rF2 *Special Event* FIA WSC Group C - Fuji Film Cup '90 - Fri 30 December 2022 (Including real life race watch-along!)
- Thread starter Ole Marius Myrvold
- Start date
rFactor 2 Racing Club event
so we are watching and racing at the same time?? carnage!!
Well, thats up to everyone. Watchalong starts at 1900, lasts for 50min
So that will be finished before the "official" practice starts.
Michael Rudolf
Premium
The Porsche has different options for tyres, rear wing (long / short) and engine (IMSA / WSC), does any of this make any difference driving wise or is that just a visual thing?
There are differences. Go for the WSC engine
Aerodynamics can be set for high speed tracks or high downforce tracks changing the front wing setting to “Low” (downforce and drag) or “High” (downforce and drag). The rear wing works as a balancer of the front wing, because most of the downforce comes from the ground effect's tunnel below the car. The recommended setting for high speed tracks (Le Mans and Daytona) is “Low” and “0 deg”, while for high downforce tracks is “High” and “9 deg” (or more).
Tyres were thought around warming, not only wear and grip as main target. The R500/Sprint warms more than the others by only rolling, so this compound is good for tracks with long straights with few sections of corners. This tyre maintain the heat better for the next corner, and fit tracks like Sebring, Le Mans, Road America, but at some tracks like Interlagos or Estoril they can't cool down fast enough. The R600/Enduro compound is harder and resist better the long period of cornering. It warms less on the straights, so isn't so good at Le Mans or Sebring where they need some laps to warm up to operational temp.
All the tyres have an operational pressure around 165-170 kpa, and they take 3 to 5 laps to reach the highest pressure. So check the pressure after some test laps to set the cold pressure at the garage. The car jump and move to the sides until the tyres reach higher pressure.
- Goodyear R500 = Dunlop Sprint => (the softer compound)
- Goodyear R600 = Dunlop Enduro => (the hardest compound)
- Yokohama, this brand have an unique compound, the rear rim have a bigger diameter (19"
instead 18") than the other brands. It is a hard compound with slow heating and very stable. It will last longer than the others tyres if it’s used into their thermal window. Excellent for long runs with medium boost.
Rain tyres works well below 80C. This compound could be used while the track remains 60% wet, then it overheat easily.
Engines(Mazda and Porsche) have a 90000 seconds life (25 hours). Oil temp affects the health of the engines making
run the life counter faster or slower. Running the engine with 95C of oil temp is safe for 24 hs, running at 100C is risky but possible, but over 105C can't be assured to reach the finish line.
Running the engine over the rev limiter while upshifting or while downshifting reduce the engine life.
Sauber Engine:
10 turbo positions are available on the simulation, with the most conservative already offering
730hp and pushing hard from a very low 3500rpm. At the highest turbo settings more than 900hp
explode at the wheel, but abuse will overheat the engine and harm tyres prematurely.
Max. recommended rpm: 7000-7200rpm (at 7200rpm engine life is halved) Recommended radiator setting: 5 (Endurance)
Recommended oil temperature range: 112 – 123ºC (at 123ºC life is halved) Recommended boost position: Long endurance: 3 Endurance: 6 Qualifying: 9 Recommended mixture map use:
Lean (rain/save fuel): 1
Rich (maximum power): 2
Recommended engine brake setting:
Short braking distance : 1
Keep corner speed: 4
A bit more of a technical post here, as this mod is complex (and great), while I don't have too much to do atm. *Long Post Warning* Graphs and data based on the Sauber. Numbers might differ slightly for other cars, but how it works is the same for all. E.G aero balance might be a tiny bit different on the Porsche and Mazda, but the effects explained are the same. See post above for specific engine-information for Porsche and Mazda.
Tyres: (Remember that RS500 = Dunlop Sprint and RS600 = Dunlop Enduro & Yokohamas are harder than RS600, but last longer)
Optimal Temperatures for the different compounds are:
RS500: 100c. RS600: 103c. Inters: 78c and Wets: 58c.
NOTE: Grip is on a dry track and tyre relative.
"Thermal Degradation" - when tyre wear starts to happen due to temperatures and not just abrasiveness and cornering:
RS500: 109c. RS600: 106c. Inters: 104c and Wets: 100c.
Wet tyres:
(The graph does show temperatures in wetness. So on a track with little to no rain, Inters and wets will by default overheat, while RS500 will underheat quite quickly as well, RS600 will cool off quicker, same with Yokohamas).
-Tyre characteristics and recommendations:
Tyres are very sensitive to slip angle. This means using excessive steering angles may induce quick overheating on tyres surface, losing grip prematurely while cornering. Sliding and going sideways may harm rear tyres.
Tyres are also sensitive to load and speed.
They are not so effective at the fastest corners, where sliding speed is higher and downforce increases tyre deformation, so they lose grip and suffer faster overheating and wear.
Soft compounds are more sensitive to load, so probably you will notice that they are much more grippy than hard compounds at low speed corners, but grip difference is not so big at high speed corners.
Different compounds need different driving style according to their temperature characteristics.
Soft compounds are not very efficient when overheated, while hard compounds are not efficient when cold. Probably hard compounds admit a more aggressive style, which helps to reach optimum temperatures, while soft compounds need to be gentle to not exceed them.
Chosen tyre compound must fit with ambient conditions and required task. Soft tyres fit better with low fuel loads, high turbo positions and more oversteering chassis.
These are the typical conditions on short race stints and qualifying laps. It’s not recommended to use soft tyres with high fuel loads, very hot ambient temperatures, etc,... In the other hand, it is not recommended to use hard tyres with highest turbo positions.
Never use rain tyres in a dry track. They will overheat and wear quickly, making impossible to drive safely. When track is drying after the rain, use wetness left on the straights to refrigerate your rain tyres. Also, do not use slick tyres in the wet since they are easily affected by aquaplanning.
Aerodynamics!
As you can see - the Front/Rear balance of the car, or, feeling of pointy, understeering, oversteering car does change with added downforce, even if wing-levels stay the same relative to each other.
As a start point, it is recommended to use same number for both downforce settings. Examples >>> Interlagos: front=6, rear=6 ; Monza: 4-4 ; Le Mans 1991: 3-3. Se first Aero-graph with front/rear balance for reasoning behind this. Only run different wing settings as the last setup change for fine tuning balance.
Ride Height:
How to choose best ride height, from aerodynamics point of view?
Ride height is dynamic, it changes all the time while driving due to different forces acting on the chassis. You should choose a static ride height that goes in favour of the optimum instant ride height on corners and straights of each track.
‘Static ride height’: Ride height setting. It is set on garage.
‘Instant ride height’: Actual ride height while driving.
Normally, Instant ride height is lower than static, because of aerodynamic downforce. Rake is the difference between rear and front ride height.
Rake is positive when rear is higher than front. Rake is negative when rear is lower than front.
‘Rake’ = ‘Rear ride height’ – ‘Front ride height’
VERY Detailed, complicated Ride Height Stuff:
This confirms that:
- The lower is the car, the less aerodynamic drag there is.
- Drag also decreases when both front and rear heights are the same.
That is: Rake generates extra drag, especially negative rake.
At the straights, rear height tends to go lower than front due to strong rear downforce. Use hard rear springs and/or increase rear height setting to avoid negative rake and speed loss.
Avoid using too soft rear springs in combination with low rear ride heights.
A change of +-1cm in rear height can make you lose 5kph of top speed.
As a conclusion, we recommend the following static ride height to obtain a balanced setup:
Recommended front static ride height setting: 45-50mm
Recommended rear static ride height setting: 60-70mm
Do note that if you lower the car too much, the car will bottom out, which will lose speed, but also cause a loss of downforce.
Brakes:
Driving Recommendations:
- Caution! This is a 900HP machine. It is strongly recommended to carefully regulate throttle pedal when approaching corner exit, especially on low speed corners. It is possible to slide and to make opposite lock while using a portion of throttle, but never use full throttle until the car is firmly stabilized.
Highest turbo positions are only recommended when riding new qualifying tyres or very good track conditions. Listen to turbo sound so that you know when the power is coming.
When track is very wet, use ‘Rain’ engine mixture.
- Going sideways at high speed is not recommended.
Severe grip loss can occur when trying to drift at higher speeds than 180kph.
- Stay on track limits, avoid driving over kerbs. Suspension travel is short and springs are usually very hard, so they don’t cope well with irregularities.
- After exiting pit lane or caution laps, brakes and tyres are usually cold.
Avoid aggressive driving and late braking until car elements reach optimum work temperatures. Brakes can heat up after a pair of corners, but tyres may need rolling for two or more laps, depending on track and compound.
- Car settings should take in account fuel consumption and tyre wear.
Car performance will change after some laps, so risky setups which are fast on new tyres can be dangerous for a long stint.
Remember that car weight, balance and grip will change.
For the race, choose tyre compounds which last longer in good state, and this applies also to rain tyres.
Tyres: (Remember that RS500 = Dunlop Sprint and RS600 = Dunlop Enduro & Yokohamas are harder than RS600, but last longer)
Optimal Temperatures for the different compounds are:
RS500: 100c. RS600: 103c. Inters: 78c and Wets: 58c.
NOTE: Grip is on a dry track and tyre relative.
"Thermal Degradation" - when tyre wear starts to happen due to temperatures and not just abrasiveness and cornering:
RS500: 109c. RS600: 106c. Inters: 104c and Wets: 100c.
Wet tyres:
(The graph does show temperatures in wetness. So on a track with little to no rain, Inters and wets will by default overheat, while RS500 will underheat quite quickly as well, RS600 will cool off quicker, same with Yokohamas).
-Tyre characteristics and recommendations:
Tyres are very sensitive to slip angle. This means using excessive steering angles may induce quick overheating on tyres surface, losing grip prematurely while cornering. Sliding and going sideways may harm rear tyres.
Tyres are also sensitive to load and speed.
They are not so effective at the fastest corners, where sliding speed is higher and downforce increases tyre deformation, so they lose grip and suffer faster overheating and wear.
Soft compounds are more sensitive to load, so probably you will notice that they are much more grippy than hard compounds at low speed corners, but grip difference is not so big at high speed corners.
Different compounds need different driving style according to their temperature characteristics.
Soft compounds are not very efficient when overheated, while hard compounds are not efficient when cold. Probably hard compounds admit a more aggressive style, which helps to reach optimum temperatures, while soft compounds need to be gentle to not exceed them.
Chosen tyre compound must fit with ambient conditions and required task. Soft tyres fit better with low fuel loads, high turbo positions and more oversteering chassis.
These are the typical conditions on short race stints and qualifying laps. It’s not recommended to use soft tyres with high fuel loads, very hot ambient temperatures, etc,... In the other hand, it is not recommended to use hard tyres with highest turbo positions.
Never use rain tyres in a dry track. They will overheat and wear quickly, making impossible to drive safely. When track is drying after the rain, use wetness left on the straights to refrigerate your rain tyres. Also, do not use slick tyres in the wet since they are easily affected by aquaplanning.
Aerodynamics!
As you can see - the Front/Rear balance of the car, or, feeling of pointy, understeering, oversteering car does change with added downforce, even if wing-levels stay the same relative to each other.
As a start point, it is recommended to use same number for both downforce settings. Examples >>> Interlagos: front=6, rear=6 ; Monza: 4-4 ; Le Mans 1991: 3-3. Se first Aero-graph with front/rear balance for reasoning behind this. Only run different wing settings as the last setup change for fine tuning balance.
Ride Height:
How to choose best ride height, from aerodynamics point of view?
Ride height is dynamic, it changes all the time while driving due to different forces acting on the chassis. You should choose a static ride height that goes in favour of the optimum instant ride height on corners and straights of each track.
‘Static ride height’: Ride height setting. It is set on garage.
‘Instant ride height’: Actual ride height while driving.
Normally, Instant ride height is lower than static, because of aerodynamic downforce. Rake is the difference between rear and front ride height.
Rake is positive when rear is higher than front. Rake is negative when rear is lower than front.
‘Rake’ = ‘Rear ride height’ – ‘Front ride height’
VERY Detailed, complicated Ride Height Stuff:
This confirms that:
- The lower is the car, the less aerodynamic drag there is.
- Drag also decreases when both front and rear heights are the same.
That is: Rake generates extra drag, especially negative rake.
At the straights, rear height tends to go lower than front due to strong rear downforce. Use hard rear springs and/or increase rear height setting to avoid negative rake and speed loss.
Avoid using too soft rear springs in combination with low rear ride heights.
A change of +-1cm in rear height can make you lose 5kph of top speed.
As a conclusion, we recommend the following static ride height to obtain a balanced setup:
Recommended front static ride height setting: 45-50mm
Recommended rear static ride height setting: 60-70mm
Do note that if you lower the car too much, the car will bottom out, which will lose speed, but also cause a loss of downforce.
Brakes:
Driving Recommendations:
- Caution! This is a 900HP machine. It is strongly recommended to carefully regulate throttle pedal when approaching corner exit, especially on low speed corners. It is possible to slide and to make opposite lock while using a portion of throttle, but never use full throttle until the car is firmly stabilized.
Highest turbo positions are only recommended when riding new qualifying tyres or very good track conditions. Listen to turbo sound so that you know when the power is coming.
When track is very wet, use ‘Rain’ engine mixture.
- Going sideways at high speed is not recommended.
Severe grip loss can occur when trying to drift at higher speeds than 180kph.
- Stay on track limits, avoid driving over kerbs. Suspension travel is short and springs are usually very hard, so they don’t cope well with irregularities.
- After exiting pit lane or caution laps, brakes and tyres are usually cold.
Avoid aggressive driving and late braking until car elements reach optimum work temperatures. Brakes can heat up after a pair of corners, but tyres may need rolling for two or more laps, depending on track and compound.
- Car settings should take in account fuel consumption and tyre wear.
Car performance will change after some laps, so risky setups which are fast on new tyres can be dangerous for a long stint.
Remember that car weight, balance and grip will change.
For the race, choose tyre compounds which last longer in good state, and this applies also to rain tyres.
So... With all the information in the two posts above, it probably causes a question:
Which car is best for me?
The Mazda with just one brand of tyres, a narrow fuel consumption options and good handling it's a great and safe choice for the race.
On the Porsche's side, you have different options. You could use soft Goodyear tyres and a higher turbo pressure to go as fast as you can, but bear in mind that tyres will last less, and stints will be shorter due to the amount of fuel needed.
A more conservative choice could be to use Yokohama tyres with a lower turbo pressure to have a less challenging car to drive. This way you could make longer stints with shorter pit stops due to capability to double stint the tyres, putting the focus on the consistency.
The C11 is heavier, it doesn’t turn in so fast on twisty circuits. But it has good traction and lots of power to reach high speeds. All cars have the same chance to fight for wins, it all depends on the driver to choose the right combination that matches their driving style to get the best performance from the chosen car.
Pit Stop Time: Tyres take 20 seconds to be changed and is the only action with a separated time. Fuel takes 1 second per litre (100 seconds for the entire tank). All the other actions are shared with the fuel time (driver change, repairs, settings changes). The amount of time that appears as fuel time, is the total time for the pit stop.
And to end all this technical stuff, a fun fact is that Oscar Laurarri a WSC round winner, Le Mans podium finisher and former F1 driver have been the go-to guy for Mak-Corp when making the mod.
Which car is best for me?
The Mazda with just one brand of tyres, a narrow fuel consumption options and good handling it's a great and safe choice for the race.
On the Porsche's side, you have different options. You could use soft Goodyear tyres and a higher turbo pressure to go as fast as you can, but bear in mind that tyres will last less, and stints will be shorter due to the amount of fuel needed.
A more conservative choice could be to use Yokohama tyres with a lower turbo pressure to have a less challenging car to drive. This way you could make longer stints with shorter pit stops due to capability to double stint the tyres, putting the focus on the consistency.
The C11 is heavier, it doesn’t turn in so fast on twisty circuits. But it has good traction and lots of power to reach high speeds. All cars have the same chance to fight for wins, it all depends on the driver to choose the right combination that matches their driving style to get the best performance from the chosen car.
Pit Stop Time: Tyres take 20 seconds to be changed and is the only action with a separated time. Fuel takes 1 second per litre (100 seconds for the entire tank). All the other actions are shared with the fuel time (driver change, repairs, settings changes). The amount of time that appears as fuel time, is the total time for the pit stop.
And to end all this technical stuff, a fun fact is that Oscar Laurarri a WSC round winner, Le Mans podium finisher and former F1 driver have been the go-to guy for Mak-Corp when making the mod.
To finish off the technical posts. It might look very intimidating, complex, high-tech and a bit "but I don't understand or care about half of it, are there any point in my doing this?".
The answer is YES.
When we drove these cars at Monza a little while ago, I was among the fastest, both in qual and race-trim. I drove pretty much a default setup, just changing the wing, gearing and brakes to make it fit my driving style.
You can follow all the techy techy bits, but how you drive is often much more influential than a little setup change
The answer is YES.
When we drove these cars at Monza a little while ago, I was among the fastest, both in qual and race-trim. I drove pretty much a default setup, just changing the wing, gearing and brakes to make it fit my driving style.
You can follow all the techy techy bits, but how you drive is often much more influential than a little setup change
Special Events should be a bit special
Last year I spent hours testing every car!EDIT: Spent hours testing the cars we used then, not the same as now
It's just a shame these ones don't have those OP quali tyres that the Lancia had. Those were so much fun. 2 seconds a lap around frigging Norisring!Special Events should be a bit special
EDIT: Spent hours testing the cars we used then, not the same as now
Haha. It's almost so I wonder if it would be hard to keep those tyres alive for a full lap at Suzuka. They could easily be well worn into 130R.
On the other hand, it's good that they don't. Although, if anyone chooses the Yokohamas because that suits the racing style and strategy, then they have no "soft for qual" tyres at all.
Michael Rudolf
Premium
Thanks for all the info, can't wait to try these cars, still feeling like crap though, not sure I'll be able to race yet
So that means these are not the usual rF2 lowest pressure = fastest, you actually have to care about pressures?
Last edited:
Merry Christmas/happy Yuletide/Happy Hanukkah!!
But before there's a happy new year, what's better than racing some awesome cars on a great track, with proper real life background? Not much, eh?
@Jim Carvalho @Stig Bidstrup @SimApprentice21 @Redvaliant @Jack Smith @max1966i @Stephen Gibb @pattikins @Luca Ciarfella @Paul_V @PurgerUK @Yves Larose @Steve Le Gallez @Ingemar Petersson @Jasje @Magnus Dahlgren @Herlev @Michel vL @Stammeleer @SwannyUK @groy1980 @VictorIS @Lesley Buurlage @Cosimo @GeekyDeaks @Kamran Khan @Kresh @Monkey T. @Dean Maković @David Steinacher @ThreeLionz @Alasdair Lecky @Maciej Strzeboński @xoSx.Racing @Riky_Sim @Rich Green @CaptainLykaios @Andu1983 @Peter Stokman @Ronny van Rooij @Paul Le Gallez @Paul Le Messurier @Chark @Snoolbrunch @iMentrix @Sára Mühlfeitová @Andyt68 @nevermike @Stan Sokol @Marcin Morel @wayphaxx @Xalfy @Ruben Cerlem @Oliver Bunz @Skid Solo @Reiche @karan733
WoopWoop!
But before there's a happy new year, what's better than racing some awesome cars on a great track, with proper real life background? Not much, eh?
@Jim Carvalho @Stig Bidstrup @SimApprentice21 @Redvaliant @Jack Smith @max1966i @Stephen Gibb @pattikins @Luca Ciarfella @Paul_V @PurgerUK @Yves Larose @Steve Le Gallez @Ingemar Petersson @Jasje @Magnus Dahlgren @Herlev @Michel vL @Stammeleer @SwannyUK @groy1980 @VictorIS @Lesley Buurlage @Cosimo @GeekyDeaks @Kamran Khan @Kresh @Monkey T. @Dean Maković @David Steinacher @ThreeLionz @Alasdair Lecky @Maciej Strzeboński @xoSx.Racing @Riky_Sim @Rich Green @CaptainLykaios @Andu1983 @Peter Stokman @Ronny van Rooij @Paul Le Gallez @Paul Le Messurier @Chark @Snoolbrunch @iMentrix @Sára Mühlfeitová @Andyt68 @nevermike @Stan Sokol @Marcin Morel @wayphaxx @Xalfy @Ruben Cerlem @Oliver Bunz @Skid Solo @Reiche @karan733
WoopWoop!
Low pressure = more grip. But should mean more moving around and thus higher temps.
This is from the readme/tech sheet for the mod. I must admit, I don't understand it
It is probably worth a test though.
Also. The optimum pressure might be reached by having the lowest possible in garage. The pressure mentioned are on track, after heating.
ThreeLionz
Premium
Unfortunately can't make it got a new years poker night on that day
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