2012 Formula One Brazilian Grand Prix

[Kristian Nenov]

Jenson Button ends the year on a high, just what I wanted to see, .......

Yeah, he won the first, middle and last race!

I won't judge him if he wins everything else but these races next year!

Well, so much for your glee.

Great race, well deserved win for Button & fail for Alonso. He should've given the place back to Massa imho, would've been fair once it was clear he won't make it.

Yeah, he made Massa almost stop on the track to catch him up when on lap 15-20 Massa was 10th. Anyone else want to say that Massa can't drive now? Was better than Alonso in USA in the dry. Was better than Alonso in Brazil in the wet. It's sad that he'll be Alonso's toy next year too.

At least they should've skipped torturing Massa just for his home GP.

 

[Hampus Andersson]

Here´s a great shot showing just how lucky Vettel was. You are not supposed to continue running after a collision like that

Check out the tires and you can imagine the forces applied.
Neither Vettel or Senna had a puncture.

 

[Michael Llewellyn]

What a race to finish a great year in F1, I agree Vettel was very lucky there.

But Championships are not one or lost over a single race.

They are decided through a very intense Winter testing regime, great design and wonderful foresight and teamwork, coupled with the brilliant individuals that pilot these machines.

And of course some good luck.

There are always defining moments in Championships, in 2012 there where several that i could point out that really changed the balance of the 2012 season.

But in all honesty, the way Ferrari started the season, cost them the title imho.

Look at the way Red Bull finished the season, and there is where your Championship was won and lost.

Not over one race.

Cheers all.

Already looking forward to next year.

Mike.

 

[Metalfreaky]

Well he passed the HRT before the flashing light we see in the vid. Question is if there was already before a yellow sign

 

[Johnny Russian]

re: the yellow flags - a single yellow flag indicates danger ahead, such as debris from a crash. Drivers must slow down as they pass; no overtaking is permitted, unless it is unavoidable such as a driver retiring in the section, or a driver is lapped.

Two waved yellows at the same post indicates great danger ahead. Drivers must slow down and be prepared to stop; no overtaking is permitted unless a driver is lapped.

 

[Johnny Russian]

"According to Sky F1 pundit Martin Brundle, the Interlagos race stewards deemed the pass to have taken place under the red-yellow flags which warn drivers of slippery conditions.
Had the move been deemed to have occurred when yellow flags were being waved then Vettel's overtake would have been illegal and his title victory could, at least in theory, have been subject to a retrospective appeal.
"I've spoken to Gary Connolly, one of the race stewards, and he has absolutely confirmed that they were red-and-yellow boards," Martin reported."
http://www1.skysports.com/formula-1/news/12433/8282398/

 

[Metalfreaky]

Bu watch the video in your link. In turn 14 where Vettel overtook Kobayashi was clearly a yellow light signal.

 

[James Hemp]

Well he passed the HRT before the flashing light we see in the vid. Question is if there was already before a yellow sign

I don't get it. It seems to me he passes while the yellow lights were blinking. And once again there are no lights in his car confirming that yellow flag.

A special display in each driver’s cockpit - known as a GPS marshalling system - also lights up with the relevant flag colour, as the driver passes the affected section of track.

 

[James Hemp]

"According to Sky F1 pundit Martin Brundle, the Interlagos race stewards deemed the pass to have taken place under the red-yellow flags which warn drivers of slippery conditions.
Had the move been deemed to have occurred when yellow flags were being waved then Vettel's overtake would have been illegal and his title victory could, at least in theory, have been subject to a retrospective appeal.
"I've spoken to Gary Connolly, one of the race stewards, and he has absolutely confirmed that they were red-and-yellow boards," Martin reported."
http://www1.skysports.com/formula-1/news/12433/8282398/

You know what's interesting? Sky sports has 4 ex F1 drivers but none of them apparently knows what a steady yellow light means. McNish as far as I know is still driving in various competitions and he didn't mention anything about the difference between the lights, steady/ blinking. I mean if the other 3 are surely retired he still competes and should be aware of this.

 

[Bram Hengeveld]

Bu watch the video in your link. In turn 14 where Vettel overtook Kobayashi was clearly a yellow light signal.

But McNish explained also that Vettel had no chance to give back the position afterwards as Kamui turned directly into the pits.

If he would have stayed out this would definitely be an interesting case as his WDC would be in jeopardy as it was a clear overtake under yellow.

Don't think Vettel did it intentionally though for what thats worth.

 

[Markus Neumann]

But McNish explained also that Vettel had no chance to give back the position afterwards as Kamui turned directly into the pits.

At Melbourne 2011, Button did an illegal overtake on Massa, Ferrari immediately pitted Massa, so Button had no chance of giving the position back and still got a penalty.

 

[Johnny Russian]

Bu watch the video in your link. In turn 14 where Vettel overtook Kobayashi was clearly a yellow light signal.

yup i've watched the video. the thing is, one could always argue that Vettel started the pass clearly in a green zone, but only completed it in the yellow zone. when they hit the yellow zone, his car is about 90% alongside Kobayashi's it looks to me, so it's not like he completely overtook Kobayashi from behind in the yellow zone. it could be argued that at the point they hit the yellow zone he should've pulled out of the move though.

but as they point out in the vid and other people here have, Kobayashi dived straight into the pits so Vettel would've passed him anywhere.

i guess the stewards maybe took all this account, decided it was a 50/50 decision as to whether or was a penalty or not, and decided to give Vettel the benefit of the doubt considering he would've passed Kobayashi anyway. the fact that there are so many people having opinions about this one way or the other shows I think that it is a bit of a grey area.

 

[Johnny Russian]

also, the most telling thing here is that Ferrari haven't launched a protest. if they thought there was even a 1% chance of launching a successful protest the FIA doors would be lying in tatters right now from Ferrari beating them down.

the overtake on the HRT, was that for position or was he lapping the HRT? I can't remember.

 

[Jebus]

also, the most telling thing here is that Ferrari haven't launched a protest. if they thought there was even a 1% chance of launching a successful protest the FIA doors would be lying in tatters right now from Ferrari beating them down.

Imo this is the biggest proof that there was nothing fishy. Ferrari whines about pretty much everything, I'm a Ferrari fan too so hold your horses, even if there's nothing to whine about. Vettel is 2012 champion, get over it.

 

[Johnny Russian]

At Melbourne 2011, Button did an illegal overtake on Massa, Ferrari immediately pitted Massa, so Button had no chance of giving the position back and still got a penalty.

you posted this as i was typing out my posts

i didn't remember that actually, but inconsistent decisions by the stewards are a dime a dozen, there have been so many this season alone, so I'm not surprised if they made another inconsistent decision here.

by the way, I'm not a Vettel supporter so I'm completely neutral in the matter, but after reading all the arguments for and against Vettel getting a penalty it does seem like a 50/50 decision to me, so I really think the stewards gave Vettel the benefit of the doubt here. probably a case of maybe being a bit lenient because they didn't want a penalty to decide the fate of the championship. the same way some referees are a bit more lenient in football/soccer in cup finals because they don't want sending offs to decide the result, perhaps.

 

[Hampus Andersson]

At Melbourne 2011, Button did an illegal overtake on Massa, Ferrari immediately pitted Massa, so Button had no chance of giving the position back and still got a penalty.

Are you sure this wasn´t in 2012 and no pit?

Button tried to pass Massa, Massa closed the door, Button took escape route, Alonso chases them down and overtakes Massa and because Button had to let Massa past Alonso automatically gained one there.
(or 2 i should say)

 

[Markus Neumann]

Are you sure this wasn´t in 2012 and no pit?

Button tried to pass Massa, Massa closed the door, Button took escape route, Alonso chases them down and overtakes Massa and because Button had to let Massa past Alonso automatically gained one there.
(or 2 i should say)

Then how did Button win the race?
It was definitely 2011. You are right about the Alonso part though. He caught up with them and got past Massa, so if Button had wanted to give the place back, he would have had to let Alonso past too. He didn't though, and then Ferrari pitted Massa.

 

[Hampus Andersson]

Ehhh yea you are right, 2011. Button destroyed everyone in Australia 2012, should have remembered that one.

 

[Tony Holder]

Button the Destroyer..haha...like that.

 

[Deo Adeva]

Here´s a great shot showing just how lucky Vettel was. You are not supposed to continue running after a collision like that

Check out the tires and you can imagine the forces applied.
Neither Vettel or Senna had a puncture.

Tires are also the one factor to have a good and finest drive. Aside from having a good f1 racing car, it wouldn’t be completely functional if the tyres aren’t working well. So for a racing car to work at its finest, the tyres play a great part of it. But how can you find good and high quality F1 tires for your racing car?