Was Ocon to Blame for Verstappen Accident?

[kondor999]

As a former amateur driver in SCCA, I can see that a few people here haven’t actually attended a pre-race drivers’ briefing.

It is absolutely unacceptable for a lapped car to be dueling with the race leader. Period.

This is so basic, so simple, so obvious that it absolutely amazes me that there is any dissent whatsoever. They make it very clear during every drivers meeting I’ve ever attended, usually with these words:

“There’s a reason you’re being lapped. It’s because he’s FASTER THAN YOU. Make way and carry on with your own race.”

It’s exactly like a GTE trying to “duel” with an LMP1 for “position” as they’re being lapped. It’s foolish. It’s meaningless. It’s dangerous.

Now: Remember all those times Ocon crashed out with Perez? This guy will never race in F1 again. Even Toto can’t save him now (though he should mail him a nice bonus check for “services rendered”, that’s for sure).

 

[Antony Snook]

If you saw Max on the grid walk he said he did nit have a chance at leading, Because he had 4 cars in front. We have to change airo regulations to raise the vacuum behind the car and help slip streaming and passing. Not to much but a little.

 

[RichardHessels]

Ocon was ahead onto the chicane and he didn´t made a false move or anything. Verstappen ruined his own race again.

Ocon never been ahead, he been on the outside of Senna S next to him, thats all.
Not in turn 1 and not in turn 2.
Have another look at this video.

Only at the braking point Ocon is a bit ahead.
But that's the dirtiest part of the corner, so when the corner really starts he already behind Verstappen.

 

[Andy_J]

This is what the two blind Verstappen fanboys can't seem to understand - that he needed to think to win.

If you are crossing the road correctly on a pedestrian crossing, you have right way. If there is a car driving along the road too fast, and you know that he wouldn't be able to stop in time without mowing you down, do you still step out onto the crossing, adamant that you are in the right? No! You wait until it is safe, thinking 'What an idiot!' the guy was for driving too fast.

The moral high-ground means nothing if you lose the race (or your life).

Verstappen's ego is either too large, or he believes his own hype, or he doesn't have the intelligence to be a champion. I suspect it is all three.

Totally agree with that assessment. Notice you only have one "disagree". Can anyone guess who did it?

 

[michelforest]

Ocon...or any driver for that matter, is allowed to un-lap themselves if faster and in a position to pull away without impeding the leader.
There is no rule that says he cannot.

Key words here: "without impeding the leader". Ocon chose to pass Verstappen in the tight "S do Senna" and drove as if he was fighting for position, even though he was a lap behind. He could simply have waited behind Verstappen in the S and pass him in the straight right after. That's why Ocon is a complete idiot. And his refusal to admit he was wrong is even more idiotic. There is a code of conduct between drivers: don't mess with the leader if you are a lap behind.

Frankly, I used to be sorry for him that he doesn't have a drive in 2019. I am not anymore.

 

[keto95]

so when the corner really starts he already behind Verstappen.

Nope, he's still alongside and has the right to unlap himself.
Verstappen should've left more space. Period.

 

[jpalesi]

Key words here: "without impeding the leader".

There is a code of conduct between drivers: don't mess with the leader if you are a lap behind.

So, you say it's possible to overtake "without impeding the leader", and the next sentence, you say "don't mess with the leader if you are a lap behind". It's contradictory. Which is it ?

 

[michelforest]

So, you say it's possible to overtake "without impeding the leader", and the next sentence, you say "don't mess with the leader if you are a lap behind". It's contradictory. Which is it ?

*SIGH*… no contradiction. Last time I checked, "without impeding the leader" and "don't mess with the leader" means the SAME thing. You can unlap yourself IF and only IF it does not cause a problem for the leader. Which is why I wrote that Ocon could simply have waited for the nice straight that is JUST AFTER the tight "S of Senna". That's what "don't mess with the leader" means.

You're welcome.

 

[michelforest]

But Max isn't ?

Two wrongs don't make one right.

 

[jpalesi]

Two wrongs don't make one right.

Probably. But it's funny because Max fanboys have such a short memory, that they forgot that it took until June or something for Max to have a weekend where he didn't hit someone or something. Just pointing out the irony.

*SIGH*… no contradiction. Last time I checked, "without impeding the leader" and "don't mess with the leader" means the SAME thing. You can unlap yourself IF and only IF it does not cause a problem for the leader. Which is why I wrote that Ocon could simply have waited for the nice straight that is JUST AFTER the tight "S of Senna". That's what "don't mess with the leader" means.

You're welcome.

For me, don't mess with the leader means, don't even bother trying to overtake. So yes, what you try to say is contradictory.
And in case you didn't know, when there's an overtake, the overtaken car loses time more often than not (only in super long straights with stupid DRS where the overtake is completed before braking, you don't lose time). When you let somebody by, there's a loss of time, but unlapping is still allowed.

The problem here is bonehead Max still can't pick his battles. Lose a very small battle (let Ocon finish his overtake) to win the war. After four years in F1, he still haven't figured out. And you know what ? Maybe after Abu Dhabi, certainly early next year, we'll have the same argument. The fanboys will say for the 100th time that the incident isn't his fault, and people like me will say that he'd be more powerful if he could drive with his head.

 

[keto95]

You can unlap yourself IF and only IF it does not cause a problem for the leader.

The rule doesn't cover for that. It says that you're allowed to unlap yourself, even on the leader. The trick is that both cars have to cooperate to make the pass possible which Verstappen didn't do. (again!) Since Ocon was clearly faster, he had the right to try it. Karma is a bitch, isn't it?

 

[John-Eric Saxén]

Probably. But it's funny because Max fanboys have such a short memory, that they forgot that it took until June or something for Max to have a weekend where he didn't hit someone or something. Just pointing out the irony.


For me, don't mess with the leader means, don't even bother trying to overtake. So yes, what you try to say is contradictory.
And in case you didn't know, when there's an overtake, the overtaken car loses time more often than not (only in super long straights with stupid DRS where the overtake is completed before braking, you don't lose time). When you let somebody by, there's a loss of time, but unlapping is still allowed.

The problem here is bonehead Max still can't pick his battles. Lose a very small battle (let Ocon finish his overtake) to win the war. After four years in F1, he still haven't figured out. And you know what ? Maybe after Abu Dhabi, certainly early next year, we'll have the same argument. The fanboys will say for the 100th time that the incident isn't his fault, and people like me will say that he'd be more powerful if he could drive with his head.

Agree 100%. I don't see how you can unlap at all without hindering the leader in some sense, as even the impact from dirty air alone will cause time loss. And usually the overtake is only completed in the braking zone, so there is additional time loss in that part as well. I'm pretty sure if Hamilton had someone trying to unlap him in the same corner, he would give the space and complain about the move later and go home as race winner.

 

[muzikant]

Agree 100%. I don't see how you can unlap at all without hindering the leader in some sense, as even the impact from dirty air alone will cause time loss. And usually the overtake is only completed in the braking zone, so there is additional time loss in that part as well. I'm pretty sure if Hamilton had someone trying to unlap him in the same corner, he would give the space and complain about the move later and go home as race winner.

Hamilton is not under presure in his spaceship the last 5 years.. He have more experience for now... But what he did by Sirotkin in
qualification was also no good! Max is young and learning from that things like Hamilton when he was young...
but I want to see him (Ham) if he has real opposition

 

[muzikant]

Hamilton is not under presure in his spaceship the last 5 years.. He have more experience for now... But what he did by Sirotkin in
qualification was also no good! Max is young and learning from that things like Hamilton when he was young...
but I want to see him (Ham) if he has real opposition

Ocon is a compleet idiot to collide.

 

[Fat-Alfie]

...and if you substitute the word 'Ocon' for the word 'Verstappen'...?

 

[keto95]

Hamilton's comment:

"You can never assume that the person is not up your inside because he's a backmarker and he's going to back off."

"You've got to assume, you've got to be acknowledge the fact that he may be there so I'm going to leave extra space. Because actually he's in a different race to me. That's my opinion about it."

"And I felt like it was fair game for him to try to un-lap himself. Of course you don't want to cause an incident. But in those scenarios you give each other space. It's as simple as that. It's so simple to give each other space."

https://www.gpfans.com/en/articles/3374/hamilton-blames-verstappen-for-ocon-crash/

 

[muzikant]

...and if you substitute the word 'Ocon' for the word 'Verstappen'...?

Haha there was a blue flag you have see the video from Richard Hessels.. Ocon have nothing to do there in that corner if you driving on place 15 no chance but discusion is meaningless because it is Max. But if it was Hamilton everybody cry

 

[Nickl561]

are you all trying to say that if they had been driving oposite cars then max wouldnt have done exactly the same thing ....he certainly would have

 

[Emerson Meyer]

Ocon never been ahead, he been on the outside of Senna S next to him, thats all.
Not in turn 1 and not in turn 2.
Have another look at this video.

Only at the braking point Ocon is a bit ahead.
But that's the dirtiest part of the corner, so when the corner really starts he already behind Verstappen.

How many overtakes have you watched taking place on that turn? It seems none.

And considering that most of the overtakes in Interlagos take place there, it seems odd.

From hundreds of examples, take a look, in MVxPerez in 2015. Luckily for MV, Perez didn't act like a dickhead...

PS. Tell in what moment MV was AHEAD of Perez...

 

[muzikant]

How many overtakes have you watched taking place on that turn? It seems none.

And considering that most of the overtakes in Interlagos take place there, it seems odd.

From hundreds of examples, take a look, in MVxPerez in 2015. Luckily for MV, Perez didn't act like a dickhead...

PS. Tell in what moment MV was AHEAD of Perez...

First season of F1 from Max. Perez is not leader in that race and there was no blue flags att all... yeah agree it was close Max was to agresive but dont forget overtake is also a art let we on topic what happen in this weekend