2013 Formula One Australian Grand Prix

[Hampus Andersson]

People need to understand that the car will aquaplan regardless of speed.
It´s not the tires that aquaplan but the whole floor.

You can´t compare with Senna´s time where the cars had considerably higher ride heights and way softer then it is today.
It´s night and day and not even Senna himself can save the car from crashing in Aquaplaning.
You are a passenger,

Then we have the "stay off the white lines". Well that´s great but keep in mind most lines have been painted black so good luck seeing that.

And they never had this competent tires they have today as full wets. They probably got rid of 10% of the water these Pirelli´s can send right up in the air.

 

[Diego Lopez]

they had Traction Control and ABS in 2007, also cars were very different

true true, but still the amount of people going off even with TC.

just how it feels....

 

[ufunacaoenn]

Hampus has a valid point but, I personally believe that FIA needs to some how make the rules clear of how wet the track can be before they delay a race or qualify because I personally believe that the teams should be 100% forced to built a car that is good both on a wet track and on a dry, same goes for any tire manufacturer.

 

[Diego Lopez]

Hampus has a valid point but, I personally believe that FIA needs to some how make the rules clear of how wet the track can be before they delay a race or qualify because I personally believe that the teams should be 100% forced to built a car that is good both on a wet track and on a dry, same goes for any tire manufacturer.

They HAVE the option of running a higher height ride and having a good wet set up, however the rules of not being able to change the set up except for the front wing for the race is what is keeping them from running confidently.

Also you would think that Pirelli or Goodyear or Bridgestone, MIchellin, etc by this time, realize that they need at least 1 to 2 sets of uber wet tyres, not just wet, but tyres with deeper grooves, etc.

 

[Metalfreaky]

It makes no sense to built an extra monsoon tyre and ship it constanly around the world. Again like Hampus said the limiting factor is not the tyre. A monsoon tyre would not change much.

 

[Scott Webber]

~

 

[Markus Neumann]

It makes no sense to built an extra monsoon tyre and ship it constanly around the world.

Doesn't make any less sense than building the wet tyre and shipping it around. Pretty much every time the teams use the wet tyres a session is interrupted because they are not good enough. Seems there is a very narrow window for when they are useful.

Again like Hampus said the limiting factor is not the tyre.

This is true. But I honestly don't see why the FIA wouldn't just allow the teams to change the cars ride height even after parc ferme rules if the session is classified as wet.

Additionally, the weather really wasn't that bad today. Only Massa (which is nothing special, he is pretty much guaranteed to spin if it rains) and some of the rookies crashed. That means it was still skill-based and not just randomly catching out people (such as Silverstone 2012, when even Schumacher and Alonso spun because they randomly hit some standing water).
In Korea 2010 or Canada 2011 (pretty much the same cars as now), the weather was way worse than today during the time in which they were driving. The FIA is getting even more timid.

 

[Jordi Casademunt]

Get rid of parc ferme rule please.

 

[Ketnix]

It makes no sense to built an extra monsoon tyre and ship it constanly around the world. Again like Hampus said the limiting factor is not the tyre. A monsoon tyre would not change much.

The wet tyre is 10mm greater in diameter compared to slicks, so there is some effort to raise the ride hight.

At the end of the day the tyres arn't the problem with standing water, its the floor that hits the water and decides to float over it uncontrolably, as you and others have said.

We shouldn't be thinking about getting rid of the parc ferme rules, then you'll just see teams setting optimal setups for quali and race, which I think lessons the fun of the game. You've got to make a decision with setting up the car, pure pace for quali might get you on the front row but could leave you haning in the race.

However - if the FIA are going to act like they've just done more in the future, than im willing to allow for atleast ride hight changes in 'extreme' weather conditions.

 

[Hampus Andersson]

Pretty much every time the teams use the wet tyres a session is interrupted because they are not good enough.

That´s not the problem..

Again. Aquaplanning. No tire or skill in the world can solve that problem.

 

[Bram Hengeveld]

Yeah in the 80s aquaplanning was not invented yet

 

[Markus Neumann]

That´s not the problem..

Again. Aquaplanning. No tire or skill in the world can solve that problem.

You do realize that, right underneath of what you quoted, I agreed with that, right?

 

[the_sigman]

http://www.f1fanatic.co.uk/2013/03/16/fia-telemetry-glitch-drs-problems/

 

[Hampus Andersson]

You do realize that, right underneath of what you quoted, I agreed with that, right?

I reacted on the "tires are not good enough". Which simply isn´t true.
they are in many ways too good as you present visibility problems because they are so efficient at getting rid of water.

 

[Markus Neumann]

I reacted on the "tires are not good enough". Which simply isn´t true.
they are in many ways too good as you present visibility problems because they are so efficient at getting rid of water.

I have to admit, I am honestly unsure about that. I remember two seperate interviews with Paul Hembery, the first one was at Malaysia last year when he said that the tyres could easily take even more water. The second one, I think, was at Silverstone or something, he said that even those tyres have their limit and that they had reached it. So I'm not sure which is true

Edit: Just rewatched the first interview. He says that the wet tyres can displace 60l of water per second. Unfortunately I can't find the second one because it happened during qualifying which I did not record.

Edit: Found something else: http://www.auto123.com/en/news/f1-drivers-criticize-pirellis-wet-tires?artid=146074
Apparently, at least Timo Glock says that they can definitely be the cause of aquaplaning.

 

[Metalfreaky]

This is true. But I honestly don't see why the FIA wouldn't just allow the teams to change the cars ride height even after parc ferme rules if the session is classified as wet.

Additionally, the weather really wasn't that bad today. Only Massa (which is nothing special, he is pretty much guaranteed to spin if it rains) and some of the rookies crashed. That means it was still skill-based and not just randomly catching out people (such as Silverstone 2012, when even Schumacher and Alonso spun because they randomly hit some standing water).

The session was not interruppted during Q1. It was delayed after Q1 because it started to rain quite heavily again. The conditions during Q1 were not the problem

 

[Bram Hengeveld]

Lets hope that someday F1 will become the sport again where its all about innovations.

Imean the year that Mansell became world champion in the Williams was maybe not the most exciting season ever but sure there were some groundbreaking developments that year where the car industry today still benefits from.

Adaptive ride heights, active suspension and gearboxes, variomatic transmissions and a sick engine, loved it all Real innovation stopped 20 years ago.

Older F1 generation drivers would shout a firm LOL stepped on the gas and destroyed those little puddles by racing right through them while leaving a huge spray of sparkles because of bottoming out with a full tank.

 

[Ketnix]

Teams arn't interested in that sort of 'inovation', it really isn't inovation if we go back to larger engines etc.

One of the reasons why we don't have many manufactor's in F1 is simply because it ceased to become relevant for them. The world is moving on in smaller and lighter technologies, energy recovery systems and the such. When the rules and regulations reflect what many manufactors believe is the way forward in the motoring industry then im sure we'll see a return of some of the big names (the new engine formula is filled with rumours of possible manufactorer returns).

Don't get me wrong, I miss many of the cars of old, but F1 is going to be left behind if it doesn't move on with the rest of the world. And a part of that is moving with the rest of the motoring world.

(Im typing this at 4:16am, so this probably doesn't even make sense, don't tear me to pieces )

 

[Bram Hengeveld]

I didn't say a larger engine. I said a sick engine

Just add some amazing turbo pressure to those new V6 engines in the future and you'll see that values of 1000bhp can be easily reached again.

Next year the cars have 600 horses. With all respect that is not longer a F1 value. Should be called Formula 0.5 then.

 

[Ketnix]

Well being a bit more descriptive would of cleared that.

In that sense I think the new V6 turbos and ERU are 'sick'. The Mercedes one is already tipped at producing the same amount of horsepower, the energy recovoury unit now plays a larger part, producing far more power than current KERS. Which I think is pretty facinating, still abit behind the endurance field technology whise, but a huge step.