen various people requesting that posts/threads be removed, edited or locked for inaccuracy or whatever else. Unfortunately, the moment I perform this kind of forum editing once, I'll be inundated by people demanding I do it again and again, and 90% of the time it'll be over differences of opinion rather than actual fact vs fiction. Going through all that would be a full-time job, and half the time I'm not really sure myself what is fact or not without direct experience of the matter in question. I can't just rely on what other people tell me.

At the end of the day I'm here to moderate the forum, not to edit it's content for accuracy. For that we rely on the community to challenge and correct inaccuracies (in a mature and civil manner of course) so that the facts come to the surface. It's not a perfect method but it's the only viable one.

Then get another mod to do it

 

[UMC 22]

Appreciate what you're saying guys, but no "editing" is going to take place. Feel free to start a new thread on the FFB though, to get a new, up-to-date discussion going. That way this old info will slowly get lost in favour of more relevant content.

 

[Miguel Batista]

So all future discussions about FFB will happen in a thread titled "The FFB is disappointing or just like pCARS2" ?
I would lock this thread really. It has run this course and new ones can be created to discuss FFB.

Even better, lock this one, create a new pinned thread for FFB discussion. I think it would be better than keeping this one which introduces a bias in the title immediately.

 

[UMC 22]

For the last time, I'm not locking this thread or editing the forum, so please stop asking.

Every time someone posts in this thread it gets bumped up to the top of the forum for all to see. Stop posting here and it'll all go away.