Was Ocon to Blame for Verstappen Accident?

[Bob Schumaker]

I didbt see the race but there are simple rules about passing and if someone didn’t follow those rules he was at fault. Duh.

View attachment 277910
Esteban Ocon made contact with race leader Max Verstappen in Brazil, spinning the Dutchman while attempting to unlap himself - who do you think was to blame?

It isn't often you see a lapped driver attempting to pass the race leader, and that is exactly what Racing Point Force India driver Esteban Ocon attempted to achieve against Max Verstappen on the 42nd lap of the Brazilian Grand Prix, ending in contact with the Red Bull and seriously putting a dent in any hopes of Verstappen wrapping up back to back race victories for the first time in his Formula One career.

Clearly faster at that stage of the Grand Prix, Ocon would be keen to put space between himself and the then race leader Verstappen heading into the 42nd lap of 71, pitching his car up the inside of the Red Bull into the tricky downhill opening corner. Crucially, Ocon wouldn't have an overlap on the Red Bull and found himself out of space when Verstappen inevitably closed the door to take his racing line, resulting in contact between the two and an angry Verstappen to spin to the inside of the track - ending any serious chance of racing to the victory in Brazil today.

Force India would be adamant that the fault lay at Verstappen's door for the crash, despite the drivers racing on different laps, but what is your opinion of the incident?

Should lapped cars show more respect? Should Verstappen have left more room? Let us know your thoughts!

 ​

 

[Jacco van der Zaag]

Ocon is a idiot stay out of the way if the race leader passes you! Wtf!

we have every week the same discussion.. Not the discussion it self. But it is about Max. I am disappointed does not matter right or wrong Max has always the blame

Real experts here or real trolls

Well, you are the troll here.

 

[ClimaxF1]

Should Max Verstappen have avoided disastrous Esteban Ocon collision? Luke Slater breaks down Brazil GP row

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/formula...ve-avoided-disastrous-esteban-ocon-collision/

 

[Appie Kuipers]

Jonathan Palmer: This is the most bad way of driving I ever seen in F1, talking about Ocon.

 

[ClimaxF1]

When you think you heard all the comments then you stumble across a page like this.

These are some angry guys.

Red Bull Gives You Rage

https://www.gpfans.com/en/articles/3363/video-verstappen-storms-off-podium/

https://www.gpfans.com/en/articles/...wasn-t-fair-it-should-have-been-much-harsher/

 

[ears]

Ocon is a idiot stay out of the way if the race leader passes you! Wtf!

we have every week the same discussion.. Not the discussion it self. But it is about Max. I am disappointed does not matter right or wrong Max has always the blame

Real experts here or real trolls

No, you're really not getting it.

Max was not lapping Ocon. Did you watch the race?

Ocon was unlapping himself, which he is entitled to do and which, apparently, his team had agreed to his doing.

Just because someone has an opinion that is different to yours, it doesn't make them a troll or a hater.

 

[Bram Hengeveld]

Of course it was Ocon's fault, no question about it. Verstappen had every right to be very upset during the race.

However what does strike me is the sheer lack of self-control of Max (and in the past father Jos) after the race. During the podium ceremoy he can't just turn his back on the awesome Brazilian fans who have been cheering and applauding for him during the entire race like he was Senna's reincarnation. There was plenty of time between the actual accident and the race finish to regain some self-control and behave like a professional racing driver. His podium-behavior and directly afterwards confronting Ocon was not a (logical) primary response anymore but a stupid secondary emotion.

Max is an exceptionally gifted racing talent and let's hope his temper fades away a little with age but I really start to fear he looks more like his hothead father Jos than his chilled out mom Sophie.

 

[ears]

Of course it was Ocon's fault, no question about it. Verstappen had every right to be very upset during the race.

However what does strike me is the sheer lack of self-control of Max (and in the past father Jos) after the race. During the podium ceremoy he can't just turn his back on the awesome Brazilian fans who have been cheering and applauding for him during the entire race like he was Senna's reincarnation. There was plenty of time between the actual accident and the race finish to regain some self-control and behave like a professional racing driver. His podium-behavior and directly afterwards confronting Ocon was not a (logical) primary response anymore but a stupid secondary emotion.

Max is an exceptionally gifted racing talent and let's hope his temper fades away a little with age but I really start to fear he looks more like his hothead father Jos than his chilled out mom Sophie.

But, like Andrew Benson said on the BBC, Max seems to see things in such black and white when, in reality, it's always grey.

By Max's own admission it's not against the rules to unlap. And with silly F1 tyres the way they are, there's Max 30+ laps from the end of the race protecting tyres, and he's Ocon, just out of the pits on fresh rubber with a massive speed advantage.

So he unlaps himself, or attempts to. No rules broken.

If Max lets him go, Max wins the race. But he doesn't, because he thinks Ocon is wrong to do it. So he decides he's not going to let him do it. So there's an accident.

It was so reminiscent of Senna - Senna was unlapped twice by Irvine in Japan 1993. Senna was incensed, Senna punched Irvine. But Senna allowed himself to be unlapped, and Senna won.

Like Lewis said, always make sure there's space.

 

[morsify]

When you think you heard all the comments then you stumble across a page like this.

These are some angry guys.

https://www.gpfans.com/en/articles/3363/video-verstappen-storms-off-podium/

Red Bull Gives You Rage

lol, Judging by some of their comments, many of them are not even capable of behaving as well as the person they are slagging off.

 

[Bram Hengeveld]

@ears Sure, it's always easy to say that afterwards that he should have left more space which is of course very true. But you can say the exact same thing about Ocon. Why on earth try to unlap yourself while you are in a pointless 16th position? There are no points involved, there is nothing to win, apart from troubling the leader of the race.

If Max lets him go, Max wins the race.

If Ocon let him go, Max would have won the race as well

BTW, I always thought you are allowed to unlap yourself when you are "clearly" faster and without touching your opponent. The moment you touch or worse the unlapping driver is at fault at all times. With that in mind I think race control gave Ocon a justified (severe) penalty also.

 

[morsify]

@ears
BTW, I always thought you are allowed to unlap yourself when you are "clearly" faster and without touching your opponent. The moment you touch or worse the unlapping driver is at fault at all times. With that in mind I think race control gave Ocon a justified (severe) penalty also.

+1 Spot on.

 

[Fat-Alfie]

If Max lets him go, Max wins the race. But he doesn't, because he thinks Ocon is wrong to do it. So he decides he's not going to let him do it. So there's an accident.

You summed it up perfectly!

 

[Joe Hunt]

So he unlaps himself, or attempts to. No rules broken.

Blue Flag ?!

 

[Ari Antero]

Blue Flag ?!

There is no blue flag if you unlap yourself when you are "clearly" faster.

 

[Sasha Jednak]

Key word "clearly"

 

[Mathias Nielsen]

#TOTOORDERS

 

[Sasha Jednak]

So, let's say that I am driving online and I find myself in these 2 situations:
1) Faster car on newer tyres is behind me, but track is to narrow for easy overtake, so I can defend even with old tyres.
2) I am faster on new tyres and catching car ahead of me which is lap ahead of me. I am coming fast and go side by side into turn.

My choices:
1) Defend and keep position, who knows what can happen later and I can even finish ahead of him.
2) Side by side and me lap down, better not, he will overtake me in next turn, no need to push for nothing. Or try next lap and overtake long time before turn. If not, I am not faster enough.

Ocon or whoever's choices: well we all know.

 

[keto95]

Why on earth try to unlap yourself while you are in a pointless 16th position? There are no points involved, there is nothing to win, apart from troubling the leader of the race

Racing instinct. Every racer wants to overtake, lapping or unlapping.
Since it's allowed to unlap yourself, it was a normal reaction from Ocon and Verstappen paniced again which resulted in contact. (what else is new!) The boy has serious issues when it comes to close racing.
[QUOTE="Bram Hengeveld, post: 2861834, member: 2"][USER=212349]BTW, I always thought you are allowed to unlap yourself when you are "clearly" faster and without touching your opponent. The moment you touch or worse the unlapping driver is at fault at all times.[/QUOTE]
Ocon was with 0,5sec per lap on fresher tyres "clearly faster".
He didn't touch Verstappen in the 1st left-hander, Verstappen made the contact in the 2nd right-hander by turning in too tight with Ocon being already alongside. Verstappen ruined his own victory; still no brains after 4 years into F1.[/user]

 

[GAIAjohan]

Ocon's smirky face says it all.. clearly on purpose apparently
https://twitter.com/suttonimages/status/1061937354523299843?s=19

 

[Jiltjes]

Of course it was Ocon's fault, no question about it. Verstappen had every right to be very upset during the race.

However what does strike me is the sheer lack of self-control of Max (and in the past father Jos) after the race. During the podium ceremoy he can't just turn his back on the awesome Brazilian fans who have been cheering and applauding for him during the entire race like he was Senna's reincarnation. There was plenty of time between the actual accident and the race finish to regain some self-control and behave like a professional racing driver. His podium-behavior and directly afterwards confronting Ocon was not a (logical) primary response anymore but a stupid secondary emotion.

Max is an exceptionally gifted racing talent and let's hope his temper fades away a little with age but I really start to fear he looks more like his hothead father Jos than his chilled out mom Sophie.

I could not agree more Bram!
The Brasilian Fans had nothing to do with this, they deserved a podium ceremony. Put your ego aside for just 5 minutes and do your job! Thats what you get payed for.
And you and I are Dutch, saying that, so that means something!!

That said, he still is 21 and needs to learn. This was quite a good leason!!

Yoda said: "The greatest teacher, failure is"