Was Ocon to Blame for Verstappen Accident?

[Dazmaniac]

Did you guys see what he did to Ocon after the race? How primitive.
Mod Edit: removed provocative sentence.

He (Verstappen) hardly turned in to Olexander Usyk and knocked Ocon out. There was a bit of handbags, some pushing and shoving, with Ocon giving some back.

Or are you referring to something else I missed, as your post seems to imply Verstappen had done something totally outrageous.

 

[Appie Kuipers]

Where is all this useless discussion good for? All overhere think they know, including myself. I quit, see you next race.

 

[Ari Antero]

What was it in Monza with Bottas also 50/50 Same people like you always the hate blame to Max.

It is bit off topic but I'm a little curious. Are you trying to say that it was unfair or against the rules when Max got penalty in Monza ?

 

[muzikant]

It is bit off topic but I'm a little curious. Are you trying to say that it was unfair or against the rules when Max got penalty in Monza ?

No the problem is Max is always the blame

 

[Michel Forest]

But, like Andrew Benson said on the BBC, Max seems to see things in such black and white when, in reality, it's always grey.

By Max's own admission it's not against the rules to unlap. And with silly F1 tyres the way they are, there's Max 30+ laps from the end of the race protecting tyres, and he's Ocon, just out of the pits on fresh rubber with a massive speed advantage.

So he unlaps himself, or attempts to. No rules broken.

If Max lets him go, Max wins the race. But he doesn't, because he thinks Ocon is wrong to do it. So he decides he's not going to let him do it. So there's an accident.

The problem is not that Ocon tried to unlap himself, he has the right to do it. The problem is how he tried it: in a tight corner and as if he was fighting for position. As the leader, Max has every right not to be bothered by a backmarker. In this situation, it is Ocon’s responsability to make sure that he is not bothering the race leader. Ergo, Ocon’s responsible for the crash. He could have simply waited for another spot before unlapping himself.

 

[Michel Forest]

Irrelevant. The rule states that it's allowed to unlap yourself, so it's not at question what happens before or after in this matter. Verstappen made the contact, not Ocon.

It is in fact highly relevant. When racing, one has to think about the whole race, not just one lap at a time. Ocon knew full well his Force India was no match for the Red Bull, even with a new set of tires. He knew that it was inevitable that MV would catch him up again.

 

[muzikant]

[QUOTE = "Kurupt CDN, bericht: 2862060, lid: 133644"] Een video vanuit een chauffeursperspectief

[MEDIA = youtube] JPMYro8Z2FQ [/ MEDIA]

Wat betreft F1 in het algemeen is "ik" volledig van de wagen gevallen deze jr. als ik mezelf zie kijken naar de opening 5 rondes dan voor de laatste 3 ronden om de resultaten te vangen ..... die meestal hetzelfde zijn in de top 5

90% van de races, het zijn dezelfde 2 teams die vechten voor het podium, saaie tracks, het veld dat wordt uitgespreid in de 3e ronde en coureurs die stom zijn, zoals vandaag.

Er moet iets veranderen om de opwinding terug te brengen. [/ QUOTE]


Goede video

The problem is not that Ocon tried to unlap himself, he has the right to do it. The problem is how he tried it: in a tight corner and as if he was fighting for position. As the leader, Max has every right not to be bothered by a backmarker. In this situation, it is Ocon’s responsability to make sure that he is not bothering the race leader. Ergo, Ocon’s responsible for the crash. He could have simply waited for another spot before unlapping himself.

Agree! But some people (Max haters) are blind here to see that

 

[keto95]

[QUOTE="Michel Forest, post: 2862092, member: 319790" When racing, one has to think about the whole race, not just one lap at a time. [/QUOTE]

That's what Verstappen's lacking in, he only thinks of the moment.
He simply doesn't have the brains to look ahead and calculate the risks.

 

[Michel Forest]

A video From a drivers perspective

.

Great video, thank you for this. This is the best analysis I have seen of the incident.

 

[Michel Forest]

[QUOTE="Michel Forest, post: 2862092, member: 319790" When racing, one has to think about the whole race, not just one lap at a time.

That's what Verstappen's lacking in, he only thinks of the moment.
He simply doesn't have the brains to look ahead and calculate the risks.[/QUOTE]

I agree with you on this, but Ocon also had to think like this and he did not. And to me, Ocon was the one who had to make sure there was no collision with the leader, not the other way around. Max could have been a bit more careful, but Ocon is the guilty party here, no question.

 

[John-Eric Saxén]

 

[keto95]

I agree with you on this, but Ocon also had to think like this and he did not. And to me, Ocon was the one who had to make sure there was no collision with the leader, not the other way around. Max could have been a bit more careful, but Ocon is the guilty party here, no question.

That's why I voted as being a race incident. Ocon could've waited for the following straight and try again, but Verstappen should've left more space going into T2. Actually both are guilty on avoidable contact, although Verstappen lost more than Ocon. In the end Verstappen is the one who made the contact.

 

[Mark Brunner]

Personally I see this as a racing incident and a good learning opportunity for Max to mature. I think Max will be great, and he has showed some growth this year after some tough incidents but he has a way to go.

I could see where they assign a bit more blame to Ocon and to assess the penalty but I think its completely reasonable for Ocon to expect some room and likewise for Max to assume a lapped car might not fight as hard. We are racing right? (or what F1 calls racing...)

If the position you are in the race matters maybe they should add it to the sporting regs (You can un-lap yourself but only if they let you by! Racing is frowned upon)

Probably posted already but Karun had a nice write up on it and can see that pov shared as well but I just want to see some action!
https://drivetribe.com/p/racing-drivers-verdict-on-the-brazil

 

[InsaneOzzie]

Real racing, like Max does, does'nt come out a book, racing by the book? That's why F1 is boring for years, thanks to Max I don' fall a sleep.

I see you follow the same philosophy as Verstappen, I guess "Ignorance is bliss" remind me to never sign up for a race your in.

 

[gamer19]

It's fifty-fifty.

 

[muzikant]

It's fifty-fifty.

Haha 50/50 my ass.. they stole Max victory Yesterday

so this is the standard as people think about racing. good to know with others discusions

 

[Jacco van der Zaag]

Haha 50/50 my ass.. they stole Max victory Yesterday

so this is the standard as people think about racing. good to know with others discusions

It's not a standard. It's (mod edit for language) common sense. Something you are lacking, next to knowledge about racing and the rules, ability to discuss and looking further than Max alone.

Are you really that stubborn? By not seeing what errors Max made with Ocon? Are you that blind? Wow.

 

[muzikant]

It's not a standard. It's (mod edit for language) common sense. Something you are lacking, next to knowledge about racing and the rules, ability to discuss and looking further than Max alone.

Are you really that stubborn? By not seeing what errors Max made with Ocon? Are you that blind? Wow.

Ohh its you Jacco.. the Max hate obsesion. Never a good word for him.
why do I have to take you seriously? Every post every week you blame Max.. for all he doing

Max have makes any error in Brazil But good to know how some people thinking here about racing.

The poll here say everything but you are stupid to know it

 

[Trezoitao38]

This discussion remembers me a lot Senna vs Mansell 89.

Senna could avoided the crash, Mansell was alrealdy disqualified and refused to get out of the racing. Senna impatience made him blocked a disqualified car and both crashed.

Senna lost 89 champioship. It was a lesson he learned and made him a better pilot.

93 Senna avoided crash with Irvine and won the race.

Lets see if Max will learn something from this.

 

[Jacco van der Zaag]

Ohh its you Jacco.. the Max hate obsesion. Never a good word for him.
why do I have to take you seriously? Every post every week you blame Max.. for all he doing

Max have makes any error in Brazil But good to know how some people thinking here about racing.

The poll here say everything but you are stupid to know it

It's funny to see you posting the same things, again and again.

First, as said earlier tonight. I missed a few races.
Second, as said earlier tonight, I don't hate Max.
Third, I'm curious, how can every post I make, be hateful towards Max, where I'm the only one who is being constructive constructive with arguments?

Fourth, also said earlier tonight, as you stated 99% was Ocon to blame, I could have read it here and elsewhere, it's 69 percent here. So you're still 30% off.

You should learn to accept people's opinions. It would be easier for people to 'discuss' with you.
If that's possible with you, since it looks like you are stuck on autoplay since people started to put some blame at Verstappen, which is totally correct.

These are the last words I'm going to spill on you, since there is 0,0% chance people will get through that concrete wall of you, Mr. Blue Flag.