Vanilla Balance Mod Beta - Testers Wanted

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This mod has now been released. All the changes are listed in the above link. If a Forum Admin is reading this, if you could remove the "Testers Wanted" and change it to "Development Discussion" thread, it would be appreciated.

UPDATED TO WORK WITH 1.3

Note: In attempts to fix the interviews and dilemmas, I have temporarily removed all non English languages from those two files. I hope to reinsert them into a later version (but when I do, they'll still be the vanilla text as I am unable to translate in any other language).

 
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Another thought before I go to bed - can anything be done with some of the rules that were not implemented, like 'Unlimited use of test track in the season', which could have effects like giving a bonus when producing engines and gearboxes, or making them start with more reliability or lower redzone as you'd have the ability to 'test' the parts prior to them being put on the car. This could have an effect on every team and in some cases make for a reliable field which is more difficult for a bad car to overcome, which can go for or against you. I reckon some of the other part specific rules would be more cost related, with simpler part rules meaning lower production costs over the more sophisticated options.
 
Another thought before I go to bed - can anything be done with some of the rules that were not implemented, like 'Unlimited use of test track in the season', which could have effects like giving a bonus when producing parts, or making them start with more reliability or lower redzone as you'd have the ability to 'test' the parts prior to them being put on the car. This could have an effect on every team and in some cases make for a reliable field which is more difficult for a bad car to overcome, which can go for or against you.
All of which you state is not beyond the realm of possibility.

Actually, that one is easy. Assuming I can make a new rule (likely) all I have to do is say IF RULE in championship = True Set Variable "Bob = 1", Else "Bob = 0"

And then were I put my Redzone/Reliability into the new parts of the season, I just say...
blah blah blah 0.3 redzone - Chassis stats - 0.2*Bob.
Done...

Same for reliability, same for a whole set of things.
 
um.... I think they're scattered... saw remnants of Max Budgets but with little way of seeing how that would work!!!

I just remembered my most desired feature from ages ago!

I dedicate this one to Bey!:

The Prizemoney from the end of the season goes mostly to the Chairman! As a return on his investment *and to give you monthly installments next year!
 
Now clearly, there's only one right answer for this, namely the chassis creation ;)

I hope this includes the GT car model from Chris, wouldn't want to play without 'em!

The deciding factor could well be more on the case on how the models are setup and how much work people might want to put into this. Each model would need to be named specifically to coinside with championship name / team name + any in game variable manipulation i create.

In terms of work load, it would be far easier to just have a few version of Single Seater and GT cars, and have them tweaked every couple of seasons to freshen the look for the entire field (could make it a rule which has this and other performance effects). That's setting up about 12 models in the right format, and being in a format ready to accept liveries.

If you're after several versions to choose between, but want all the teams to be independant, then the setup becomes tenfold. Okay, the the model number of unique models isthe same and the same work goes in for the models to accept a livery, but 120 models would need to be packed and named correctly and importated and tested correctly.

Chis is already working on 25 seasons of 10 individual F1 cars with liveries (so 250 seperate models) for a Historic mod, which changes the models yearly. However the time to do this is monumental.

And worse still, for this type of mod, all the work would would need to be redone in its entirity when another dlc with new tiers and models comes out too, with the work increasing yet again!

Personally, just seeing an F1 car get turned into a FormulaE car from one season to another was amazing. And the scope of what is posssible is great. But the hard work to make such a thing possible doesn't lie with me - as I doubt I could get model creation working myself as I know nothing really about 3d models.

But hey, if several people really want this to happen and can work out how to get the models into the game - then the more models that are in, the more I can customise the feature. And in honesty, the most customisable - to make the cars feel alive, the better. But it would be up to others to put the workload in on the model side.

Hmm, I guess the question is what would be the drawback? Blocking creation of new parts? Something like that would be required, otherwise it's a nobrainer to start is as early as possible.
I assume this would be the drawback. 0 Factory Staff, No Reliabiliy improvements, no Performance improvement, no new parts. All to increase reliability or something for the new season. Might be possible - maybe get a monthly mail with the dilemma. Stop all work now vs -x reliability on parts next season. Its not impossible.... (I wonder if we can get dilemmas to spawn on given days... one spawns on a birthday so I guess that would be a thing!)

My solution for this would be purely financial... just make it so damn expensive to maintain a fully upgraded HQ, that it's basically impossible. Then again, that would still ask for downgrade possibility, in order to avoid ruining everything with that mistake.

I thought about the idea of having Only 1 Legendary Part unlocked... with a further 2 Epics, and the last 3 restricted to great... but you could bring back your HQ down to move a different part to Legendary... But I feel that woudlnt be that fun.

The finianical thing while good, isn't great because the AI are set to build, build, build to and would sink their finances too.

I wonder If I can just make Building goes down a level Dilemmas... "As time moves on, our once State of the Art test track is falling behind with the times. We need a sizable investment or we're really not going to see the benefit from it we once saw!"... Thats probably the way to go....

(We;re going to have Dilemmas out of our ears)s

Vote for this. I'm not a biggest fan of the current logic of ever-increasing stats, even if it works OK. I'd much rather see the chassis as more important part of the whole thing.

I don't mind the forever growing parts. But I feel that the Engine in particular needs to be more Chassis Based. Saying that, I don't want it to just be a "Pay lots of money on the chassis to win!". I think there could be a nice balance with the engine at least. The problem is... would then in season upgrades for it mean anything? This one needs to be carefuly considered.

I made steps forward when I added new elements to each of the Chassis Stats... But I still think chassis needs a bit of a massive overhaul in general. It needs Massive Cons at little money spent and Some pros and still some cons with high money spent, without taking anything away from the rest of the game.... It will be a long balancing act.

As a non-listed item I sort of brushed on before: I think some sort of permanent wear mechanism would add a little something to the game. As in red zone increasing over time (or performance / reliability / both decresing, or all three being affected). This could be limited to player only, since AI probably would have problems with it, but we are looking for more ways to make players life hard, right?

Brain also had an idea. He wanted Part Age to increase the probability of random part failure. I couldn't find which variable part age was at at the time, and I couldn't do it anyway for the way I made that random failure code.... Times have changed and I could do that now if I wished.

But I thought that I could add additional wear per tic the older a part was too (I do like the idea of part age doing something).

Your putting the 'daily decline' on to this is another interesting thing as well (and would play a vitial role in the 'When To Start Develipment' scenario if that comes to life. As will the factory staffs morale and work rate.
 
If you're after several versions to choose between, but want all the teams to be independant, then the setup becomes tenfold. Okay, the the model number of unique models isthe same and the same work goes in for the models to accept a livery, but 120 models would need to be packed and named correctly and importated and tested correctly.

I'll gladly give this a try myself... to my mind, this would be a major feature to make GT feel different. In single seaters building your own car makes more sense, but GT certainly could use a different approach.
 
Never tested it on a mac. I don't have a mac

....

...
:D If you want to buy me a mac to test it, I will accept sizable donations!

That I'm afraid I could not do. What I can do is help you testing and debugging if it helps?! I am a developer myself (Web mostly) so I may know what you will be looking for in debugging maybe?!

Let me know if you're willing to support mac as well :)
 
That I'm afraid I could not do. What I can do is help you testing and debugging if it helps?! I am a developer myself (Web mostly) so I may know what you will be looking for in debugging maybe?!

Let me know if you're willing to support mac as well :)
I can't really see how I can support a mac version of this mod unfortunately without a mac and being able to debug and test it for myself. And It might mean my works would double as then probability that I could give up my job to make mods is pretty slim (but hey, any rich people who wants me to work on games instead of on my Weekend job, are welcome to headhunt me). Disclaimer - I am very lazy though. And I'd want to choose my own projects. But would be happy with a sensible salary on a years or two contract. Wink wink.

So unless my above CV there entices anyone, I really doubt I can support macs.

If you want to come and help, have a look at the 24 car thread from Shaun. I hit a wall when I was met with a game object which obviously has a hard coded 20 car limit inside it. Maybe you can see something there which I do not.


I'll gladly give this a try myself... to my mind, this would be a major feature to make GT feel different. In single seaters building your own car makes more sense, but GT certainly could use a different approach.

Go for it! :) basically they're saved in a format like (but nit exactly) ChampSeries01, ChampSeries02... ChampSeries05.... and these can be extended to 06.... 10..... 120

Then what my code did was each year, instead of calling "this,championship" it would call "this,championship+5" so instead of say, Series01 loading, it would load Series06...

And the +5 can instead be any 'compatable' variable. We have it going up by age. But it's probably possible to save it as some sort of variable from the chassis.

And for Chris' 25 year history of F1, instead of ChampionshipSeriesXX, it's teamXX (with more models needed but exactly the same principle...

So if we can just get a string of IDs with compatible models ready, it shouldn't be too hard to get a different one called each season. It's as I said, just the effort of getting 3D models sorted.

At a push... I could probably get GT and SS models to work differently... (I assume an IF this,team < 30 (single sweaters) then grab a model from this set using this equation... IF this.team >= 30 (gt) then grab a model using this equation from the suppliers. It's likely this is possible.

------------------
 
Hi FlamingRed here are the stats.
Driver Skills.jpg Mechanic Skills.jpg
And here are the tooltips
https://www.dropbox.com/s/jwu1ue7pwhb47mh/Driver & Mechanic Stats-Tooltips.rar?dl=0
If you need anything else, just say it.;)
 
Drivers isn't too bad. There's only a couple of stats that do nothing.

Breaking
  • Does nothing! (That's not true.. final pace is based of the total of all stats so it's contributing to pace but it has no additional feature).
  • I am thinking about using this to reduce the 'points towards lockups' when attacking / defending (which massively increases the chances of a lockup by default).
Corning
  • Does nothing again (just contributing to the total).
  • I'm s little torn on this one, seeing as Corning itself is normally more of a car constraint then corner skill. I am thinking as a game mechanic that this could be used as a 'Defending position Boost' - as when overtaking, the overtaking stat is used for both Overtaking and Defending. This seperstion of stats (and increase in potency) might make some intertesting battles.
Smoothness
  • This is originally used as a Three Tier system. The top third have some extra laps tyre life, bottom third have some less laps tyre life.
  • I wonder if it should add to the tyre wear in general based on flat. Not overpowering but just a slight addition to the current stat strength.
Overtaking
  • Only used with the overtaking system. Used for both overtaking and defending.
  • Want to remove the defending from the stat but add to its potency.
Consistency
  • Does nothing.
  • I want to make it so that it adds a random element to laptimes, with the randomness decreased further and further as the consistency score is closer to 20.
Adaptability
  • Does nothing.
  • I think it should decrease some of the time penalty when wet weather occurs. So that adaptable perople are simply faster in the rain. Alternatively, I could make it that these drivers reduce the lock up impact from rain effects.
Fitness
  • Effects the lock up chances during the final 30% of the race,
  • Increased the effect already in the mod, but may make it bigger.
Feedback
  • Used to increase knowledge quicker.
  • Probably the most balanced stat. Don't think I really need to add anything to it.
Focus
  • Effects the lock up chances during the entire races.
  • Increased already in the mod, may increase it further,
 
Maybe... :coffee:

Braking
- Lower lockups and tyre wear.

Cornering
- Could give better lap times on tracks with more corners.
- Could lower lockups, spins and crashes since most of them happens in corners.

Smoothness
- To be honest I don't like the 3 Tier system. I would love to see something like the ranking system in the SSDD file for Critical Parts.

Overtaking
- If it's not, should also be effective in other engine modes and not just Overtaking (or Super Overtaking). Because micro managing two drivers all the time takes the fun out of the races.

Consistency
- That's a good idea.

Adaptability
- Could also effect the relationship with mechanic.
- A high Adaptability could also give a performance boost.

Fitness
- Sounds great.

Feedback
- Also good.

Focus
- Could also lower the spin and crash probabilities.

EDIT: How is the defend system working in the game? Is there something I can do to make them defend better?
 
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I am thinking about using this to reduce the 'points towards lockups' when attacking / defending (which massively increases the chances of a lockup by default).
Wait!! the game doesn't already have this in?!!

Feedback
  • Used to increase knowledge quicker.
  • Probably the most balanced stat. Don't think I really need to add anything to it.

I was thinking about this the other day, is there a way that a driver with better feedback will give you more accurate race feedback
A few examples i can think of.
when in changing conditions a driver pops up saying can we change the tyres >> can a better feedback driver say this at the right time like before passing the pits or bad drivers make this call a lap to early for changed tyre type
Another would be on the wear of the tyre and when it needs changing or even if when to push certain engine modes [for this you can use IF fuel is in excess + feedback good then message to push engine mode] disclamier that is very basic :)
 
Haven't posted in awhile, but till following all of this. Super excited for the new changes, but on the topic of the Feedback stat. Is there any way to couple it in with a performance bonus on new parts made throughout the season? Like how, I'm real life, there are some drivers that really push the development of the cars because they have a better understanding of where the car is lacking?

Also, I know it was a couple days ago, but you guys were throwing around ideas for pre-season testing. Could we have it impact initial part reliability for the season? If they had a good test, then their parts are better developed and more reliable? Maybe even a boost to initial performance, too? Just a couple thoughts.
 
Also, while playing tonight, I had another thought. Is there any way that we can pay, maybe, 2.5 times the cost of a part to make two of them? Say I'm Steinmann Principal, and I want to make my two prima donas happy. Can equal status be actually equal? And they have the exact same cars, but I have to pay a bit more money. Or, if I get up to a legendary front wing, could I make two? I feel like it would be helpful, and also another chance to be able to throw around your financial might a little more.
 
Is there any way that we can pay, maybe, 2.5 times the cost of a part to make two of them?

This reminded me of something I was thinking about engineer traits earlier...

Would it make sense to duplicate the existing skills, such as the "make second part for free" and have different levels of the trait based on the component level it occupies? So lev 1 "build another part" skill would have for example a part cost of 2.5x (thus only saving time), while lev 5 of the version of same skill would have a cost of 1.5x or something, thus saving both money AND time.

Similar thing could be used for other parts, too, for example the risk reducing thingy and so on.

Main problem I see with this is, that we'd need some sort of way to try and prevent multiple of those skills being chosen for the engineers, it would be kinda lame to end up with a guy who only has different versions of the same skill.
 

Braking
- Lower lockups and tyre wear.
I like the idea of it ALSO reducing reducing the LOCK UP DAMAGE

Cornering
- Could give better lap times on tracks with more corners.
- Could lower lockups, spins and crashes since most of them happens in corners.
I am reluctant to make better lap times on certain tracks from drivers as that's a mechanic which already exists for the 'car performance points and crucial part' system. I see the logic in the idea but I want to keep these things separate.
- there's already focus, fitness and soon to be breaking impacting lockups (maybe adaptability too). I don't want to pile other stats in here.


Smoothness
- To be honest I don't like the 3 Tier system. I would love to see something like the ranking system in the SSDD file for Critical Parts.
I don't mind the tier system because it relies not on the total points, but the points compared to all the other drivers. Even if there's a distribution of (20,20,20,20,20,20,20,19,19,19,19,19,19,19,19,19,19,18,18,18,18,18,18,18,1).
Because of the league you're in, it makes it so having the best driver important despite the stats being so high.
However, I feel the driver with 1 smoothness at the end should be additionally punished. Which is what extra wear rate based on the stat would do.


Overtaking
- If it's not, should also be effective in other engine modes and not just Overtaking (or Super Overtaking). Because micro managing two drivers all the time takes the fun out of the races.
You confused what I mean by overtaking. I didn't mean the driving style, I meant the calculation which leads one driver to overtake the other (there's a nice equation for working out the success probability for each overtake and it's basically 'Overtaking Points vs Defending Points', but both drivers use the same stat from overtaking, hence me wanting to separate them (as some drivers are a lot better at holding position then overtaking,

Consistency
- That's a good idea.
I thought this is how the mechanic would have worked. Shocked to see it did not,

Adaptability
- Could also effect the relationship with mechanic.
- A high Adaptability could also give a performance boost.
I feel this is moving into people's 'traits' territory. Relationship boost actually sounds like a stat feedback might like,
I am also reluctant to give a flat 'make person faster all the time' from a stat, as then that would be the stat everyone goes for. Having this only effect the driver in wet weather makes sense (and also makes the wet weather driver traits really useful in the rain!)


Fitness
- Sounds great.
Oddly, this still doesn't sound like the most useful of stats, as lockups and such doesn't happen as much late race, I was thinking about maybe a small time loss in the last 30% of the race too (reduced to 0 if the stat =20)

Feedback
- Also good.

Focus
- Could also lower the spin and crash probabilities.
Oh, when I say lower the chance of lock ups, I automatically refer to spins and crashes too, as they're the same system

How is the defend system working in the game? Is there something I can do to make them defend better?
Basically, not unlike lockups,crashes,spins.

There's a point systems for both the attacking and fending car: car performances, tyre types, tyre conditions, engine mode, driving style, and the Overtaking stat. Each driver gets a tally.

Then it does something which Hudson didn't like. It does Random(0,Overtaking Points total) vs Random(0, Defending Points total). Obviously, the better one persons points over the other gives them more chance from this "dice roll". I'm fine with these types,of dice rolls as I like table top games and am okay with the mechanic, but I know Hudson wished to change the system.

This was ages ago though, and I was still learning ILSpy, so I didn't want to adjust the 'racing process' very much. May look into this one day though,

Wait!! the game doesn't already have this in?!!



I was thinking about this the other day, is there a way that a driver with better feedback will give you more accurate race feedback
A few examples i can think of.
when in changing conditions a driver pops up saying can we change the tyres >> can a better feedback driver say this at the right time like before passing the pits or bad drivers make this call a lap to early for changed tyre type
Another would be on the wear of the tyre and when it needs changing or even if when to push certain engine modes [for this you can use IF fuel is in excess + feedback good then message to push engine mode] disclamier that is very basic :)

The issue with the feedback messages is that they're triggered at precise times in the dll when a condition is met... obviously, as we always ignore the drivers, the condition is not normally accurate. I'd have to fix it before I learned how to brake it and allow feedback to come into play here, but a nice idea, (but a long idea as each message is triggered at different events and I'd have to find and edit each one).

Taking about intentional inaccuracy!! New wish list idea: in accurate weather forecast!

Haven't posted in awhile, but till following all of this. Super excited for the new changes, but on the topic of the Feedback stat. Is there any way to couple it in with a performance bonus on new parts made throughout the season? Like how, I'm real life, there are some drivers that really push the development of the cars because they have a better understanding of where the car is lacking?

Also, I know it was a couple days ago, but you guys were throwing around ideas for pre-season testing. Could we have it impact initial part reliability for the season? If they had a good test, then their parts are better developed and more reliable? Maybe even a boost to initial performance, too? Just a couple thoughts.

Feedback stat on new parts - I'm going to say no because I want the designer to be in charge of this, as it's his primary function. I have considered that the designer stats could have secondary function but not thought about it yet,

Pre season testing - this may well be the approach taken. I've still not looked at pre season testing yet, the list is very long and I'm focusing on the 'easy to add' stuff first (which is generally stuff I have experience in editing already... even after months, there are so many classes in the code I've not had a proper look at yet,

Also, while playing tonight, I had another thought. Is there any way that we can pay, maybe, 2.5 times the cost of a part to make two of them? Say I'm Steinmann Principal, and I want to make my two prima donas happy. Can equal status be actually equal? And they have the exact same cars, but I have to pay a bit more money. Or, if I get up to a legendary front wing, could I make two? I feel like it would be helpful, and also another chance to be able to throw around your financial might a little more.

This reminded me of something I was thinking about engineer traits earlier...

Would it make sense to duplicate the existing skills, such as the "make second part for free" and have different levels of the trait based on the component level it occupies? So lev 1 "build another part" skill would have for example a part cost of 2.5x (thus only saving time), while lev 5 of the version of same skill would have a cost of 1.5x or something, thus saving both money AND time.

Similar thing could be used for other parts, too, for example the risk reducing thingy and so on.

Main problem I see with this is, that we'd need some sort of way to try and prevent multiple of those skills being chosen for the engineers, it would be kinda lame to end up with a guy who only has different versions of the same skill.

I like the multiple part idea. Of course, if it's taking up the legendary slot, it does need to be very cheap/free - that's a hell of a boost you're sacrificing to get it. But you could add one per level. You can even have Reduce Performance variants in the lower ranks so it's not overpowered.

To prevent it from lameness for a designer with different versions of the same skill is to vary the skill. Admittedly it makes no sense to do this on average anyway (with no other improvements why make 2 of the original parts?)... so that's 4 slots, Good can have some performance reductions, great can be a lot of extra cost, epic can have cost butbless reliabily, and legendary can have free... or maybe a cost but - 1 risk too..
There are lots of variants to fleshing things up...

Not sure what happens if you select two extra part perks... do you end up with three pats? (That has an advantage if you use RIsKY parts! You have a spare i case one is banned!)
 
LIve Log of Changes for 1.31e as they happen.

Breaking
  • Reduced the 'points towards lockups/Spins/Crash' when attacking / defending (which massively increases the chances of a lockup by default).
  • Decreased tyre lock up wear is lock ups occur. (Boosted original value up).
  • Needs testing
Corning
  • This is now a defending stat. I'll try to remember to change the Frontend Entry to say as much.
Smoothness
  • Added an additional tyre wear pernalty/perk for smoothness.
  • Am considering reversing this for "component condition loss rate" (have now added this is.... considering removing the tyre wear thing). I feel smoothness is now overkill.
Overtaking
  • Increased the Potency of both the overtake and defending stats so theyre really damned important.
Consistency
  • Added a random elemente to laptime, and is removed per point of consistancy.
Adaptability
  • Is now faster the more rain is on track
Fitness
  • Effects the lock up chances during the final 30% of the races.
  • Already increased in current version. increased its effect.
  • Added effect that dirvers with bad fitness are also slower during the final 30% of the race.
Feedback
  • Used to increase knowledge quicker.
  • Unchanged
Focus
  • Effects the lock up chances during the entire races.
  • Increased already in the mod, unchanged

Edit: I feel the Good/Average/Bad start system should be stat assisted (instead of total RNG). ANyway wish to suggest which stat this may be?
 
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