Verstappen: Daring or Dangerous?

Mike Kadlcak · Apr 16, 2018

MrCharme said:
Jolyon Palmer, Jos Verstappen, Mario Andretti,...

Mario? Remove Mario from that list quick before someone sees it.

MrCharme · Apr 16, 2018

Mike Kadlcak said:
Mario? Remove Mario from that list quick before someone sees it.

DEFINETELY NOT (but that might just be because I really don't like him...)

MrCharme · Apr 16, 2018

Oooops I meant Michael

bsmooth · Apr 16, 2018

Pretty simple really, patience, and he needs to learn from his team mate. He has everything he needs, just has to put it to good use.

Kevin Bradley · Apr 16, 2018

Reik Major said:
Verstappen did the opposite: Head down and through the wall.

It's the exact same wrong behavior, which Damon Hill showed in 1994 when he missed the title at Adelaide. Schumi had hit the wall hard, so it was obvious he could be overtaken from there on. But Hill steamed into the first gap, which wasn't clearly there.

Really don't see the parallel, sorry. Totally different situation. Damon's move at adeliade in '94 may have been a touch opportunistic, but Schumacher with a damaged car very clearly and deliberately closed the door just as Damon got alongside in order to stop him getting past. Vettel made no attempt to do anything like that yesterday - he even gave Max the space. Max just went in miles too deep and couldn't hold the inside line that vettel had given him.

I just wonder if we what we are seeing from max now is because of his lack of single seat experience before coming into f1 (apart from his karting of course). Most guys at this level have made and learned from these kind of mistakes well before getting into f1 during their time in f3, f2 etc. Brilliant as Max is, he doesn't have any of that kind of previous experience to draw from. Maybe that's part of the issue here, I don't know. He just needs to tone the aggression down a tiny bit without losing his edge (maybe look to the way his team mate goes about his racing).

Warlord_Gonagy · Apr 16, 2018

Simply put, Max is a veteran that races like a rookie.....

Making rookie mistakes (that move on Hamilton, Vettel, the spin at Melbourne..), and consistently too. IMO, he was brought into F1 far too early and should have spent at LEAST two more years in F2. Right now, he's simply outclassed by his teammate just because, in general, Ricciardo is aggressive but not stupid. Verstappen seems to think that what worked for Senna will work for him. What he seems to forget, is that there were certain people that Senna knew wouldn't move out of the way(Prost, Schumacher, etc.) so he couldn't just dive up their inside. If he just learned the art of being aggressive without crashing from his teammate, he would be second only to Alonso on the grid; as he is right now, he's not even top five.

MrCharme · Apr 16, 2018

Vettel even said after the race that he left a little gap, so Verstappen could go up the inside. He even left some space in case Max misjudged his breaking point, but Seb didn't expect Max to judge it that badly...

Lesley Buurlage · Apr 16, 2018

@Appie Kuipers @muzikant honestly shut up, you're the clear examples of those people that put a

name on the real dutch f1 fans

motoliser · Apr 16, 2018

I guess Verstappen fans have been a bit deceived by that win in Barcelona...they must be really young not to understand that was pure luck.

Appie Kuipers · Apr 16, 2018

Warlord_Gonagy said:
Simply put, Max is a veteran that races like a rookie.....

Making rookie mistakes (that move on Hamilton, Vettel, the spin at Melbourne..), and consistently too. IMO, he was brought into F1 far too early and should have spent at LEAST two more years in F2. Right now, he's simply outclassed by his teammate just because, in general, Ricciardo is aggressive but not stupid. Verstappen seems to think that what worked for Senna will work for him. What he seems to forget, is that there were certain people that Senna knew wouldn't move out of the way(Prost, Schumacher, etc.) so he couldn't just dive up their inside. If he just learned the art of being aggressive without crashing from his teammate, he would be second only to Alonso on the grid; as he is right now, he's not even top five.

Outclassed?? Strange why not in Q? Last year, the same! His team mate wins because he mestup! Jan Lammers: Vettel left the door open, thats why Max tried to overtake! Sure he had better take some other corner, from out our chair it's easy! Wrong move, THIS makes him not a bad driver, just to agressieve.

MrCharme · Apr 16, 2018

Appie Kuipers said:
Outclassed?? Strange why not in Q? Last year, the same! His team mate wins because he mestup! Jan Lammers: Vettel left the door open, thats why Max tried to overtake! Sure he had better take some other corner, from out our chair it's easy! Wrong move, THIS makes him not a bad driver, just to agressieve.

THE AMOUNT OF MISTAKES LATELY MAKE HIM A BAD DRIVER RIGHT NOW....

Isaac Chavira · Apr 16, 2018

That pass was a dick move and I am positive he knows it. This isn't Raceroom or Assetto. It is a real professional sport. He needs to calm the 'F' down.

leoramfo · Apr 16, 2018

Appie Kuipers said:
NO, he will lurn, we see at the end of dessin. Getting Kvyat in to this is a nogo!

Kvyat?? I`m talking about Kvyat???

snyperal · Apr 16, 2018

A little mistake, he owned up to it. I'm sure he'll get better, and I'm sure he'll be thinking about that next time he gets an opportunity. He should've won the race. ...

Reik Major · Apr 16, 2018

Kevin Bradley said:
Really don't see the parallel, sorry. Totally different situation. Damon's move at adeliade in '94 may have been a touch opportunistic, but Schumacher with a damaged car very clearly and deliberately closed the door just as Damon got alongside in order to stop him getting past. Vettel made no attempt to do anything like that yesterday - he even gave Max the space. Max just went in miles too deep and couldn't hold the inside line that vettel had given him.

Well, I don't intend to compare the whole incidents but the parallel which quickly jumps into my mind is the misjudgement of the driver trying to make the pass. In both incidents it seems obvious, that there had been more promising occasions a short time later.

I agree that Schumi deliberately closed the door there and many, many people blamed him it was a dirty move but from his perspective it was the most (race) intelligent move he could make to eventually win it all. I always honestly felt sorry for Damon that he wasn't relaxed enough to wait for a better occasion to pass Schumi.

But hey, it's just some thoughts of a sim racer, who never has been in a real race situation.

So who am I?

Appie Kuipers · Apr 16, 2018

German sports program: es wird nur gesprochen uber Max/Vettel, wie war es dan mit Alonso/Vettel?
Why only talk about Max/Vettel and not about Alonso/Vettel. Alonso pust Vettel completely of track! Max is in the picture, Alonso not or less! Alonso has experiance enough. Rest my case.

muzikant · Apr 16, 2018

Lesley Buurlage said:
@Appie Kuipers @muzikant honestly shut up, you're the clear examples of those people that put a name on the real dutch f1 fans

And why? This is my opinion

muzikant · Apr 16, 2018

motoliser said:
I guess Verstappen fans have been a bit deceived by that win in Barcelona...they must be really young not to understand that was pure luck.

Yess it was luck.. but you need luck my friend! But in your first race in a redbull and a faster ferrari behind you...and stay cool that is not all about luck.

muzikant · Apr 16, 2018

Lesley Buurlage said:
@Appie Kuipers @muzikant honestly shut up, you're the clear examples of those people that put a name on the real dutch f1 fans

And what is a real dutch fan?

Lesley Buurlage · Apr 16, 2018

muzikant said:
And what is a real dutch fan?

one who's able to look objectively at the sport we love, not praise our national homeboy like he's some kind of god. i like verstappen, but it's allowed to criticise him fairly