1.3 AI issues

[hexagramme]

From the video description:

Assetto Corsa version 1.3 with Dreampack #1 and #2, fresh install, no 3rd party mods installed.

Opponent strength = 100%
Track surface = optimum

This is what I was able to observe/capture during 1 hour of gameplay with a handful of different car/track combinations.

00:03 – AI piling up before Eau Rouge for no apparent reason, AI not registering speed differences, AI not taking avoiding action, AI falling through the world.
00:22 – A lot of AI cars running on the grass instead of on the track, AI not registering walls/barriers and hitting them, AI not taking avoiding action to avoid hitting other slower cars, AI not able to brake after the car has broken down, AI falling through the world.
00:48 – AI rear ending other car, continues to race with the other car on top of it, the lifted AI is sent back to the pits and immediately races straight into the pit wall.
00:57 – Yellow AI car rear ends blue AI car, with no concern at all for the difference in speed. Yellow car races on as if nothing happened. Another AI behind doesn’t register the blue car is stationary and slams into it. The blue car’s physics go haywire, then it’s hit by another AI, and it almost falls through the world too.
01:30 – AI cars running off the track en masse, total disregard of the appropriate speed for that particular corner.
01:42 – Same thing, total disregard of appropriate speed.
01:49 – Same thing, only much worse, AI cars crashing even before the actual corner.
01:56 – AI car running off the track for no reason at all, then rejoins unsafely and gets hit by two AI cars. Again, they don’t even register the difference in speed and take close to no avoiding action.
02:06 – The typical pile-up before Eau Rouge. The AI is still unable to drive around stationary cars. It just sits and waits for the stationary cars to be moved off the track.
02:30 – Car clipping through the track surface and then sliding on its side in an unrealistic manner.
02:40 – AI car stopping on track for no reason at all. Then gets hit by another car which again takes no avoiding action or heed the yellow flags.
02:50 – Another nonsensical AI contact before Eau Rouge.
02:57 – This time the RUF AI stops on track for no reason at all. Other AI lacks logic to drive around the stationary car properly. Another big crash ensues.
03:08 – An AI car suddenly locks all four wheels and momentarily loses drive, goes off into the gravel, and rejoins the track in an unsafe manner. Another AI hits the first car, then another, and then another. Many AI cars drive off the track, plowing through the gravel.
03:39 – CPU 99% occupancy bug. Multiple AI cars swerving dangerously, which sends me into a spin and another AI then rams me into the barriers.
03:50 – Restart the race, AI still swerving and sends me into the barrier once more.
03:59 – AI cars running into each other, rejoining unsafely, overtaking on the grass and bumping into each other on straights.
04:28 – Me hanging back, observing some quite absurd AI behavior.
04:53 – AI smashing into the barrier for no reason, suspension physics going haywire, big crash.
05:08 – Another clip of the absurd AI behavior on Nordschleife
05:17 – Me hanging back, observing some more bizarre AI behavior. This time an AI keeps rear ending and pushing another AI car along the track, until one of them finally goes off into the barrier. The yellow AI car starts racing on the grass instead of on the track. After that, another AI plows into the yellow car.
06:16 – Multiple AI going off the track and ramming into each other.
06:24 – More absurd AI behavior, plowing into each other.
06:30 – AI running off the track and rejoining unsafely.
06:40 – More absurd AI ramming into each other.
06:46 – AI stopping on track before Eau Rouge, again.
07:03 – AI swerving, ramming each other and me, stopping on track, ramming each other some more, and lack the logic to drive around stopped cars on track.
07:32 – Most of the AI cars go off in the corner, some DNF’ing.
07:40 – AI cars slide all over the track, hitting the barriers and each other, causing a traffic jam. Yet again, the AI can’t figure out how to drive around stopped cars.
07:54 – Same story as above, insane driving causing DNF’s and traffic jams due to lack of logic.
08:07 – Another instance of the same problem, third time in one race.
08:17 – AI losing control under braking, then swerving wildly to defend, defending on the grass, ramming.
08:32 – AI making a mess ending up on top of each other.
08:44 – AI plowing into another AI, ramming it off the road.
08:51 – AI completely miscalculating the available grip, ramming the outside barrier, stopping on track.

 

[Kenny Paton]

Whoa, it's bad enough that the racing game world is riven with my sim's better than your sim wars, and yours isn't sim enough it's arcade or worse simcade, without further divisions between MP and SP players. I was firmly under the impression that we did this for fun so whichever you choose to do or whichever game you play just enjoy it.

 

[poet]

I have no problem in accepting that MP is superior in many ways to SP with regards to simracing.

There's many reasons MP has no real appeal to me but one of them has to be the awful "ettiquette" of online racing:
"Allow player to pass you if you accidentally fart in his slipstream causing him 0.01s delay".

BTCC is my racing world. Get a bit of a bash and drive away from it? Then all fair.

Some of these online racers come across as a bit too "precious".
Much rather mix it up with the AI who don't cry when we swap healthy amounts of paint.

 

[poet]

And you know what else?

I'm actually going to back Hex in this thread.
It's very obvious from the large amount of time he's spent on this that he actually must really be a fan of Assetto Corsa, and he is right about the AI needing more work (as well as other areas of the game).
Go Hex and welcome to the AC family.

 

[Brandon Wright]

Racing against AI which you know where they're weak, where they're strong. You know how to beat them, and if you can't you simply turn down the difficulty. This is why I am very much in support of Online racing, there's no difficulty setting. If you win, it's because you were legitimately the best driver on the grid. If you lose then you aren't. You can't hide behind the cover of an AI difficulty slider, as it's an accurate depiction of your racing skill. And there is absolutely no better feeling in simracing than having a great wheel to wheel battle with a fellow human being.

Completely true, winning my first online race against real people, some of whom were very fast and skilled, is a high point in my life that I won't soon forget. But you've also illustrated why some people don't care for online racing......it can be completely demoralizing to see how slow you are compared to others. For some people this is motivation to get better, for some it is reason to never try it again. Both opinions are equally valid.

I just think it goes against what simracing is all about: simulating real racing.

That's what it's about for you. And for many others (myself included). But that doesn't mean it's the only way to enjoy it. For me, pizza is all about loading as much meat toppings on as possible, screw the veggies and give me more pepperoni! But that doesn't mean I don't enjoy a good plain cheese pizza every now and then, or that vegetarians shouldn't get to enjoy pizza because they don't like meat. There's room for all options!

I used to be an AI racer. Then I tried MP, and have never looked back since. The only regret I have is that I didn't discover it sooner.

Opposite for me, but not by choice. I was a Gran Turismo racer for 5 years, and for 4+ of them I only raced online. I formed my own clubs and whenever I want to do some practicing/driving/racing I'd open a room and at least a few people would join in for some hooniganism, then twice a week we'd all get together for some epic full-on racing, and it was marvelous. Nothing compares to it. Then I bought a PC and my online racing has dropped to nearly zero due to several factors. First, I can rarely find a club race that suits my time schedule. Second, it seems a lot of the races are 45-60 minutes or longer and I don't really care for races that long (nor does my aging, out of shape body). Third, it's more difficult to just "open a room" for me and my buddies to jump in at random times for random racing fun. Fourth, the community for PC sim racing is smaller and fractured between various sims.

I really miss my online racing fun with my online friends, but due to various circumstances it's just not in the cards for me very much right now so I try to get by with racing the AI in R3E or GSCE and I manage to still have fun doing it. It's not as much fun as racing my friends, and it's certainly not my first choice for sim-racing fun, but it's way better than no sim-racing fun at all.

Different horses for different courses.

 

[ouvert]

Exactly, not all of us have the luxury to join league .. how many of you would go for Q1 between 7:30 - 8:00, Q2 between 11-12h, and race between 15:30-16:30 with me? .. cause that is when I`m available tomorrow not sure about any other day .. and public racing I`ve experienced so far in AC is much worst than good AI yep I had some good races in GTR Evo .. but things like you start with full grid .. few of them wont survive first corner - disconnect, some will crush during the race - disconnect, last few, too far behind - diconect, somebodys wife came home - disconnect .. wow I finnished 1st .. and the other guy that played till the checkered flag was second/last ...

 

[Brandon Wright]

We're all entitled to our own opinions of course, doesn't bother me the least if someone loves MP and hates SP or vice versa. Enjoy your sim however you want! Just don't put down or ridicule someone who plays differently than you or has a different opinion, this doesn't do the community any favors. We're all here because we love sim racing, whether it be against other people or against the computer, and that's all that should matter.

 

[Tobbe Bergman]

Sure it's nice to race with real people who are skilled but it only happens about 1 times out of 500 so it's nice to be able to race against good AI drivers to get the daily sim racing fix.

I've never understood why the MP community look down on people who prefer driving against AI drivers.

The MP community works a lot like a little terrier, they think they are big and important but in fact they are just a tiny tiny part of Sim racing.

Hate to say it but !
The MP community belong to a very small minority !

Read and weep !
Marco Massarutto ( Kunos Licensing Project Manager ) quote:

"Many people think that the multiplayer and online experience is dramatically important to every racing game. Still if you count the number of users that play online at any time of the day/week with all the available simulators on the market, and then you also count the sales numbers of all the simulators available, you will notice that the online active users are a tiny fraction of the whole sales, even on purely online dedicated sims. So we’re troubled… where are all these people? Why we can’t see more online active users, than 15-20% of the whole sales of all sims even by the most pessimistic sales projections? Obviously because only a small part of the customers have the time and energy to race online regularly."

source
http://www.simnewsdaily.com/assetto-corsa-exclusive-developer-statement-interview/


Stefano Casillo on Assetto Corsa AI vs Multiplayer
@ 1:18:00

 

[Tomas Torasen]

What about people who don't have good enough internet connections to race online? Or people who have capped data amounts? Or younger people who's parents don't allow them to play online? Or people who aren't confident enough in their skills to race against others and don't want to be labeled a wrecker/punter/crasher/noob? Or people who get very limited time to play due to family/work/life obligations and just want to hop on for a quick 30 minute race and then go back to tending to life's demands? Should those people not be allowed to enjoy this hobby, just because various circumstances don't allow them to race online with real people?

Of course racing real people and chatting with your mates is more enjoyable, but it's not an option for everybody and it seems silly to only allow those people to do boring hot lapping just because nobody can produce 100% accurate-to-life AI. Who cares what it says about their ability? Shouldn't they still have the ability to have fun driving/racing virtual cars? The fact that they use the "sim" in a different way than you do should have no bearing on your ability to enjoy the sim the way you want to enjoy it. And conversely, your dislike of the AI should have no bearing on SP racers ability to enjoy the sim the way they want to.

I never said they should not be allowed to enjoy it the way they want. In a perfect world everyone would be happy, which off course is unattainable. You have limited resources when youre spending time on developing a sim, more time in one part means less time in another, basically. As I said you are allowed your personal preference off course and I think I was clear I was expressing mine.

 

[Brandon Wright]

I never said they should not be allowed to enjoy it the way they want. In a perfect world everyone would be happy, which off course is unattainable. You have limited resources when youre spending time on developing a sim, more time in one part means less time in another, basically. As I said you are allowed your personal preference off course and I think I was clear I was expressing mine.

Sorry, I must have misunderstood. With words like

And it belongs in arcade titles and career modes in my head. I dont understand buying AC to race against AI, it says nothing about your ability anyway. Simulation of real racing or real physics, AI is simulation of other people, thats not sim racing.

it comes across like AI should not be included at all just because some people prefer to only race real people.

I think some of us have given plenty of examples of why someone would buy AC and race against the AI. In a perfect world we'd all have unlimited, rock solid internet and there would always be a full grid of real people online and ready to race when our schedule permits. Unfortunately, that's not the case and because of this AI is a necessary evil. My personal preference is to race real people online, but the reality is that more times than not I'm stuck racing AI due to scheduling issues. I wish that weren't the case, and I don't expect AI to be perfect or as good as real people, but I'd at least like it to be enjoyable for those times I'm forced to use it. Some sims achieve "good enough" AI, some don't.

Edit: Sorry, not trying to be a dick or anything. I should stop posting when I'm having a sh***y day at work, my words sometimes come out wrong.

 

[Chris]

Sure it's nice to race with real people who are skilled but it only happens about 1 times out of 500

Well that only happens if you join public servers which even I agree 99% of the time are far worse than racing AI. I don't bother with public racing personally as yeah it's pretty bloody awful.

Only in organized racing communities in places like this and elsewhere are you able to race against skilled drivers 100% of the time.

 

[Tobbe Bergman]

Well that only happens if you join public servers which even I agree 99% of the time are far worse than racing AI. I don't bother with public racing personally as yeah it's pretty bloody awful.

Only in organized racing communities in places like this and elsewhere are you able to race against skilled drivers every time.

When it comes to league racing I found out that many drivers are overly sensitive about normal racing incidents and acting like little girls most of the time.

That's why I prefer good AI drivers so I can drive what and where and when I want.

 

[Cristian Haba]

He wasn't talking about league racing, RD Club racing is anything but that. It gathers skill levels of all kind. We meet, practice, improve, share setup tips, others watch to get an idea of how to tackle a track properly. You race in varying conditions of grip, etc etc.

 

[Ryan Ogurek]

Personally, I see it this way - if kunos were to hire a person with the sole job of working on the AI, I'd say great.

Until then, I'd rather see thier resources used elsewhere. I think that is the real motive behind this argument, rather than some form of elitism.

Of course there is and always will be different mindsets about sim racing, the fact is, while technology is getting closer and closer to real life physics, graphics, ect. there is still a limit to the capability of modern technology. As physics simulations become more complex and true to life, the complexity of the AI increases ten fold. At some point you have to determine where to make sacrifices. Kunos have stated time and time again they will not sacrifice physics or the sensation of driving - which is why so many of us are so passionate about this specific sim - so that sacrifice will be elsewhere, largely the AI.

For me, they biggest complaint I have is not so much to the fact that the AI can behave unrealistically or be too slow, its the fact that I cant run more than ten AI cars without it bogging down my performance.

 

[Tobbe Bergman]

He wasn't talking about league racing, RD Club racing is anything but that. It gathers skill levels of all kind. We meet, practice, improve, share setup tips, others watch to get an idea of how to tackle a track properly. You race in varying conditions of grip, etc etc.

I've tried both and could not notice any difference

 

[Chris]

So hang on, let me get this straight.

I say that MP is better than SP (because it is), and I get labeled as a ridiculing Multiplayer elitist.
But then it's okay for you to say that all MP racers act like little girls? Riiight, I see how this works now.

Sounds to me like you just want to be able to crash into people with no repercussions, yet when the AI crash into you the game is broken?

 

[Msportdan]

i dot think the AI is as bad as this thread makes out. if anything their quite challenging and will get you in and out of corners. yes the starts a bit messy, but rather that then the ai just roll over for you. I would place the Ai quite high on the sim list of AI. even other sims the AI smach and hit you and are generally blind.

 

[Jebus]

So hang on, let me get this straight.

I say that MP is better than SP (because it is), and I get labeled as a ridiculing Multiplayer elitist.
But then it's okay for you to say that all MP racers act like little girls? Riiight, I see how this works now.

Sounds to me like you just want to be able to crash into people with no repercussions, yet when the AI crash into you the game is broken?

View attachment 107854

Yeah you showed us the way. Wanna cookie now?

 

[Chris]

Yeah you showed us the way. Wanna cookie now?

Actually I would love one right about now. Got any milk to go with it Jebus?

 

[Lily Starfox]

I have always despised people who try to "justify" a problem by saying people don't care.
"Aw who cares about singleplayer? Most people use multiplayer anyway"... Yeah right.
It's just a lazy way to say "ugh I can't be bothered to fix that problem".
Thanks god Kunos developers are NOT like that at all.
But some people on this forum seem ok about having a broken game. Weird.
Somebody used the word "elitist".. Well sheesh, the people who are ok with that A.I. are NOT elitists.
Daytona USA (1993, Arcade) had BETTER A.I.. lol
Whether you prefer single player or multiplayer, A.I. has to be improved, period.
And people at Kunos think the same way.
When you're a pro, you don't leave a problem ruining the whole experience.
You have to be a perfectionist.

 

[Tobbe Bergman]

So hang on, let me get this straight.

I say that MP is better than SP (because it is), and I get labeled as a ridiculing Multiplayer elitist.
But then it's okay for you to say that all MP racers act like little girls? Riiight, I see how this works now.

Sounds to me like you just want to be able to crash into people with no repercussions, yet when the AI crash into you the game is broken?

View attachment 107854

Yeah right MP is better than SP because you say so !

You are the true stereotype MP fanboy that has zero ability to understand other people's views.

Wanna cookie now ?