Thinking of making the switch to AC

[Steve Worrell]

Hi there.
I have had a 10 year hiatus from sim racing but recently jumped back in. I went with Rfactor2 as I was a massive fan of rf1. I have had quite a bit of fun with rf2 so far but I have made the observation that there seems to be a lot more going on with AC right now. Am I right?

Basically things that are important to me are:
Offline racing/decent AI
wide selection of tracks and cars
career mode - or log analyser like in rf2
Ability to skin cars

Thanks,
Vern

 

[Rob Every]

Let's be honest here, it is not a very good thing to sell the game, I know a few people who played both games and because of the stupid Sony thing about paying to go online, never do so, so only race AI. And they boxed it after a few hours because of the poor AI difficulty thing

 

[Celestiale]

I don't know what you mean by FFB mod. I'm assuming you mean Jack's tweaker files or something like that. Because there is no mod, in the classic sense, that changes the native FFB model, only tweaks that basically just adjust user settings in the control panel.

I have spent countless hours tuning FFB in PCars and have been an active participant and contributor in the stickied FFB tuning thread in the PCars community forum. I understand the FFB system very well, and I've literally tried every single tune from major tuners and people that claim to have the perfect feel. I can tell you this, PCars is not AC when it comes to FFB. In a recent discussion in the forums, the devs admitted that the complaint that a lot of people have about PCars' FFB feeling like the car isn't connected to the road (or frictionless as I liked to call it) is a result of the different approach they took to FFB. They've also said that this has been fixed in PCars2, and that that feeling is gone. That lack of friction is one of the reasons PCars is nothing more than eye candy to me. In comparison to AC, the feel of the FFB is communicative, but lacks the visceral sensation of grip. Admittedly, some people are unconcerned with that. But, for me, it's a deal breaker when it comes to taking the racing experience seriously.

Also, when I said, "unless you're alongside them" I meant to an unrealistic degree. You have to be almost perfectly in their view. I understand race etiquette. But I also watch a lot of racing, and drivers are aware of other drivers coming alongside at varying points. In RL do drivers turn into another car they can plainly see, simply because that car wasn't exactly alongside them? No. The PCars AI is simply to strict about that rule.

"For AI racing though, my first two recommendations are definitely R3E and then Pcars, in that order. Those are the (only) two sims i see worthy to race against AI."

So are you saying that you don't find AC's AI challenging, even when set to 95-100%? Because, in my experience, the timidity of the AI is practically a non issue when you race them at higher difficulty, because you're to busy keep up with and trying to pass the leaders. Unless you're an alien and 100% isn't challenging enough.

I mean JC Spadons, you can download it from here http://www.racedepartment.com/downloads/realfeel-ffb-project-cars-by-jc-spadon.11927/. Those are even better then Jack Spades. With those i think the GT3 feel pretty similar to the GT3 in AC (which i consider amongst the worst FFB from AC). I agree with your general sentiment about the less friction feeling, however those JC Spadon settings cure them to a certain extent. GT3 and LMP feel almost as good as AC..street cars feel like nothing really, and that is where AC shines. I stopped racing steet cars in Pcars.
As for AC - i don't really know what you mean with lacking "visceral sensation of grip". I think the feeling in AC is very grippy to be honest. Some cars like GT3 feel pretty boring, because not too much happening in the wheel (just like in Pcars), but for street cars, old race cars, or Formula cars, i think AC FFB is superb. The car control i have in those is better then in all other sims. Especially how well you feel the road is superb, every slightest bump.

In Pcars there is really no issue when you race "slower" cars, like cup cars or GT classes. I have had 30 hours in those now the last 3 weeks, and not a single time that i got divebombed or corner-cutted by the AI. They acted almost perfect, like you see it on a real race track. However if you get to faster classes like LMP or Formula 1, then the aggressiveness becomes unhealthy, because every slight mistake you make can result into a contact with AI, since they can't avoid you in time. AI didn't turn into my car however, like you stated it. No, didn't happen to me, unless i divebombed them in inside corner. in the GT3 class i think the AI is nearly perfect, best all around. I just stick to those classes where the AI is good, because it's a lot of fun. If i get to a class i see the AI can't cope with, or is to agressive, i just skip it, and have fun in the classes where it is good at. Raceroom has the same problem about overaggressive AI in Formula classes. You'd just have to code two different AI's, one for GT and one for single seater racing. Hopefully they stick to the Club/GT AI from Pcars 1, and code a new better one for the faster cars.

About AC AI, depends what you understand with challenging. They are definitely fast, but they are not "challenging". When i set the AI too high, they just drive away from me in front of me, but the one's behind still don't overtake me. I can assure you that i can drive with 100 AI for 20 laps, and make sure that not a single AI overtakes me. And not with unfair methods, just with proper defending. And that, while even 95 AI is too fast for me. That's not what i call challenging. Pcars or R3E AI is challenging, because they constantly put you under pressure, and try to overtake anytime you make a mistake. In AC they just back off when you retake the racing/inside line. Furthermore, you know that if you are going to make a mistake or break way too early, AI will hit you in R3E or Pcars (just like it would happen in real life), so you have to push all the way, while in AC you can drive a cozy race pace and be safe from behind. That's why i call it an overtake-simulator, and not a racing simulator, when it comes to single player.

 

[Bobby Pennington]

OK thanks for the feedback. Looks like it isn't the sim for me. I might get it at some point to do some hot laps but I really like racing to win. I have never really got on with racing online but maybe I need to explore that too.

I've done the offline thing for years and years and will continue to do so.
I enjoy AC against the AI because I can't beat all the cars on 100% so I always have a challenge to a certain extent. The AI is pretty stupid when it comes to passing ie they won't take advantage of an opening, but if you find a car they are faster in you can always chase them to hone your race craft. Beats chasing your ghost lap all the time.
I just signed up as a premium member last Saturday and have already had a fantastic online experience.
I would encourage you to give AC a second thought and to sign up for a club race in a car/track combo you know really well and just give it a go. I'm slow, but you'll find your way and it's phenomenal.
Very helpful and informative people here. Hope to see you soon.

 

[Haiden773]

I mean JC Spadons, you can download it from here http://www.racedepartment.com/downloads/realfeel-ffb-project-cars-by-jc-spadon.11927/. Those are even better then Jack Spades. With those i think the GT3 feel pretty similar to the GT3 in AC (which i consider amongst the worst FFB from AC). I agree with your general sentiment about the less friction feeling, however those JC Spadon settings cure them to a certain extent. GT3 and LMP feel almost as good as AC..street cars feel like nothing really, and that is where AC shines. I stopped racing steet cars in Pcars.
As for AC - i don't really know what you mean with lacking "visceral sensation of grip". I think the feeling in AC is very grippy to be honest. Some cars like GT3 feel pretty boring, because not too much happening in the wheel (just like in Pcars), but for street cars, old race cars, or Formula cars, i think AC FFB is superb. The car control i have in those is better then in all other sims. Especially how well you feel the road is superb, every slightest bump.

In Pcars there is really no issue when you race "slower" cars, like cup cars or GT classes. I have had 30 hours in those now the last 3 weeks, and not a single time that i got divebombed or corner-cutted by the AI. They acted almost perfect, like you see it on a real race track. However if you get to faster classes like LMP or Formula 1, then the aggressiveness becomes unhealthy, because every slight mistake you make can result into a contact with AI, since they can't avoid you in time. AI didn't turn into my car however, like you stated it. No, didn't happen to me, unless i divebombed them in inside corner. in the GT3 class i think the AI is nearly perfect, best all around. I just stick to those classes where the AI is good, because it's a lot of fun. If i get to a class i see the AI can't cope with, or is to agressive, i just skip it, and have fun in the classes where it is good at. Raceroom has the same problem about overaggressive AI in Formula classes. You'd just have to code two different AI's, one for GT and one for single seater racing. Hopefully they stick to the Club/GT AI from Pcars 1, and code a new better one for the faster cars.

About AC AI, depends what you understand with challenging. They are definitely fast, but they are not "challenging". When i set the AI too high, they just drive away from me in front of me, but the one's behind still don't overtake me. I can assure you that i can drive with 100 AI for 20 laps, and make sure that not a single AI overtakes me. And not with unfair methods, just with proper defending. And that, while even 95 AI is too fast for me. That's not what i call challenging. Pcars or R3E AI is challenging, because they constantly put you under pressure, and try to overtake anytime you make a mistake. In AC they just back off when you retake the racing/inside line. Furthermore, you know that if you are going to make a mistake or break way too early, AI will hit you in R3E or Pcars (just like it would happen in real life), so you have to push all the way, while in AC you can drive a cozy race pace and be safe from behind. That's why i call it an overtake-simulator, and not a racing simulator, when it comes to single player.

I'll give those a shot. At first glance, it looks like he's just taking a different approach with SoP, setting all cars to the same value. But he doesn't sync the Master and SoP scales. That's the first time I've seen that. Almost everyone recommends keeping those two the same, so one doesn't overpower the other.

I agree with you on PCars--the aggression, regarding contact is tolerable, but their corner cutting and offtrack driving is bad. There has to be something in between AC's too timid to pass and PCars anything to win it behavior. If AC could improve their AI behavior, it would really make the SP more interesting.

But, I recently bought and Oculus Rift, and I have to say, it's definitely changed my opinion of PCars vs AC. AC is still the best feeling sim to me. But in VR, PCars' frictionless feeling is less of an issue, because I've got realistic depth perception and a better perspective to view the car rotation's from. So, while AC feels the best, PCars makes up for just about all it's problems in VR with the time and weather transitions. Wow! Driving at twilight or in storm conditions is truly amazing in VR.

With rF2 getting ready to move to DX11, AC is going to have to rethink it's no time and weather transition stance. rF2 feels just as good as AC physics and FFB wise. It's the graphics that make it hard to play. But on DX11, it will look pretty good AND have great FFB and time and weather transitions. If they maintain a decent garage of cars and track selection, I could see rF2 and PCars getting more play time than AC in the future.