USGP Driver of the Day - VOTE NOW!

[Andy_J]

My driver of the day was Ocon. He did extremely well in my opinion.

As for Verstappen's penalty. There are some serious Max fans and rule breakers here if they think what he did was acceptable. The stewards were being lenient on track limits (as the C4 team were informed by Mika Salo, main steward for the day) but it's really is one thing to cut the track or go wide with all 4 wheels off without gaining too much of an advantage, but if you (or Lauda for that matter) think it's ok to over take by getting all 4 wheels off the track on the inside of a corner where the racing line is so pronounced, then you are mad. That is taking a short cut folks, it is cheating. Nikki Lauda would have been the first to protest if Max had done the same thing to Hamilton.

The guy went off track to gain a position and some of you think that is OK? Get real.

This was the decision and it's clear as a bell. I do not understand how anyone can argue with the decision.The stewards had no choice and did the right thing. Jos Verstappen and Christian Horner need to learn when to accept the facts and thus when to shut up. Yes other drivers were going off the track all weekend but they weren't overtaking or cutting corners, just running wide on exiting a corner.

The stewards' decision
Fact: Car 33 left the track in turn 17, gaining a lasting advantage

Decision: Five-second time penalty (1 penalty point awarded)

Reason: The Stewards examined video evidence and concluded that car 33 did leave the track, with all four wheels clearly off the track by at least half a metre, and overtook car 7 in doing so. The driver did gain a lasting advantage.

 

[Coffer]

One more thing regarding the track limits: if they're being enforced, you usually do not get a penalty instantly, but rather over several incidents. Just like in the F1 games. Remember Alonso getting a penalty in Russia a couple of years back? That's because he did it too many times, not just one time.

In fact, to put it in the simplest terms imaginable: start up F1 2017, turn on strict corner cutting rules and try overtaking there by going off-track the exact same way Verstappen did. You'll immediately be told to give the position back. Try cutting it at any other time and you'll just get a warning at most. This is exactly how it works in real life and exactly how it's worked in any motorsport for the last few decades.

 

[apex11]

Track limits are a real issue especially now with the tacks even club tracks being opened up for safety reasons.
I know couple of race instructors and my family are club racers running a small team and there is very strict letter of law rules in club racing which is arguably done 'just for fun'. But then these guys watch BTCC and see drivers cutting whole parts of corners and almost re designing some corners (Knockhill, silverstone national, donington etc etc) so its very hard to tell club racers off when the pros all do it som much, i do track days at donington and there are some sections which you can simply cut as the race cars have smoothed out a new track...
I'm not advocating walls, but at least flat poles which if run over go flat but the deal would be if you touch these 'pole's then you get a penalty...

 

[ears]

What about common sense?

Do the Verstappen army really believe what they are saying?

People seem to think that the decision to penalise Verstappen was 'inconsistent'.

Inconsistent with what?

Show me all the other decisions where one driver 'undertook' another driver by cutting a corner where the driver was not penalised.

The petulant backlash coming from the Verstappens and being supported by Red Bull is astonishing to me.

 

[antirussia81]

I agree as Sainz is a better driver than Palmer but Palmer has had a 6th this year..

...in a wet race that was full of incidents (and Sainz was fourth there ). That said, I don't claim Palmer hasn't been improving - he has but, as you said, Sainz is just better.

 

[WOKOWEN1]

Honestly I don't think Verstappen deserves all this attention!!! Simply because the reason he moved through the field was due to the upgraded car and he hasn't done any better than what is team mate does very often without the upgrades and inside track limits. Ok he is young and I understand people think he is amazing but seriously guys isn't being young a big advantage in F1 racing these days????

 

[apex11]

...in a wet race that was full of incidents (and Sainz was fourth there ). That said, I don't claim Palmer hasn't been improving - he has but, as you said, Sainz is just better.

I'm more of a MotoGP guy so not fully up to knowledge of the F1 politics but Red Bull had an engine upgrade for Max so i'd imagine the Renault works team had it as well, if not they are mad, Sainz and Max's performances were great, but maybe in Sainz case about expected really, i.e. put Sainz in the Merc of Lewis's and he would be unhappy to come anywhere under 4th...

 

[apex11]

Honestly I don't think Verstappen deserves all this attention!!! Simply because the reason he moved through the field was due to the upgraded car and he hasn't done any better than what is team mate does very often without the upgrades and inside track limits. Ok he is young and I understand people think he is amazing but seriously guys isn't being young a big advantage in F1 racing these days????

For the most part i do agree with this, regards F1 in particular it seems to be the extreme of some drivers are on worse rubber / lower engine mode / different engine spec, aero package.. / fuel ammont etc etc, so so many variables and thats before we get into passing because of a DRS BHP boost down a straight ...
The amount of over takes based simply on tyres and engine modes its frankly a bit of a joke IMO..
I also don't think that Bottas although CLEARLY not as good as Lewis should be getting closer so I think there is an engine mode / upgrade hes not getting, IMO..

 

[sniper420]

Hartley is dotd (Biased Kiwi here) ..

Came in with a weeks notice, unprepared, didn't quite get up to speed but no one without current experience would tbh. I'd say his objective was to keep it on the track and out of the barriers/other cars no mistakes and finish the race.

Finished 13th after starting 19th (compared that to Kvyat who finished 10th from starting 11th) is highly respectable, the team should be happy with the drive. Give him a couple more GPs and I'd say he'd be faster than Kvayt pretty quickly.

His best lap (1 minute 39.979 seconds) was faster than Kvyat's best of 1 minute 40.971. In fact, Hartley regularly managed faster lap times over the final 15 laps.

Naturally there will be unfair comparisons with Sainz in his first GP with Renault keep in mind the context of 6 straight years F1 experience vs one weekend

Als, just to note that he is currently above both Di Resta and Button in the drivers championship (all three have had one race) and is just behind Pierre Gasly (2 races - finished 13th and 14th)

All in all a solid weekend for the kiwi. Hope he gets another drive!

 

[Enzo Fazzi]

30 day premium ban for Verstappen?

 

[Martin Maaskant]

As a Dutch F1 fan I can only say the problem that I had with the penalty is the inconsistency of the stewards. You always gain an advantage when driving over the lines or when cutting a corner. If you do so while overtaking an other car does not matter. So IMO penalize all the drivers who don't respect the track limits or don't penalize them at all. For the race. It was very enjoyable to watch al lot of action. And for Verstappen. Even with his 4th place he did a great job.

 

[samcar304]

Kyvatt 9th in debut, Hartley bumbled around at the back. Why do you dislike Kyvatt so much?
I'd expect ANY pro driver to get into a current F1 car and at least be able to bumble around at the back...in fact i'd expect any driver to be able to do that...

I don't hate Kvyat i think he is a good driver. He performed very well in 2015 and placed higher in the WDC than his highly rated teammate Ricciardo. If it wasn't for a few overly ambitious moves that put him in a precarious position within the team then i feel we would have seen him continue his form he shown in 2015. In 2017 and late 2016 Kvyat was not the same driver as he was during that first year with Red Bull. And thats what has sadly put him in this position of unknown. If he would have continued to perform at the level he was before the Red Bull demotion however thats easier said than done though considering what something like that can do to a persons mental state. But I think Kvyat is a solid driver and I would be happy if he stayed next year to develop the car next to rookie Gasly. If not i hope he gets a seat at in the SMP LMP1 team. As for Hartley its a completely different kettle of fish, For someone who its their first time racing a Hybrid F1 car that is different to his Porsche. He was there and behind Stroll keeping within a second of him to a driver that has had all year in the car and use to how it will react and the abnormal tire situation which Hartley would have had to work around. Do I think Hartley deserves a seat next season? probably not but it was a good showing from and he brought the car home in one piece and thats all you can really ask from someone making their debut.

 

[Deleted member 217114]

One thing is go outside of the ...... (inside the corner + OVERTAKE) = 5 sec penalty.

But what I've learned from Sim Racing is that white lines are outside of the track, so driving this corner full kerbs means he is still on track, cause he it not over the white lines :O So for me Verstappen is the real winner.

 

[apex11]

Hartley is dotd (Biased Kiwi here) ..

Came in with a weeks notice, unprepared, didn't quite get up to speed but no one without current experience would tbh. I'd say his objective was to keep it on the track and out of the barriers/other cars no mistakes and finish the race.

Finished 13th after starting 19th (compared that to Kvyat who finished 10th from starting 11th) is highly respectable, the team should be happy with the drive. Give him a couple more GPs and I'd say he'd be faster than Kvayt pretty quickly.

His best lap (1 minute 39.979 seconds) was faster than Kvyat's best of 1 minute 40.971. In fact, Hartley regularly managed faster lap times over the final 15 laps.

Naturally there will be unfair comparisons with Sainz in his first GP with Renault keep in mind the context of 6 straight years F1 experience vs one weekend

Als, just to note that he is currently above both Di Resta and Button in the drivers championship (all three have had one race) and is just behind Pierre Gasly (2 races - finished 13th and 14th)

All in all a solid weekend for the kiwi. Hope he gets another drive!

All it shows to me, is that quite rightly any pro driver could get into an F1 car and drive it around, like i say i'd go as far as many non pro drivers. No it doesn't mean they will be WDC or race winners but then neither will this Hartly bloke.
It's not show, to me at least, how fantastic and a genius Hartly is, but how 'easy' it is to simply drive an F1 car around.
I think someone like Chris Harris could simply get into an F1 car and roll around driving to percentages and stroke it home...
When an 18 year old whose Dad paid for him to be there can do it, anyone from GP2 can do it.
Not sure why such a wow factor in a pro driver being able to drive one of the most advanced and purpose built machines in the world around a track at the back..
These cars have so much aero grip now there are many corners which can be taken flat.

 

[ears]

You always gain an advantage when driving over the lines or when cutting a corner. If you do so while overtaking an other car does not matter.

Is the advantage gained from running wide on a corner the same as the advantage gained from cutting the inside of a corner and undertaking a car that is sticking to track limits?

 

[Andy_J]

Is the advantage gained from running wide on a corner the same as the advantage gained from cutting the inside of a corner and undertaking a car that is sticking to track limits?

No probably not. But going wide at corners allows faster entry speed and possibly faster exit speeds as the corner radius is greater and invariably smoother. Either way it's wrong when done on purpose to gain/maintain speed etc. And it's really wrong to do it to overtake on the inside or outside.

 

[el_mattpro]

But what I've learned from Sim Racing is that white lines are outside of the track, so driving this corner full kerbs means he is still on track, cause he it not over the white lines :O So for me Verstappen is the real winner.

Wait.. are you telling me that Verstappen didn't cross the white lines ??? you kidding? honestly, look a replay of the manouver, complete car 4 wheels inside the track (off) and you have like half a tyre distance to the kerb and the white line in the APEX. Stop comparing real life to Racing Simulator.

 

[Martin Maaskant]

Is the advantage gained from running wide on a corner the same as the advantage gained from cutting the inside of a corner and undertaking a car that is sticking to track limits?

You can argue that it isn't. On the other hand if you cut corners you achieve a better laptime which could get you to your opponent what wouldn't be the case if you stuck to the track limits. My point is wrong is wrong regardless of the circumstances. I suspected Verstappen would be penalized by forcing Bottas of the track. Also not a very clean move IMO.

 

[Ole Marius Myrvold]

But what I've learned from Sim Racing is that white lines are outside of the track, so driving this corner full kerbs means he is still on track, cause he it not over the white lines :O So for me Verstappen is the real winner.

Sorry mate, I have to disagree with you in this case.

The white line defines the edges of the track, and kerbs are not a part of the track. It is the white line on the actual asphalt, before the kerb starts that is the edge of the track.

 

[Enzo Fazzi]

Sorry mate, I have to disagree with you in this case.

The white line defines the edges of the track, and kerbs are not a part of the track. It is the white line on the actual asphalt, before the kerb starts that is the edge of the track.

F1 uses the kerbs as the end of the track.