Thinking of making the switch to AC

[Steve Worrell]

Hi there.
I have had a 10 year hiatus from sim racing but recently jumped back in. I went with Rfactor2 as I was a massive fan of rf1. I have had quite a bit of fun with rf2 so far but I have made the observation that there seems to be a lot more going on with AC right now. Am I right?

Basically things that are important to me are:
Offline racing/decent AI
wide selection of tracks and cars
career mode - or log analyser like in rf2
Ability to skin cars

Thanks,
Vern

 

[Shadowoff]

Heyy,
Ive got 200 hours in Assetto Corsa now (I know its not a lot but enough to build an opinion). In that time I just had like 5 online races and the other time I just drove offline. Im on almost all tracks quicker than the AI (besides the tracks I never drove) and can say that its actually a lot of fun. I mainly do something like 2 hours mutliclass races (such Daytona with GTD, GTLM, PC and DPI) and never had big issues with the AI. They arent anyway close to perfect but surely good enough for some nice fights. Especially because they arent (like in pCars) super aggressiv and dive down a corner. They are pretty passiv but therefor they make clean overtakes if you drive against them like they would be real humans.

I also dont understand why some people are saying the carreer wouldnt be good. I mean: You can create which carreer you want. You can do stuff like WEC, IMSA, Blancpain and so on. Ofcourse with mods and custom liveries but its doable.

AC is my fav sim currently and I absolutely love it.

 

[St3fan]

Just to add something to the discussion, for custom championships, you can also download custom careers that other people made: http://www.racedepartment.com/downloads/categories/ac-career.60/
Some of these championships make good use of custom skin packs for the real life series, and it's nice to go through these races with AI in recognizable liveries.

There are many things I like in RF2, AMS, and R3E, but the main reason I've been playing AC most of my time is that it is a lot easier to find a MP race in AC, without having to dedicate to a league. AC on simracingsystem.com is very popular, and minorating has made pub servers a lot safer. My spare time is very limited because of work, and I find that the most time-efficient way for me is to check the server browser and see what other people are racing (or check simracingsystem calendar), go offline practice for the same combo, and then join MP sessions when I feel comfortable with the car and track.

Offline racing: to me, racing against AI just doesn't fit the bill any more, no matter how good they are.

This. I couldn't agree more.

 

[MarcG]

The AI in AC doesn't come close to the main boys (yet), it is notoriously hard to code decent AI as if it were easy then every Sim would have fantastic AI...and years ago!
RF2 leads the way with R3E a close 2nd, AMS a bit further back in 3rd, then AC even further back in 4th (the only Sims I've properly engaged AI with in recent years/months). So if you're after Offline Racing then I'd say AC isn't the best choice, but what it lacks in that area it makes up for it in others as every Sim has its good & bad points. Personally I just own them all and enjoy them for what they individually offer me and what I fancy racing/driving at the time, currently it's only AC & R3E due to VR support

 

[Haiden773]

Isn't pcars1 offline career mode just race weekend races like in AC? If you want a more enticing career mode you'd have to look for Gran Turismo games on ps2, ps3. Or at least the Forza series career on xbox and F1 2016 (pc and console) career seems to be good as well.

What type of career mode you'd expect in a racing simulator? There's Custom Championships in AC against the AI drivers, so if you want something more than quick races, this new feature is good for single player.

No. PCars does have full season to season career. In fact, you can actually start in karts and work your way from season to season all the way to Formula A (F1). Downside is, the AI is horrible in PCars. They cut corners, drive on the grass, and more to avoid losing position.

I don't really any problems with the AI in AC when the difficulty is set properly. They can definitely be a little timid sometimes when it comes to passing, but I've had plenty of challenging races with the AI when the difficulty is set right. The default track selection is okay, but there are plenty of good mod tracks available. And you create your own custom championships.

I definitely choose AC or PCars, even with PCars' bells and whistles. PCars1 just has too many issues with it's tire models and AI behavior. AI grip levels aren't affected by track conditions--wet or cold weather. So the weather transitions, while pretty, are useless in terms of the actual SP racing experience.

IMO, if AC doesn't meet your needs, check out R3E. AMS is nice, but it doesn't have surround sound and the graphics aren't quite as good as R3E.

 

[Celestiale]

Downside is, the AI is horrible in PCars. They cut corners, drive on the grass, and more to avoid losing position.

Purely subjective. I think they are very good, very human like. I haven't seen them cut corners once in 80 hours. They drive on grass, yes when they get pushed onto the grass - just like it happens IRL as well. For me the AI in PC is the best after R3E.

I don't really any problems with the AI in AC when the difficulty is set properly. They can definitely be a little timid sometimes when it comes to passing, but I've had plenty of challenging races with the AI when the difficulty is set right.

I think the AI is horrible, because:
I have yet to see an overtake from one AI against another one, when they have cars of similar performance. They don't fight against each other. They still have the "bead chain syndrome" that they line up one after another, without any attempt to gain a position. Against myself, well: No matter how high i set the difficulty, AI never manages to overtake me, when i drive racing line. They pile up behind me, while they drive away in front of me. Only when i go off track or make serious mistakes they manage to get past me. No putting under pressure what so ever.
If you like AI just for the sake of overtaking other cars, you might like AC AI.
If you like AI that really race against each other, and also against you, make "human" mistakes, and make life hard for you, put you under pressure from behind, like real human race drivers, then PCars or R3E AI is for you.

PCars1 just has too many issues with it's tire models and AI behavior. AI grip levels aren't affected by track conditions--wet or cold weather. So the weather transitions, while pretty, are useless in terms of the actual SP racing experience.

That's a lie, pure and simple. Lately i drove a GTO race with the Audi and the other car (some rear-wheel drive, forgot which model). In the beginning it was raining, and the other Audis and me just paced away from the rear-wheel drive cars, but then it stopped raining and was getting dry, and the rear-wheel drive cars caught up more and more, almost catching us before the end of the race...just yesterday i had a GT3 race which started in the evening and lasted till night, and you could see huge differences in speed. Both wet and cold weather affected AI grip levels.
Only thing i think should also be implemented is that AI gets dazed by the sun, just like the player. For a few laps the sun was exactly over the horizon, dazzling me extremely, so i could barely see the apex, and was taking it very cautios. In those situations the AI gained 100m or more at this corner, because they took it just like before. So i guess the vision of the AI doesn't affect their driving in PCars 1. But the surface definitely does.

IMO, if AC doesn't meet your needs, check out R3E.

Agree...especially AI is insanely good in R3E. For offline racing, it's the best.
Just check those videos, you would think that it's an online race on both occasion, AI is that good:

 

[Stereo]

Purely subjective. I think they are very good, very human like. I haven't seen them cut corners once in 80 hours.

I watched like... 40-45 min total of video of PCars on youtube, not created in order to highlight flaws, just normal racing, and saw them consistently (same spot every lap) pulling really boneheaded moves that would have caused crashes if the AI weren't all on next level stability control and willing to cut the course.

 

[Celestiale]

I watched like... 40-45 min total of video of PCars on youtube, not created in order to highlight flaws, just normal racing, and saw them consistently (same spot every lap) pulling really boneheaded moves that would have caused crashes if the AI weren't all on next level stability control and willing to cut the course.

No idea how old those vids are, but in the current build this hasn't happened to me. Since i installed PCars again, i had a few race weekends on different tracks (with GT3, Street Cars, Huayra BC, GTO, tracks were Laguna Seca, Ruapauna, Monza), and haven't noticed anything "buggy" or weird with the AI. They even managed corkscrew masterfully for the full race. Three times in those races i had contact and spun out, but everytime it was my own fault, and would have happened in the same manner online. The spotter mod really helps avoiding crashes most of the time. This last week i had some AI races in Pcars and AC after each other (also to test the latest AC build), and for me PCars is the definite winner in fun factor all things considered. Only talking about AI racing. Hotlapping, driving streets/hillclimb or online AC wins hands down, no question.

 

[Haiden773]

I watched like... 40-45 min total of video of PCars on youtube, not created in order to highlight flaws, just normal racing, and saw them consistently (same spot every lap) pulling really boneheaded moves that would have caused crashes if the AI weren't all on next level stability control and willing to cut the course.

Exactly!

Between console and PC, I've got well over 400 hours in on PCars. Corner cutting is pretty much the norm. Even the devs in the PCars forum will admit this. It's insane. Driving through chicanes and driving on the grass with no grip penalty.

Also, the grip levels being unaffected by overheating and wear is noted and shown in quite a few videos--people being able to set the same lap times regardless of whether the tires are on fire or worn completely down in the telemetry. That's just not right. And the AI will smoke you in the wet, because they aren't hindered, or at least not to a realistic degree. This is also well noted and discussed in the PCars community forum.

I don't deny the AI snaking in AC, though. Like I said, they are often too timid. But I still find it extremely challenging. Racing with the AI set to 95-100, I have to work to qualify in the top half of the grid. And then fight to keep my place and get in the top 5. So, while the AI may have trouble passing each other. They don't see to have any trouble passing me, when there's a gap. The only time I see they behave shyly, is if my speed is considerably lower than their as they approach me.

 

[Celestiale]

. Corner cutting is pretty much the norm.

No idea when you last played the game, but that's just not true in the current build.

Also, the grip levels being unaffected by overheating and wear is noted and shown in quite a few videos--people being able to set the same lap times regardless of whether the tires are on fire or worn completely down in the telemetry.

That's bollocks, in fact PCars is the Sim where i notice tyre wear the most from all current sims..If driving GT3 with soft tyres, and then making a tyre change in the middle of the race, it feels like you are driving a complete different car afterwards..you feel it extremely in the FFB. Driving the Huayra with cold soft tyres feels like driving on ice..car all over the place..after 2 hard laps, they stick to the road like glue - there is a huge difference.

And the AI will smoke you in the wet, because they aren't hindered, or at least not to a realistic degree.

You must be doing something wrong then, because i have no problem racing them in the wet as well.

They don't see to have any trouble passing me, when there's a gap.

If you actively offer them a gap on the racing line they will overtake you. If you don't, which isn't really hard when you are not pushing, they won't. You'll never end up worse then your qualy position, when you drive smart. That's just not what i understand in the term of "racing"

 

[ltcars]

The only time I see they behave shyly, is if my speed is considerably lower than their as they approach me.

That seems to be the Problem in AC to.

 

[St3fan]

No idea when you last played the game, but that's just not true in the current build.

That's bollocks, in fact PCars is the Sim where i notice tyre wear the most from all current sims..If driving GT3 with soft tyres, and then making a tyre change in the middle of the race, it feels like you are driving a complete different car afterwards..you feel it extremely in the FFB. Driving the Huayra with cold soft tyres feels like driving on ice..car all over the place..after 2 hard laps, they stick to the road like glue - there is a huge difference.

You must be doing something wrong then, because i have no problem racing them in the wet as well.

If you actively offer them a gap on the racing line they will overtake you. If you don't, which isn't really hard when you are not pushing, they won't. You'll never end up worse then your qualy position, when you drive smart. That's just not what i understand in the term of "racing"

 

[Haiden773]

No idea when you last played the game, but that's just not true in the current build.

That's bollocks, in fact PCars is the Sim where i notice tyre wear the most from all current sims..If driving GT3 with soft tyres, and then making a tyre change in the middle of the race, it feels like you are driving a complete different car afterwards..you feel it extremely in the FFB. Driving the Huayra with cold soft tyres feels like driving on ice..car all over the place..after 2 hard laps, they stick to the road like glue - there is a huge difference.

You must be doing something wrong then, because i have no problem racing them in the wet as well.

If you actively offer them a gap on the racing line they will overtake you. If you don't, which isn't really hard when you are not pushing, they won't. You'll never end up worse then your qualy position, when you drive smart. That's just not what i understand in the term of "racing"

You're mixing up my comments some referenced AC, other PCars. You seem to be attributing them all to PCars.

Anyway... Like I said. I've got over 400 hours in the game. And there are tons of videos online of people showing those problems. If it works for you. Great! Have at it. I only play it every once and a while these days, and consider it more eye candy than anything. I'll wait for PCars2.

Also... if it were as good as you say. It would have more community support and league play. But it doesn't because a lot of leagues gave up on it.

 

[Haiden773]

That seems to be the Problem in AC to.

Yeah... AC is what I was referring to. In PCars, they're far more aggressive. If you're not well alongside them when you reach the braking zone, they will turn into you.

 

[Haiden773]

I raced the AI in PCars with x3 tire wear in a FA race. Something seemed odd (the AI wasn't pitting, even though my tires were well worn). So I restarted and set the race to 50 laps. 22 laps in, the AI still hadn't pitted for tires. Does that seem right to you? 66 laps on a single set of tires?

And yes. I've played PCars since the last update. They stopped supporting it in the latter half of last year, so if you've played in the last 6 months (roughly), you've played the latest build. The tire model hasn't been changed in even longer.

Here are few (recent) comparison videos. This guy does a good job of showing the differences.

I think he has one that shows him setting near identical lap times in fresh, overheated, and completely worn tires. I just couldn't find it. Might be another reviewer. But the first video does deal with tire temps around the 6:00 min mark.

 

[Celestiale]

You're mixing up my comments some referenced AC, other PCars. You seem to be attributing them all to PCars.

Anyway... Like I said. I've got over 400 hours in the game. And there are tons of videos online of people showing those problems. If it works for you. Great! Have at it. I only play it every once and a while these days, and consider it more eye candy than anything. I'll wait for PCars2.

Also... if it were as good as you say. It would have more community support and league play. But it doesn't because a lot of leagues gave up on it.

No i didn't mix up anything, i think the other poster mixed it up...
For me it is not only eyecandy, but also a lot of fun to race against AI...i use some mods that up the game of about 10% at least though (crew chief and FFB mod that definitely puts it on par with AC).
I have never tried it myself, but i learned that the online mode from Pcars is bugged. I have never bothered to try out, because AC has always been my to-go sim when it comes to online. That's probably why there is not so much league play (there is though, i know numerous sites out of my head that organize league and club racing for Pcars)..

Yeah... AC is what I was referring to. In PCars, they're far more aggressive. If you're not well alongside them when you reach the braking zone, they will turn into you.

So just like it is in real life?

I raced the AI in PCars with x3 tire wear in a FA race. Something seemed odd (the AI wasn't pitting, even though my tires were well worn). So I restarted and set the race to 50 laps. 22 laps in, the AI still hadn't pitted for tires. Does that seem right to you? 66 laps on a single set of tires?

And yes. I've played PCars since the last update. They stopped supporting it in the latter half of last year, so if you've played in the last 6 months (roughly), you've played the latest build. The tire model hasn't been changed in even longer.

Here are few (recent) comparison videos. This guy does a good job of showing the differences.

I think he has one that shows him setting near identical lap times in fresh, overheated, and completely worn tires. I just couldn't find it. Might be another reviewer. But the first video does deal with tire temps around the 6:00 min mark.

It definitely does not seem right, and i often heard that you can adjust things the AI can't cope with - same as it is in every other Sim i have encountered so far, even the Raceroom AI still needs fixing in some areas, that can be exploited (or it exploits you).
I am not a bug hunter however. I just wanna race normally, and set everything normal. Pitstops normal, tyres, fuel, all normal. And when all is normal, the AI behaves normal (a very good "normal"). In all the races i have done in 80 hours with club cars, street cars, GT3 cars and karts, only the superkart AI was bugged. So i rushed through it with 10% races (making career), and having fun since then without encountering any issues..
Tyre wear seems absolutely normal for me, if not a little exxagerated..the difference from worn tyres to new tyres in the FFB is almost a little extreme. Last race, which was my first GT3 race in the career, i spun twice, because the tyres were so bad in the end of my stints, and i just didn't expect it. Both the AI and me set the fastest lap times around 15 minutes after the pit stop, after that the worn tyres had a bigger negative effect, then the less weight had a positive effect..was the same for AI and me. So while i acknowledge that other people encounter oddities in this area, and there may be videos out there that "prove" some errors (i know that some people changed core code from Pcars though, and then made fake videos, only to shade it in a worse light, so i wouldn't interpret any youtube vid as proof for anything), in my game version on my computer all seems right, and i have a lot of fun. That doesn't mean that there aren't sims out there, that makes things in a lot of areas better.
For AI racing though, my first two recommendations are definitely R3E and then Pcars, in that order. Those are the (only) two sims i see worthy to race against AI.
I also use F1 2016 for AI racing, the AI there mostly is also very good and challenging. But you absolutely have to enable rewind function, because sometimes they just divebomb you like mad. One rewind, and act like it never happened. Then you can also have quite some fun with the career mode.

 

[Haiden773]

No i didn't mix up anything, i think the other poster mixed it up...
For me it is not only eyecandy, but also a lot of fun to race against AI...i use some mods that up the game of about 10% at least though (crew chief and FFB mod that definitely puts it on par with AC).
I have never tried it myself, but i learned that the online mode from Pcars is bugged. I have never bothered to try out, because AC has always been my to-go sim when it comes to online. That's probably why there is not so much league play (there is though, i know numerous sites out of my head that organize league and club racing for Pcars)..

So just like it is in real life?

I don't know what you mean by FFB mod. I'm assuming you mean Jack's tweaker files or something like that. Because there is no mod, in the classic sense, that changes the native FFB model, only tweaks that basically just adjust user settings in the control panel.

I have spent countless hours tuning FFB in PCars and have been an active participant and contributor in the stickied FFB tuning thread in the PCars community forum. I understand the FFB system very well, and I've literally tried every single tune from major tuners and people that claim to have the perfect feel. I can tell you this, PCars is not AC when it comes to FFB. In a recent discussion in the forums, the devs admitted that the complaint that a lot of people have about PCars' FFB feeling like the car isn't connected to the road (or frictionless as I liked to call it) is a result of the different approach they took to FFB. They've also said that this has been fixed in PCars2, and that that feeling is gone. That lack of friction is one of the reasons PCars is nothing more than eye candy to me. In comparison to AC, the feel of the FFB is communicative, but lacks the visceral sensation of grip. Admittedly, some people are unconcerned with that. But, for me, it's a deal breaker when it comes to taking the racing experience seriously.

Also, when I said, "unless you're alongside them" I meant to an unrealistic degree. You have to be almost perfectly in their view. I understand race etiquette. But I also watch a lot of racing, and drivers are aware of other drivers coming alongside at varying points. In RL do drivers turn into another car they can plainly see, simply because that car wasn't exactly alongside them? No. The PCars AI is simply to strict about that rule.

"For AI racing though, my first two recommendations are definitely R3E and then Pcars, in that order. Those are the (only) two sims i see worthy to race against AI."

So are you saying that you don't find AC's AI challenging, even when set to 95-100%? Because, in my experience, the timidity of the AI is practically a non issue when you race them at higher difficulty, because you're to busy keep up with and trying to pass the leaders. Unless you're an alien and 100% isn't challenging enough.

 

[Cote Dazur]

They've also said that this has been fixed in PCars2

If they fixed it , and it is a big if, then it will be interesting to see what they come up with for FFB in PCars2 and what the feeling of driving will be like.
My expectation are very low, but I am looking forward to what they will come up with.

Like you, I like AC AI better than, R3E and Pcars, but I also came to the conclusion that at this point in time the best that can be achieved with AI is a compromise and that we all have to choose which compromise we like best.
So I hope each Devs keep coming with different flavor to please us all, until the perfect AI comes along.

 

[Haiden773]

I've got my fingers crossed about PCars2--skeptically optimistic would describe my feelings. Sounds similar to yours.
Right now, I rank my sims as AC, R3E, iRacing, AMS, PCars, then rF2. AMS, would probably be 2nd or 3rd if it had surround sound, but that's a huge ding. rF2 has great physics and feel, but the graphics kill it for me. They're upgrading to DX11 soon, though. If that works out and the existing content gets ported over, it will rival AC.

 

[Rob Every]

THe weird thing about AC is the difficulty slider in my view.

Sometimes on a track it is ridiculously easy to win on a set difficulty, on another track it is 3 or 4 times harder.

My assessment of the AI in AC is that they are broadly fair. If you go insidenthem in the traditional way, they will try and race you hard on the outside and go far later into a bend than they normally would.

My criticism of AI is that often, they will clip you a little on an exit if you are not a car length clear, and that's frustrating

 

[Haiden773]

Yeah...I've noticed the variance in difficulty, too in AC. Some tracks, I'm leading the board by a second or two. Others, I'm struggling to get in the top 10. I've found the same to be true in PCars when playing career. I have to adjust it a bit from track to track. R3E is the only title I have that's more consistent in that area. Maybe AMS, too. Can't really remember.