1.3 AI issues

[hexagramme]

From the video description:

Assetto Corsa version 1.3 with Dreampack #1 and #2, fresh install, no 3rd party mods installed.

Opponent strength = 100%
Track surface = optimum

This is what I was able to observe/capture during 1 hour of gameplay with a handful of different car/track combinations.

00:03 – AI piling up before Eau Rouge for no apparent reason, AI not registering speed differences, AI not taking avoiding action, AI falling through the world.
00:22 – A lot of AI cars running on the grass instead of on the track, AI not registering walls/barriers and hitting them, AI not taking avoiding action to avoid hitting other slower cars, AI not able to brake after the car has broken down, AI falling through the world.
00:48 – AI rear ending other car, continues to race with the other car on top of it, the lifted AI is sent back to the pits and immediately races straight into the pit wall.
00:57 – Yellow AI car rear ends blue AI car, with no concern at all for the difference in speed. Yellow car races on as if nothing happened. Another AI behind doesn’t register the blue car is stationary and slams into it. The blue car’s physics go haywire, then it’s hit by another AI, and it almost falls through the world too.
01:30 – AI cars running off the track en masse, total disregard of the appropriate speed for that particular corner.
01:42 – Same thing, total disregard of appropriate speed.
01:49 – Same thing, only much worse, AI cars crashing even before the actual corner.
01:56 – AI car running off the track for no reason at all, then rejoins unsafely and gets hit by two AI cars. Again, they don’t even register the difference in speed and take close to no avoiding action.
02:06 – The typical pile-up before Eau Rouge. The AI is still unable to drive around stationary cars. It just sits and waits for the stationary cars to be moved off the track.
02:30 – Car clipping through the track surface and then sliding on its side in an unrealistic manner.
02:40 – AI car stopping on track for no reason at all. Then gets hit by another car which again takes no avoiding action or heed the yellow flags.
02:50 – Another nonsensical AI contact before Eau Rouge.
02:57 – This time the RUF AI stops on track for no reason at all. Other AI lacks logic to drive around the stationary car properly. Another big crash ensues.
03:08 – An AI car suddenly locks all four wheels and momentarily loses drive, goes off into the gravel, and rejoins the track in an unsafe manner. Another AI hits the first car, then another, and then another. Many AI cars drive off the track, plowing through the gravel.
03:39 – CPU 99% occupancy bug. Multiple AI cars swerving dangerously, which sends me into a spin and another AI then rams me into the barriers.
03:50 – Restart the race, AI still swerving and sends me into the barrier once more.
03:59 – AI cars running into each other, rejoining unsafely, overtaking on the grass and bumping into each other on straights.
04:28 – Me hanging back, observing some quite absurd AI behavior.
04:53 – AI smashing into the barrier for no reason, suspension physics going haywire, big crash.
05:08 – Another clip of the absurd AI behavior on Nordschleife
05:17 – Me hanging back, observing some more bizarre AI behavior. This time an AI keeps rear ending and pushing another AI car along the track, until one of them finally goes off into the barrier. The yellow AI car starts racing on the grass instead of on the track. After that, another AI plows into the yellow car.
06:16 – Multiple AI going off the track and ramming into each other.
06:24 – More absurd AI behavior, plowing into each other.
06:30 – AI running off the track and rejoining unsafely.
06:40 – More absurd AI ramming into each other.
06:46 – AI stopping on track before Eau Rouge, again.
07:03 – AI swerving, ramming each other and me, stopping on track, ramming each other some more, and lack the logic to drive around stopped cars on track.
07:32 – Most of the AI cars go off in the corner, some DNF’ing.
07:40 – AI cars slide all over the track, hitting the barriers and each other, causing a traffic jam. Yet again, the AI can’t figure out how to drive around stopped cars.
07:54 – Same story as above, insane driving causing DNF’s and traffic jams due to lack of logic.
08:07 – Another instance of the same problem, third time in one race.
08:17 – AI losing control under braking, then swerving wildly to defend, defending on the grass, ramming.
08:32 – AI making a mess ending up on top of each other.
08:44 – AI plowing into another AI, ramming it off the road.
08:51 – AI completely miscalculating the available grip, ramming the outside barrier, stopping on track.

 

[Mike85]

Wow hexagramme is back! I was missing you! Where is Associat0r? Our best and lovely friend!!!
<mod edit: Do not personally attack people just because you disagrees with them>

 

[hexagramme]

maybe what you are showing in video could have something with AI being updated but most openwhellers are still on V4 tyres ...

Is the tire model a valid reason for AI racing on the grass, in the gravel and on top of each other, instead of on the track?

 

[Mike85]

Is the tire model a valid reason for AI racing on the grass, in the gravel and on top of each other, instead of on the track?

hexa, you conviced me! I've finally uninstalled this disaster of Assetto Corsa! Can't believe i've already wasted so many hours of my life for this full of bugs garbage :-( Now i will buy rFactor 2 even twice! Just to compensate my life errors..

 

[Chris Kennedy]

yep im sold, rfactor 2 subscription purchased.

what a sad existence

 

[ouvert]

Is the tire model a valid reason for AI racing on the grass, in the gravel and on top of each other, instead of on the track?

nah just if AI is optimized for new tyre model it might affect AIs behavior on old tyre model ... as V4 and old ABS was harder to drive, with V5/new ABS you can brake later an that might causes issues.

AI thinks i`m fine I can brake later but whoops I`m on old tyres and my ABS is crap here I go of the track, into another car ... just saying .. racing with GT3 cars I had no issues with AI other than they are not able to overtake in corners, I even run half of the first lap on zandvoort 2 - 3 cars wide surrounded by 17 AI cars without anybody touching other car ... AI is nowere perfect but it can run cleanly .. now it needs to learn how to race ...

 

[Travis]

yep im sold, rfactor 2 subscription purchased.
what a sad existence

What is sad is rF2 is a quality sim and doesn't need to be associated with comments made by those outside of ISI. Tim Weatley has praised Kunos within the ISI forums stating it is very difficult to create a sim from scratch. Tim has also asked rF2 forum members to tone down their extreme opinions about other sims.

Sadly those comments are ignored elsewhere on the internet.

 

[Chris]

I'm kind of amazed that people get this uppity about AI. Like, who really cares?
You're racing against a bunch of 101101010010101010101110101's.

You can beat a computer? Good job. Want a cookie?
Race online here and get stomped instead by people who can actually drive.

Also, @Mike85 do not post personal attacks against others just because you disagree with them. It's a discussion forum, people are naturally going to have different opinions.

 

[Jebus]

I'm kind of amazed that people get this uppity about AI. Like, who really cares?
You're racing against a bunch of 101101010010101010101110101's.

You can beat a computer? Good job. Want a cookie?
Race online here and get stomped instead by people who can actually drive.

Also, @Mike85 do not post personal attacks against others just because you disagree with them. It's a discussion forum, people are naturally going to have different opinions.

Way to show mp elitism at it's best. One of the reasons why I find RD far less enjoyable than it used to be. Not to mention how you give a lecture about personal attacks while in the same post you ridicule people who likes to use the game the way they like. Well done!

 

[Chris]

Well, sorry if my opinion came across as ridicule, and I'm not saying you cannot use the game how you like, I just thought I'd give my take on this whole AI thing. Heck, as far as I'm concerned Kunos could drop SP completely and the game would be better for it. Not that my opinion has anymore worth to it than yours or anyone else's, it's just that this is a discussion board so that's my opinion on the matter.

Heaven forbid that most members of RD, a site that was founded around the very premise of organised multiplayer racing, feel that multiplayer racing is better than AI racing.

 

[Dave R]

I'm kind of amazed that people get this uppity about AI. Like, who really cares?
You're racing against a bunch of 101101010010101010101110101's.

You can beat a computer? Good job. Want a cookie?
Race online here and get stomped instead by people who can actually drive.

Also, @Mike85 do not post personal attacks against others just because you disagree with them. It's a discussion forum, people are naturally going to have different opinions.

This is the second or third time I've seen a staff member put down people who don't race online. A lot of us don't race online due to time factors/etc. I went premium to support the site not to race online, and I'm sure a lot of folks are in the same position.

 

[Chris]

The fact that I'm staff has nothing to do with it. This is just my personal opinion on the whole AI matter. My views do not speak for the whole of RD nor for other staff members, they're just my personal views. I personally don't really care if the Kunos AI is as broken as the Titanic because AI racing, to me, is rather pointless and serves literally zero purpose in the game for me.

The same way you may feel that racing against real people online is pointless. That's completely fine as it's your opinion. If you prefer racing against AI because you don't have the to time to race online, or whatever other reason you may have, then that's completely understandable.

So I give my view on the matter and I get branded as a "MP elitist". Does this mean that anyone who prefers Single player is a "SP Elitist"?

 

[William Wester]

Yeah, but sometimes it's better to keep opinions to ones self. If an opinion serves no purpose or benefit then what good is it.

 

[Brandon Wright]

So I give my view on the matter and I get branded as a "MP elitist". Does this mean that anyone who prefers Single player is a "SP Elitist"?

It's not the fact that you gave your opinion, it's how you gave your opinion, implying that people who race 1's & 0's are uppity and deserve a cookie for beating a computer. That qualifies as elitism and ridicule in my opinion.

Of course racing real people who can stomp me is better. But guess what? I can rarely find any club/league racing that fits my time schedule, so on those days/times I want to have a race but there isn't a club/league race scheduled, it's nice to have decent AI so I can still feel like I'm racing and get some practice driving in traffic or dirty air. I would prefer that there was always a MP race scheduled every time I want to race, but unfortunately that's not the case, and I'm not a big fan of hot lapping so the AI is there to fill in the gap. I can totally enjoy myself racing AI in R3E or GSCE, AC is still lagging behind in this department but at least it's making progress and may soon be good enough to have a fun race with when there isn't MP available. I don't feel I should be ridiculed and looked down on because my time schedule doesn't allow me much time for MP racing.

Not that I'm really bothered by it, just thought I'd shine some light on why some of us need AI on occasion and how comments can come across wrong due to how they're presented.

 

[Tomas Torasen]

I personally dont understand the obsession some express (not thinking of anyone specifically here in this thread now) about AI.

I remember having fun with need for speed titles and hand controller way back with pals, drinking some beer and just having fun racing offline as it only were back then.
But in sim racing titles I really dont see the point of AI at all. Personally. You are allowed to have another opinion off course but in sim racing for me the whole point is online experience. Or perhaps offline hotlapping and setup building, although preferably done online on private server with a few team mates chatting away. AI for me is unattainable to get close enough that it feels human all the time, we just arent there yet. And it belongs in arcade titles and career modes in my head. I dont understand buying AC to race against AI, it says nothing about your ability anyway. Simulation of real racing or real physics, AI is simulation of other people, thats not sim racing. Sim racing is simulation of real racing against other people, which we do have in online mode.

Also remember all the time you put kunos to work on AI he does not work on improving sounds, physics, FFB, online interface and stuff that could get better.

 

[Brandon Wright]

I personally dont understand the obsession some express (not thinking of anyone specifically here in this thread now) about AI.

I remember having fun with need for speed titles and hand controller way back with pals, drinking some beer and just having fun racing offline as it only were back then.
But in sim racing titles I really dont see the point of AI at all. Personally. You are allowed to have another opinion off course but in sim racing for me the whole point is online experience. Or perhaps offline hotlapping and setup building, although preferably done online on private server with a few team mates chatting away. AI for me is unattainable to get close enough that it feels human all the time, we just arent there yet. And it belongs in arcade titles and career modes in my head. I dont understand buying AC to race against AI, it says nothing about your ability anyway. Simulation of real racing or real physics, AI is simulation of other people, thats not sim racing. Sim racing is simulation of real racing against other people, which we do have in online mode.

Also remember all the time you put kunos to work on AI he does not work on improving sounds, physics, FFB, online interface and stuff that could get better.

What about people who don't have good enough internet connections to race online? Or people who have capped data amounts? Or younger people who's parents don't allow them to play online? Or people who aren't confident enough in their skills to race against others and don't want to be labeled a wrecker/punter/crasher/noob? Or people who get very limited time to play due to family/work/life obligations and just want to hop on for a quick 30 minute race and then go back to tending to life's demands? Should those people not be allowed to enjoy this hobby, just because various circumstances don't allow them to race online with real people?

Of course racing real people and chatting with your mates is more enjoyable, but it's not an option for everybody and it seems silly to only allow those people to do boring hot lapping just because nobody can produce 100% accurate-to-life AI. Who cares what it says about their ability? Shouldn't they still have the ability to have fun driving/racing virtual cars? The fact that they use the "sim" in a different way than you do should have no bearing on your ability to enjoy the sim the way you want to enjoy it. And conversely, your dislike of the AI should have no bearing on SP racers ability to enjoy the sim the way they want to.

 

[poet]

Heck, as far as I'm concerned Kunos could drop SP completely and the game would be better for it.

.

As a lot of those SP-only players helped pay for the development, improvement and expansion of the title, then that comment is a little short-sighted. No?

We're all in it together, pointless division is pointless.

 

[F_B]

I’d suggest those people, who look for a good AI should stick with rfactor 2 or GSCE. Personally I don’t think that Kunos will improve AI that much, I’d suggest it has no high priority on their agenda. If you ask me I’m all for improving MP features instead of improving AI. Some years ago I also wanted good AI in racing games, but since I joined Iracing nearly two years I don’t even bother about AI racing because racing against human opponents is so much more fun and unpredictable (sometimes for the worse with crashkids etc). However, I know that some of you don’t have the time to race online and just look for a quick and nice race against AI…

 

[Brandon Wright]

As a lot of those SP-only players helped pay for the development, improvement and expansion of the title, then that comment is a little short-sighted. No?

We're all in it together, pointless division is pointless.

And considering Kunos claim that only 20% of players ever go online, by dropping SP completely they would be eliminating 80% of their income stream. Doesn't seem like a smart thing to do.

I’d suggest those people, who look for a good AI should stick with rfactor 2 or GSCE. Personally I don’t think that Kunos will improve AI that much, I’d suggest it has no high priority on their agenda.

Agreed. I think it's obvious by Kunos open letter that they never really intended for AC to be anything more than an incredibly accurate hot lapping simulator, and that improving SP and MP seems a bit of an inconvenience to them.

 

[ouvert]

As a lot of those SP-only players helped pay for the development, improvement and expansion of the title, then that comment is a little short-sighted. No?

We're all in it together, pointless division is pointless.

more SP players than MP players helped with developemend founding ..

I’d suggest those people, who look for a good AI should stick with rfactor 2 or GSCE. Personally I don’t think that Kunos will improve AI that much, I’d suggest it has no high priority on their agenda. If you ask me I’m all for improving MP features instead of improving AI. Some years ago I also wanted good AI in racing games, but since I joined Iracing nearly two years I don’t even bother about AI racing because racing against human opponents is so much more fun and unpredictable (sometimes for the worse with crashkids etc). However, I know that some of you don’t have the time to race online and just look for a quick and nice race against AI…

well that is not that easy to decide ....
as you said there are games doing AI much better .. therefore drop SP and focus on MP

There are sims doing MP much better ..OK, lets drop MP and focus on hotlapping as we all could agree that driving is what is the solid thing in AC

 

[Chris]

Don't get me wrong. I fully understand and accept the fact that the Singleplayer usage is higher than the Multiplayer, as is the case with almost every game in existence. I just think it goes against what simracing is all about: simulating real racing.

Racing against AI which you know where they're weak, where they're strong. You know how to beat them, and if you can't you simply turn down the difficulty. This is why I am very much in support of Online racing, there's no difficulty setting. If you win, it's because you were legitimately the best driver on the grid. If you lose then you aren't. You can't hide behind the cover of an AI difficulty slider, as it's an accurate depiction of your racing skill. And there is absolutely no better feeling in simracing than having a great wheel to wheel battle with a fellow human being.

I used to be an AI racer. Then I tried MP, and have never looked back since. The only regret I have is that I didn't discover it sooner.