2012 HRT F112

Minardi struggled for years to get the cars and drivers on the grid, but was always there. Until now the same accounts for HRT..
Had the guys behind Minardi known the future before they entered F1 they would never have entered at all.

Minardi struggled every year. Most points they gathered in a season was 7. And that was with 23 years of Formula 1 experience.
Also a joke that should have been killed a long time ago.
 
Had the guys behind Minardi known the future before they entered F1 they would never have entered at all.

Minardi struggled every year. Most points they gathered in a season was 7. And that was with 23 years of Formula 1 experience.
Also a joke that should have been killed a long time ago.
I completely disagree. many people fellt something for Minardi. Minardi was a true race fan. And I'd rather have that kind of guys running an F1 team, than a Toyota, BMW or Renault who pull out when things don't go like they want.. Who're just there for brand image..
I'm happy that short 'car brand era' from 2001-2009 is no more... THAT was fake F1, just for being there for a brand, instead of being there for the sport they love..

Also you shouldn't forget that back in time you could reach a lot if the car was just reliable. Nowadays every car is reliable thanks to the stupid engine development cap..
 
I completely disagree. many people fellt something for Minardi. Minardi was a true race fan. And I'd rather have that kind of guys running an F1 team, than a Toyota, BMW or Renault who pull out when things don't go like they want.. Who're just there for brand image..
I'm happy that short 'car brand era' from 2001-2009 is no more... THAT was fake F1, just for being there for a brand, instead of being there for the sport they love..
You are contradicting yourself.

Toyota, BMW and Renault have businesses outside Formula 1. If those businesses don´t go well, then there is no possibility for them to be in F1. If they can´t make a business case for being in F1 because they don´t have the money, they pull out, like any sane company would do.

Funny you say they are not there for the fact that they love F1....

BMW has been around F1 since the 1950´s..
Toyota has been around F1 since 1950´s..
Renault has been around F1 since the late 70´s.

They unlike Minardi won´t go into F1 half assed because there´s no point and because you will only lose dollar after dollar.

They run car companies, if those companies don´t run well it means the F1 teams can´t exist.
They are smart and enter F1 when they can. that is the smart way to do things if you want to survive as a company.

This is the reason why Minardi don´t exist anymore but BMW, Toyota and Renault still do.
 
You are contradicting yourself.

Toyota, BMW and Renault have businesses outside Formula 1. If those businesses don´t go well, then there is no possibility for them to be in F1. If they can´t make a business case for being in F1 because they don´t have the money, they pull out, like any sane company would do.

Funny you say they are not there for the fact that they love F1....

BMW has been around F1 since the 1950´s..
Toyota has been around F1 since 1950´s..
Renault has been around F1 since the late 70´s.

They unlike Minardi won´t go into F1 half assed because there´s no point and because you will only lose dollar after dollar.

They run car companies, if those companies don´t run well it means the F1 teams can´t exist.
They are smart and enter F1 when they can. that is the smart way to do things if you want to survive as a company.

This is the reason why Minardi don´t exist anymore but BMW, Toyota and Renault still do.
I'm nowhere contradicting myself. The brands are not there for the love of F1. They're just there for sales of their road cars and brand image. I still keep at my opinion.
The BMW's in the '50 were privately entered, no team support. In the 60's they were in F2..
In the 80's they had some awesome turbo engines, but when that stopped, they pulled out.
Than around 2000 Williams used BMW engines, they wanted to buy out Williams, but he didn't want to. Than Sauber was the best victim, because entering a full new team is more expensive than taking over an other team..
And they pulled out because things didn't go like they wanted.

Renault entered in F1 to experiment with turbo engines and make their brand well known. No other reason behind that.
After that they still were a great engine supplier, but imo the sole reason they entered F1 as a team was because other brands were there as well, it was the podium to show things off.

Toyota has as far as I know never been in F1 before 2002. They;ve been in rallying etc. But F1 was just there to stay in touch with the other brands. But Toyota wanted to make/do everything themselves, just like Ferrari. they didn't want to be just an engine supplier. Renault and Jaguar were there and other brands had engines. Again, just to show off how good they are. Nothing (imo) because they loved F1.

Someone who really loves F1 will stay there, whether it goes bad or good. Just look at Frank Williams, or Giancarlo Minardi.
 
I'm nowhere contradicting myself. The brands are not there for the love of F1. They're just there for sales of their road cars and brand image. I still keep at my opinion.
But don´t you see you are contradicting yourself?

On one hand you say that they are only there for brand image and selling cars.
On the other hand you are saying they are not there for the love of F1.

Well you do realize that BMW Renault and Toyota are NOT in F1 as works teams anymore?
So what you say does not make any sense because if it did you would have seen BMW, Toyota, Renault as works teams in F1 today.

The BMW's in the '50 were privately entered, no team support. In the 60's they were in F2..
In the 80's they had some awesome turbo engines, but when that stopped, they pulled out.
Than around 2000 Williams used BMW engines, they wanted to buy out Williams, but he didn't want to. Than Sauber was the best victim, because entering a full new team is more expensive than taking over an other team..
And they pulled out because things didn't go like they wanted.
BMW has been affiliated with F1 one way or another for over 50 years. The fact that they did not participate with a team in the beginning has nothing to do with that they don´t love F1.

It´s a money issue, if it don´t make sense economically then there´s no point of doing it.
They pulled out because of the financial crisis. Not because things did not go as planned...

Just like Peugeot. Do you really think that after the 2008 season where they had a chance of taking at least one title and where Kubica was leading the championship mid-season that they would pull out because of one bad year?
That is a skewed image of reality.

BMW, Renault, Toyota are more motor sports fans then Minardi or HRT ever will be.
The problem is that they need to take care of their main business in order to enter F1.
If that business don´t go well then their F1 team will have to be cut because it´s costing money that could be used to help the company.

Renault entered in F1 to experiment with turbo engines and make their brand well known. No other reason behind that.
Newsflash: Renault has been around for over 100+ years. They do not need to make their brand more well known.
They entered F1 and built engines because the board allowed them to do so.

Excuse me but that might be the funniest piece of quote i´ve ever read in my life, sorry.

After that they still were a great engine supplier, but imo the sole reason they entered F1 as a team was because other brands were there as well, it was the podium to show things off.
Your opinion does not correlate with reality.

Toyota has as far as I know never been in F1 before 2002. They;ve been in rallying etc. But F1 was just there to stay in touch with the other brands. Renault and Jaguar were there and other brands had engines. Again, just to show off how good they are. Nothing (imo) because they loved F1.

Someone who really loves F1 will stay there, whether it goes bad or good. Just look at Frank Williams, or Giancarlo Minardi.

Yes it´s now crystal clear that you have no idea, not the slightest idea of how a company works and what they can and can not do in order to survive and evolve.

Thank you i´m out. This is about as hilarious as it gets for me.
It seems you are using your opinion against reality which never will work in the end.
 
So in your words, McLaren shouldn''ve been on the 03-grid, that car never passed the crash tests, not even with multiple tries. You can talk about fundamental problems with that car... Crash tests, sudden techincal and mechanical problems etc.

HRT might be out in 2014, but still. Four seasons in F1 (if they race in 2013) is more than the average of the new teams the last 20 years, and the F1-history is full of teams that came, tried, and left. In the last 20 years. Only Sauber and Toyota came as a brand new team, and stayed on for years. The other new teams haven't lasted very long. Pacific, Simtek, Forti-Corse and Super Aguri went bust pretty quick. Andrea Moda... is chapter for itself. Stewart had a shitload of money when they entered. And that worked out well as they were a Ford factory team. Which ended with a total Ford buyout.

That's actually it. In the last 20 years there hasn't been a single new team that has won a race, without being the works team. (Stewart was backed by Ford. Sauber didn't win until it was BMW).

This is F1. F1 is full of optimistic people trying to make a good team. And then get a good works deal. Or having teamed up with small engine-builders, trying to show off good pace, and getting someone to rebadge the engines.
Again, it's only in the last years, when the rules have been boringly tight, and with 10 teams. F1 has been that way. F1 have never been that way before. And I hope it'll never be that way again.
With more freedom, there are more differences between the cars, and easier to get a single good result on some tracks. More variety is good. F1 is slowly becoming a spec-series. That is boring.

I must admit, that even though it is a bit charming. Having to run trough the garages in Barcelona to borrow some bolts to use on the car is more Andrea Moda than Minardi.
 
But don´t you see you are contradicting yourself?

On one hand you say that they are only there for brand image and selling cars.
On the other hand you are saying they are not there for the love of F1.
And... brand image and selling cars isn't the same as love F1. Ferrari, McLaren, Williams. Those are teams that love F1.
BMW, Renault, Toyota, Honda etc. They are in F1 as long as they think the earn a total profit of it. Even though both Ferrari and McLaren are much more than a racing team. They would loose much with quitting F1. Williams will be gone without the F1 team. They are in F1 because of their love for F1, and because F1 is what they do.
BMW has been affiliated with F1 one way or another for over 50 years. The fact that they did not participate with a team in the beginning has nothing to do with that they don´t love F1.
Source on that please.

It´s a money issue, if it don´t make sense economically then there´s no point of doing it.
They pulled out because of the financial crisis. Not because things did not go as planned...
Therefor F1 is better of with more private teams, and private engine builders. If F1 should depend on car manufactures, F1 is dead.

Excuse me but that might be the funniest piece of quote i´ve ever read in my life, sorry.
Good people here can make you laugh and smile ! :)

Your opinion does not correlate with reality.
While you are the man when it comes to facts. And knowing things?

Thank you i´m out. This is about as hilarious as it gets for me.
:rolleyes:
 
But don´t you see you are contradicting yourself?

On one hand you say that they are only there for brand image and selling cars.
On the other hand you are saying they are not there for the love of F1.

Well you do realize that BMW Renault and Toyota are NOT in F1 as works teams anymore?
So what you say does not make any sense because if it did you would have seen BMW, Toyota, Renault as works teams in F1 today.
Indeed, they're not there as works teams anymore because things didn't go like they wanted and they were losing money. Just because they put too much money in it. If they don't have success or profit in car sales, they'll leave the sport. Simple as that.


BMW, Renault, Toyota are more motor sports fans then Minardi or HRT ever will be.
The problem is that they need to take care of their main business in order to enter F1.
If that business don´t go well then their F1 team will have to be cut because it´s costing money that could be used to help the company.
To my opinion privateers love F1 even because they don't just look at the cash flow. They do what they love, And they have to keep to the book, to stay there.
Works teams might love F1, but they're mainly there to make some good marketing for a brand. The cash flow book is never positive, because they need to invest a lot to try to be the best. They receive less funds from sponsors etc than they spend on the cars. That means the balance is negative and they receive money from the brand. If things don't go as expected they'll be out, because it costs too much.

Newsflash: Renault has been around for over 100+ years. They do not need to make their brand more well known.
They entered F1 and built engines because the board allowed them to do so.

Excuse me but that might be the funniest piece of quote i´ve ever read in my life, sorry.
I think you need some lesson in marketing then. Even after more than 100 years and being known by people every new marketing trick is important. F1 is huge marketing for a brand. The fact I made you smile makes me happy, as apparently not many things make you smile.;)
I think your text was pretty amusing as well, if marketing apparently isn't needed if a brand is well known (what you're saying), why are Apple and MS spending so much money on marketing? Why are Opel and Volkswagen spending so much money on commercials? Why is Ford a main sponsor in the Champions League? To gain attention! To be in the mind of people. People who buy a car will have something in their head.
When they saw Renault winning with innovative Turbo engines, Renault was in the mind of potential buyers. If Renault had not been in F1 they had to sell the brand in another way. Even if the brand is around more than 100 years..

Yes it´s now crystal clear that you have no idea, not the slightest idea of how a company works and what they can and can not do in order to survive and evolve.
I know enough about business and the perspectives. If I didn't I wouldn't be in the right business at the moment.
Car brands just join F1 because of marketing perspective and gaining more sales.. Just to show off what they can. If things don't go well, or the books don't allow an expense they'll be out. And since F1 is enormously expensive to be in the top, barely any works team can afford that
Privateers work with smaller budgets, and generally with a lot of sponsors to pay for a season. They have to work by the book else they don't exist next year. Generally they can survive, just because they spend less. A cheaper F1 is better, because more privateers can join, while when works teams join the costs rise like hell, because the works teams need to be the best, all else is fail in their opinion. If they don't make their success, or things get too expensive they're out. Works teams spend more money than they receive because they can get the money from other (core) businesses. If that business cannot afford to give more money, the works team will quit. That's why works teams will usually mean the death of a sport.

Thank you i´m out. This is about as hilarious as it gets for me.
It seems you are using your opinion against reality which never will work in the end.
I think I explained why works teams don't work in a sport like F1 and we need more privateers.
it's good that I was hilarious for you! ;) have a nice day laughing your ass off.
 
About 1 day too late? Well, we could take it as an improvement that it's going turn a wheel before Melbourne AT ALL.
If you look at THIS picture gallery of the final practice day you will notice that the HRT motorhome was there and actually their garage was also ready and waititng that day (I sow a picture some were too) but the team didn't show up WITH the car due to filming thing they had going on.
 
Say whatever you want. The car looks freakingly nice! The KH-7 logo on the inside of the rear wing, does crash with the livery. But the rest. RAWR!

hrtf112montmelo53201211.jpg
 

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