Cars Toyota 7 (578A)

[Emery]

The earliest blowovers that I'm aware of were at the San Jovite Can Am in 1966, well before Jackie Oliver's flip in 1970. I remember reading John Cannon and someone else both flipped during practice which prompted everyone to hastily install front spoilers. Can't quickly find the reference...

Which is to say I wouldn't mind blowovers as a feature, but they need to happen infrequently.

 

[Joshua Prematta]

Thank you guys for your thoughts and advisories on the matter, I did a little bit more testing to find out what will and will not cause blow overs, and I wanted to get more information to share with you.

As for their occurrences, I have yet to come across an instance where I would have questioned whether or not the car would have blown over. The front end aero starts to generate lift after reaching -5 degrees AOA, which goes from 0CL at -5 deg, to .1CL at -8 deg, and -.25CL at -10 deg. During normal acceleration and default ride height, the front end usually doesn't exceed -1 degree, and it doesn't exceed +/-2 when rocking the car back in forward with the brake and throttle. For extra comparison, I have added the downforce levels comparing the 7 in its current state to the KS 917/30 both at 300kph. If you think the basic aero values for the Toyota need further adjustment, any advice is very much appreciated.

With the lack of overall downforce due to the car being purpose built to dominate Fuji, it happens more often than I would like to, so I am leaning toward removing the feature entirely. I recorded some instances of the aero at work so you guys can gauge your own opinions, and I can make adjustments accordingly, or remove it entirely.

Flugplatz @~260 kph - performing as expected, although I'm not sure whether or not this accurately represents how the car would react.

Gyazo Screen Video

gyazo.com

Kottenbom - Schwedenkreuz @ ~345kph - would most likely have ended up with a blow over. I am not so keen on the wheels 'caving in' on themselves, which happens during every blow over, seemingly triggered by the front reaching a certain angle. This caused the force feedback to be quite nasty upon landing, as you would expect.

Gyazo Screen Video

gyazo.com

917/30 for comparison @ 330kph - to my understanding, this would have resulted in a blow over as well.

Gyazo Screen Video

gyazo.com

 

[Davide Nativo]

I remember reading John Cannon and someone else both flipped during practice which prompted everyone to hastily install front spoilers. Can't quickly find the reference...

It was Hawkins and Dibley, not Cannon

Source: "Can-Am 50th Anniversary" by Levy - Biro

 

[Emery]

HPK Dibley! I was wondering why I kept finding Cannon in the results.

 

[Kyuubeey]

Separate the rear body of the car and the aerofoil if you want high-pitch angle stuff to make more sense. Then you can decouple the underbody of the car from the rear aerofoil.

Much easier to work with if you don't have aeromaps, and if your wing is adjustable, it keeps the behavior a bit more sensible. I do it regardless if the car is ever gonna go beyond 2deg of pitch.

I'm not sure, but I'd reckon these cars just flat-out make some lift at the rear, with the aerofoil cancelling it out greatly.

In higher negative pitch angles, the rear will make increased lift as it begins to act like an aerofoil, and the aerofoil itself will make decreasing negative lift, which might result in more sensible behavior.

 

[defnotjake]

Damn, just now discovering this. I remember this thing from GT4 and GT5. Good luck on your work!

 

[Slymarboro]

How are things going? This is one of the cars that I want to use most on Assetto Corsa. Can't wait. Looks awesome.

 

[Joshua Prematta]

How are things going? This is one of the cars that I want to use most on Assetto Corsa. Can't wait. Looks awesome.

It’s been a whole bunch of waiting, I’ve been trying to get a hold of someone in Japan for reference photos, since the Toyota Museum temporarily has the 7s on display. One guy said he would get photos a few weeks ago, but I haven’t heard from him since. Alongside that, I have been researching and reaching out to the owner and designer of another Can-Am car that I would like to work on next.

The current problem right now is that I had to send my computer away to get a repair. Might be a couple weeks before I’m able to get back to work on either project.

 

[Pasta2000]

It’s been a whole bunch of waiting, I’ve been trying to get a hold of someone in Japan for reference photos, since the Toyota Museum temporarily has the 7s on display. One guy said he would get photos a few weeks ago, but I haven’t heard from him since. Alongside that, I have been researching and reaching out to the owner and designer of another Can-Am car that I would like to work on next.

The current problem right now is that I had to send my computer away to get a repair. Might be a couple weeks before I’m able to get back to work on either project.

I can help. Together with a friend, we've set up a discord based Japanese motorsport history archive with tonnes and tonnes of photo's from pre war to the late 70's. Hook me up if you want to come in, we have a lot of Toyota 7 photo's.

 

[Joshua Prematta]

Hello again, everyone, I hope you are all doing well. I thought it would be a good time to post another update on the Toyota, as I have been very busy over the past few months- whether related to the Toyota or otherwise will be disclosed later. I'll keep this one relatively brief.

As some of you may have noticed, there's now two iterations of the 7 in the works, as the Naturally Aspirated car in it's current form has the 'passenger' seat covered. Additionally, the center section of the front clamshell has been re-done to improve upon the general shape.

Most of the time modelling has been spent on the powertrain. Some details are beginning to take shape, the previously horrible valve cover has been replaced, and countless other improvements have been made. While I am uncertain if this will be carried out, there might be the potential to get someone in Japan to view the 7 while it is still on display in Nagoya for a potential photogrammetry scan to make sure the car is as real to life as possible. (Edit: Sadly, our man in Japan will be unavailable to see the car before it is shipped back into storage on Apr. 11th.)

I must admit, the bulk of my time has been spent outside of the Toyota 7 project. While I have not forgotten about the handful of Chaparrals that I would like to eventually get to, an amazing opportunity has presented itself that I plan to take advantage of in the very near future. Thank you again for all that you guys are doing, and I look forward to sharing these future plans when they are ready to be revealed.

As to what? Only The Shadow knows.

Take care, and until next time!

 

[Neils on Wheels]

Love these cars so that last clue is very exciting.

 

[Ruttman98]

Hello again, everyone, I hope you are all doing well. I thought it would be a good time to post another update on the Toyota, as I have been very busy over the past few months- whether related to the Toyota or otherwise will be disclosed later. I'll keep this one relatively brief.

As some of you may have noticed, there's now two iterations of the 7 in the works, as the Naturally Aspirated car in it's current form has the 'passenger' seat covered. Additionally, the center section of the front clamshell has been re-done to improve upon the general shape.

View attachment 456899View attachment 456900

Most of the time modelling has been spent on the powertrain. Some details are beginning to take shape, the previously horrible valve cover has been replaced, and countless other improvements have been made. While I am uncertain if this will be carried out, there might be the potential to get someone in Japan to view the 7 while it is still on display in Nagoya for a potential photogrammetry scan to make sure the car is as real to life as possible.
View attachment 456901

I must admit, the bulk of my time has been spent outside of the Toyota 7 project. While I have not forgotten about the handful of Chaparrals that I would like to eventually get to, an amazing opportunity has presented itself that I plan to take advantage of in the very near future. Thank you again for all that you guys are doing, and I look forward to sharing these future plans when they are ready to be revealed.

As to what? Only The Shadow knows.

Take care, and until next time!

YoU mean tO keeP us in the dark, so to speak?

 

[Joshua Prematta]

YoU mean tO keeP us in the dark, so to speak?

You may be onto something, but that doesn't mean I have another trick or two up my sleeve.

 

[Ruttman98]

By all means--please start with the original!

 

[Patteedee]

Looks really good so far, can't wait!

 

[Slymarboro]

Any updates on the Toyota 7. One of the last cars i'm really excited for Assetto Corsa.

 

[James Pendry]

Any updates on the Toyota 7. One of the last cars i'm really excited for Assetto Corsa.

Josh has put it on hold for a bit, idk if he's announced what he's working on now, but its pretty cool

 

[Joshua Prematta]

Any updates on the Toyota 7. One of the last cars i'm really excited for Assetto Corsa.

Trust me, I haven’t forgotten about any of these. Currently, I am nearing the closing stages of a paid mod commission that you’ll be hearing about eventually. I do not know whether or not they will want to start another project immediately after this one, but I hope to get back to this, or any of the Shadows when I have spare time again. Thank you all for your patience.

 

[Raymond Racing]

I can't wait to try this car out once it's finally finished. A worthy opponent for the Porsche 917/30 at long last!

 

[Joshua Prematta]

I can't wait to try this car out once it's finally finished. A worthy opponent for the Porsche 917/30 at long last!

Not to get your hopes up, but this thing doesn’t stand a chance against the 917/30. The best lap of mine that I can recall at Mosport was around a 1:19.7. Which would’ve qualified it 6th in 1970. Just a few thousandths faster than Follmer in the Shadow, coincidentally. Mark did a 1:14.1 in the 917/30. It’s known as ‘The car that killed Can-Am’ for a reason. While I may not be the best driver out there, I better hang up my driving gloves if most of that 5.6 second deficit is because of me