PC2 Sim Discussion Monday - Project CARS 2

[Paul Jeffrey]

First day back in the office for many this morning, what better way to pass the time than have a good discussion about the new Project CARS game?

Now the dust is beginning to settle around the recent release of Project CARS 2, we thought it a good time to look deeper into the game, driven by our community, and share our findings and impressions from the heavily hyped new racing title from Slightly Mad Studios.

Do you have some useful tips for getting the most from the sim? Found a magic setting to really unlock the FFB? Got a trick up your sleeve that helps bring sharper graphics for little FPS trade off? Or do you simply want to share your most / least favourite car and track combinations?

So long as it remains on topic, respectful and mature, we want to know your thoughts!

Mondays be like...

 

[Copef1]

This thread going to be an interesting read...It appears like Codemasters this studio does not worry about releasing titles that are not properly tested or actually fully ready for release. Is it too broad in content or types of racing for its own good and less but to a higher standard would of been better?

Perhaps can we have a poll added to this thread with some questions based around......

1) Excited and want to buy it or already have bought it
2) Will not buy until they patch or fix major issues
3) Disappointed had the feeling it would be like this not surprised and will not buy
4) If the VR is good I will look past some other issues

Why just single out Codemasters? ISI released rFactor2 in such a sad shape that it was almost unplayable. It looked terrible, had tons of bugs, and ran terrible on even the most high end of computers. Not to mention it took ISI years of patching, to fix it, and then handing it off to Sector 3, to get it where it is at now. Then of course there is raceroom, which launched with atrocious physics, and took a year of patching, and a change in direction by the developer, to get it to the state it is in now. Lets not forget Assetto Corsa, which had some of the worst AI ever seen in a sim, until earlier this year when they finally fixed it for the most part. Pcars2 has only been out a few days, and if you ask me, its in as good, if not much better shape than any of those. Isn't releasing half baked sims what developers do these days? The days of GTR2 releasing in great shape, and only requiring one patch, are a thing of the past.

 

[Acke Rosa]

Boo hoo

Yeah because I was just whining so much.
Typical highbrow comeback from WMD fanboy.
Normal person: "This is unfinished I'm getting my money back."
WMD'er: "Counterpoint, you're a stupid whiny mental defective!"

 

[kondor999]

The more I play PC2, the more impressed I am. It generates more memorable moments per hour than any racing game I've ever played. Doing a multi-class race at Le Mans, with accelerated time, multiple weather situations - followed by night, is simply incredible. You can't do this sort of thing in any other game.

You do have to take it easy the first couple of corners and not drive like a homicidal maniac, but otherwise the AI actually seems OK. There's certainly nothing huge to complain about, and it seems like they've already solved the whole multi-class issue where significantly faster cars get balked by slower ones. AMS has yet to figure this out, and they've had years to do it.

I do wish there was an in-game boost control, and whenever any car has its boost near maximum, it generates this incredibly annoying "servo" noise that sounds like when a plane extends its spoilers at landing. It's bad enough to make me keep the boost turned down.

Everyone should get the Jack Spade FFB files. They make a tremendous difference.

 

[John Addison]

6 hours in now and Im on board. I like it a lot. Just have a bunch of annoyances like you never really know if the setup you just changed has taken..... the save setup is weird not sure if its working as intended. And things that have been fine and that I set on day one in the settings are changed and I didn't change them. Like the virtual mirror come and goes?? and my cockpit driving view is now changed and I cant find how to change it back?? I can flip thru the driving views via KB but how did it change and were did the tab to set it go?? These and other strange things are a miss.

But give the team some slack Im sure they will sort it out. I mean we should expect a lot for 89.00 US.

 

[William Wester]

Assetto Corsa Love it!
rFactor 2 Love it!
Raceroom Love it!
AMS Love it!

Welcome Project Cars 2, you are more than welcome to sit in my "Sim Racing" library

Now there's a sensible guy! They're all fun right

 

[Mr Latte]

Why just single out Codemasters? ISI released rFactor2 in such a sad shape that it was almost unplayable. It looked terrible, had tons of bugs, and ran terrible on even the most high end of computers. Not to mention it took ISI years of patching, to fix it, and then handing it off to Sector 3, to get it where it is at now. Then of course there is raceroom, which launched with atrocious physics, and took a year of patching, and a change in direction by the developer, to get it to the state it is in now. Lets not forget Assetto Corsa, which had some of the worst AI ever seen in a sim, until earlier this year when they finally fixed it for the most part. Pcars2 has only been out a few days, and if you ask me, its in as good, if not much better shape than any of those. Isn't releasing half baked sims what developers do these days? The days of GTR2 releasing in great shape, and only requiring one patch, are a thing of the past.

I used Codemasters as an example as they also release their titles across multi-platforms. Its very frustrating waiting so long for these titles and when they release that they have often many issues.

I do however have to admit the biggest draw of this title for me is when seeing videos like this and it running in VR. It may be broken as a game or have issues but it does seem to have its moments.

 

[William Wester]

Is anyone playing on xbox? I get the sense we are talking about two different games. Being so hardware intensive, and being as horrendous (too long a list to go into here,but start with the A.I. making it unplayable and ovals being un-raceable with no cautions) as it is, on console, I suspect it's a sheer money grab, similar to Kunos. At least with Forza (and now Assetto) you can play in a lobby without knowing your race will end prematurely.

You do make a point that I believe is the core issue with PC2 and AC on the console, hardware intensive games. There is only so much processing power, something has to give. Both PC2 and AC run very well on a decent computer - I don't run AC/PC2 on my X1 but from what I'm hearing to seems most issues are on the consoles (PC versions aren't perfect). If the 4 cores on my i7 @ 4GHz are close to maxed out, and my 16GB GTX 1070 is pushing hard to provide the graphic fidelity I'm looking for what is the experience going to be on a console.
I have run the Forza 7 demo on both my PC and X1, looks much better on my computer even though I have a 4K/HDR television for my X1.
With that said, Kunos and SMS are "trying" to create a game that runs on PC's and consoles, I'll give them credit for trying. There's a hardware demand for their physics engines - T10 I believe has to simplifying things to provide such a nice looking and good performing game on the console.

 

[Rob]

You do make a point that I believe is the core issue with PC2 and AC on the console, hardware intensive games. There is only so much processing power, something has to give. Both PC2 and AC run very well on a decent computer - I don't run AC/PC2 on my X1 but from what I'm hearing to seems most issues are on the consoles (PC versions aren't perfect). If the 4 cores on my i7 @ 4GHz are close to maxed out, and my 16GB GTX 1070 is pushing hard to provide the graphic fidelity I'm looking for what is the experience going to be on a console.
I have run the Forza 7 demo on both my PC and X1, looks much better on my computer even though I have a 4K/HDR television for my X1.
With that said, Kunos and SMS are "trying" to create a game that runs on PC's and consoles, I'll give them credit for trying. There's a hardware demand for their physics engines - T10 I believe has to simplifying things to provide such a nice looking and good performing game on the console.

I agree, but I don't have PC access like you. In essence, I believe if you are going to run on both platforms, you shouldn't overreach on one, but it seems there is a dichotomy being setup here, which makes it hard to predict for the end user. They want the respect of PC users, and the money of the console users, and will say anything claim they have both before the release date.

For instance, the DiRT experience didn't change much for me, from Rally to 4. And Forza has always been without a physics engine, with Project Cars never getting there, despite 1000 patches. I can only hope they patch the game into play-ability, but, like the last one, they have a long way to go. Assetto remains the only game to nail the physics, but has other problems. Codies made another decision (beautiful and stable now on the console, rich in features, but only slowly ramping up the physics). I can respect that.

It's hard to imagine how SMS actually went backwards (A.I. are a disaster, physics are better, but compromised, and now, not fixable by cracking the code, ovals might as well not be in there, because you can't race on them, might as well play Forza. FPS is completely random, setup are now only one per track, the HUD is not editable (and a mess), and there is no multiplayer option, best I can tell, unless you want to crash to dash). So, it's actually worse than Assetto upon release.

This is a boardroom decision, in essence. You can either compromise one way or the other, hope your user base gets a Christmas upgrade, or try to do it all and hope console users will either not notice or move on. It's an insult to their hardest core fans (what few are left on the console). It's a complete failure of leadership and, once again, the truth is never told beforehand. I guess xbox users will either have to get a refund or get a PC. If software peddlers want respect, then they should at least be honest, instead of clearly over-selling.

 

[Pol Schmukler]

Really well-done nuanced and detailed torque steer in the Clio and Civic Type R. The more cars I try the more impressed I am with this product. The feeling of some of the cars plowing through fresh snow and fighting a progressively colder tarmac is formidable.

 

[ronniej]

Isn't releasing half baked sims what developers do these days? The days of GTR2 releasing in great shape, and only requiring one patch, are a thing of the past.

Yes, but why? I really need to conform with this logic? It's the reason I refunded Pcars2.

I guess xbox users will either have to get a refund or get a PC. If software peddlers want respect, then they should at least be honest, instead of clearly over-selling.

Having a PC isn't always a safegaurd, and cash is king so it's hard to find the "respectable" types. As far as needing more power for physics calculations, I was rather hoping the newer 6,8,10,12,16 core cpu's were going to help, but guess we will have to wait longer.....

I do however have to admit the biggest draw of this title for me is when seeing videos like this and it running in VR. It may be broken as a game or have issues but it does seem to have its moments.

Cool vid to be sure, but still, there is no way they could stick to the road while bouncing off runners on a wet track like that with so many sharp bumps and valleys in the road at that speed....I have a hard time with suspending disbelief in my old age....

Everyone should get the Jack Spade FFB files. They make a tremendous difference.

This really gets to me, needing some random user's own recipe for a second title in a row in order to have a better experience

 

[William Wester]

I agree, but I don't have PC access like you. In essence, I believe if you are going to run on both platforms, you shouldn't overreach on one, but it seems there is a dichotomy being setup here, which makes it hard to predict for the end user. They want the respect of PC users, and the money of the console users, and will say anything claim they have both before the release date.

For instance, the DiRT experience didn't change much for me, from Rally to 4. And Forza has always been without a physics engine, with Project Cars never getting there, despite 1000 patches. I can only hope they patch the game into play-ability, but, like the last one, they have a long way to go. Assetto remains the only game to nail the physics, but has other problems. Codies made another decision (beautiful and stable now on the console, rich in features, but only slowly ramping up the physics). I can respect that.

It's hard to imagine how SMS actually went backwards (A.I. are a disaster, physics are better, but compromised, and now, not fixable by cracking the code, ovals might as well not be in there, because you can't race on them, might as well play Forza. FPS is completely random, setup are now only one per track, the HUD is not editable (and a mess), and there is no multiplayer option, best I can tell, unless you want to crash to dash). So, it's actually worse than Assetto upon release.

This is a boardroom decision, in essence. You can either compromise one way or the other, hope your user base gets a Christmas upgrade, or try to do it all and hope console users will either not notice or move on. It's an insult to their hardest core fans (what few are left on the console). It's a complete failure of leadership and, once again, the truth is never told beforehand. I guess xbox users will either have to get a refund or get a PC. If software peddlers want respect, then they should at least be honest, instead of clearly over-selling.

I hear ya, maybe an Xbox One X will be the answer for some of these newer "sim type" games. I realize that's easier said than done $$$. With that said, it isn't really that much different for us long time PC guys. Newer software puts additional demand on hardware pushing us to upgrade our hardware so we can run with all the eye candy. SMS could have held off on releasing a console version for a year or two to let the hardware catch up but in the end I think many console users are happy (forums - some yay some nay) with the opportunity for today - of course many like yourself are not satisfied. Then again maybe in a few months we wouldn't be having this conversation - bug fixes/tweaks may solve "some" of the functional and performance issues.

 

[Shuffyuk]

love it more than ac and thats saying a lot !

 

[BazzaLB]

Having read all the comments, I am left to conclude that PC2 is nothing but a crap simcade with some brilliantly believable new physics modelling that puts it right up there with other dedicated sims. The VR is incredible with extremely laggy and pixelated graphics!

In other words.... I am none the wiser

 

[ronniej]

love it more than ac and thats saying a lot !

This smells like a trap

 

[snyperal]

For me it showcases just how far behind the competition is. Graphically, features, disciplines, content, licenses there's a whole buffet to tuck into. Good job SMS, you've raised the bar.

*still only played it for a little while, and that is only scratching the surface, but I do like what I see. Running the ginetta's, the silverstone event where rain came in and pooled has been the highlight so far.

 

[Jdizzy42]

So this thread has made for a long read. I might as well add my thoughts and opinions. This is all based on about 7 hours of play so far.

And sorry this is probably going to get long winded.

FFB - So ffb is very subjective. Everyone has their own prefence's as to how they like the ffb to feel, so I'm not going to say here that it's the best ever. However I feel it is vastly improved over PC1. Much simpler to set up and out of the box much better feeling, though there were some issues. I could not get good bump/curb feeling on my thrustmaster Tx, so I am using Jack Spades files and they have greatly improved that aspect. And ya I had to tinker and adjust to get it feeling the way I like, but I don't get the complaints about this, as in my experience every sim needs some adjusting, depending on wheel and preferences.

Physics - Again I find this highly improved. I'm not a race car driver, so I can't comment on how realistic this game is or is not. However I always felt with PC1, that the cars felt like they were floating. It just never felt like they were attached to the road. Though some of the cars vary on quality, as a whole I definitely feel more connected to the road . Upon reading many threads on multiple forums, I have found people complaining that the cars have too much grip, and I have seen people complain the cars spin to easily. So far in my experience I would say the cars feel like they have more grip then most other sims. I have not had the problem with uncontrollable cars. My only experience in a race car, was being taken around for a few laps at Mosport, in a Porsche cup car. I was amazed at the spied we took corners at, and how planted the car felt along the way. Based on that experience I would not say PC2 has too much grip. The car will still spin when I obviously push it to far, or at times when I clip a curb at the wrong angle and speed. But when I do spin it makes sense to me why it happened. I have yet to have an incident that just left me wondering what just happened. Not saying that doesn't happen, I just haven't experienced it yet. Now all that said is the physics perfect? No. I probably prefer raceroom at the moment. But they aren't trash like some say. I'm opinion the cars mostly feel good and are fun to drive.

AI - So there are definite problems with the AI. I have yet to do much racing with the AI, but definitely slow corners and closely pack cars are an issue. Hopefully they are able to fix some of the AI issues through patches, though for me personally I don't spend a whole lot of time racing AI, so it's isn't as big of a deal to me as it is others, but I see the issues there if that's your main thing.

Multiplayer - So their new ranking system is a nice step in the right direction. Over time as players get into their proper ranking level it should be able to set up some good races. I just wish they had gone all the way and put in iracing style series with different rating restrictions, and scheduled races etc. Just having people set up a bunch of random servers can be some fun, but I personally like the more structured approach.

Single player - So assuming the AI gets worked out to a more acceptable level, the career mode still doesn't interest me that much. I did t enjoy it in the first one, and it seems more the same in this one. It would be nice to at least be able to set up custom championships. It is coming to multiplayer, so i cant see why it would be to difficult to add to single player as well. I do enjoy the hot lap competitions. Those suck me in on any game that has them. Hopefully one day I'll get my dream of a real sim getting a real career mode like the old EA NASCAR games had, where you worked your way up from the bottom, earned sponsors, made money and eventually could own your own team, hire drivers get sponsors etc.

Bugs - So I know many of you have likely logged more hours then I have, but I have yet to encounter any of these game breaking bugs that have been written about. With so many variables I systems, and circumstances in a race, I'm sure there will be plenty of bugs people come across that I never do. But so far in my experience it has been fairly minimal, and even though it kind of sucks, these days every game, including sims, will have bugs when they ship. It is just reality of games now, and I am used to it. As long as the developer works to fix the issues as quick as possible, I'm used to it and can deal with it.

Misc - So one thing I have seen posted multiple times, and it is driving me crazy, is that this is just PC 1.5. If this is your feeling can you explain what you feel should be in a sequel? PC2 includes more cars, more tracks (many of which are laser or from scanned), better physics, better ffb, better multiplayer system, improved weather, and more. What is it that would need to be included to make it a real sequel?

And I just can't see where some people are just saying this is simcade or comparing it to Forza. This is a sim. It might not be exactly to your liking, but they are definitely striving for realism.

Another company I have seen but don't understand is that 2 years after the first one we now have to shell out for PC2, and they will likely soon be working on PC3. I know most if not all the current sims are working on a service model, compared to a traditional sequel type model, however I don't see what the complaints are about. Raceroom is my current go to sim, and before that Iracing. Sure you don't have to worry about buy a sequel every 2-3 years, but I guarantee I will have spent more on their content in 2 years then what it cost to buy the new PC.

It seems like this game is getting A lot of negativity due to the first one, and that they dare release on consoles as well. I get the disappointment in PC1, I was highly dissapointed in it as well. And I get a lot of people didn't like how SMS leadership dealt with people and game issues. However based on playing PC2 on its own merit, and leaving everything else aside, this game is much improved. I get that it is not perfect by any means, and not everyone will like It, because there is no product that everyone likes. But I find to many one line posts on it being garbage, with no elaboration, that comes off as just wanting to bash it because it is a project cars game. I find that very dismissive of the work they have put into it, and the positive steps forward they have made. I'm the end we should all hope all these sims are good, and keep driving the others to be better. But for this one it definitely seems there is a chuck of people that just want it to fail no matter what.

 

[takethree]

First time post. Please be gentle haha.

My poison of choice is rFactor2 but I have been recently putting in the hours for PCars2. The physics and ffb is nowhere near or communicative as rFactor2, AMS or even AC but it is definitely very drivable. A big improvement over PCars1. What it has in abundance is a lot of enjoyment factor. Maybe it's the graphics or career mode I don't know but I keep coming back to it. Even the AI somehow improved from my first install to the present day. Not perfect but raceable. So to Ian Bell (if you are reading this) Congrats! I can see myself playing this for years unlike PCars1 where I uninstalled after a month. Really gave up on that one.

 

[Rob Every]

I think people need to look at the big picture with games like this.

Companies like Codies, WMD have the budget, staff and resource to release games every couple of years, whereas RaceRoom or Iracing or even AC look at making a base package and then improving over time.

I look at games like PCARS and Codies games as FIFA or Madden or PGA Golf from EA. They are basically the same every few years, with some additions to try and get you to buy them. I would imagine PCARS in some form or other will be around for a long time like Forza and the same basic engines and stuff will be in each new version. But in essence every couple of years you are paying full price for a very big patch. Not a new game.

There will be good ones and bad ones, as there are with the EA games, and there will be favourites.

So as a user it is up to you. You either go for a complete game every few years that will suffer from inadequacies every time, offer a lot of DLC to increase your outlay probably double time, but offer you a new package and something new to play (sort of) every few years. And we all know how gamers love new game, game marketing companies know it all too well.

Or you subscribe to a stable, constantly refined platform like Iracing or Raceroom that offers content over a longer period, a more established game that works on your machine but does not offer you the thrill of a new purchase, more the temptation of new content now and then. Consistent servers, less issues, but more rules and less flexibility.

They both have their ups and downs. I actually feel a bit sorry for Kunos as I do truly believe they have the best overall package for PC owners. But they simply don't seem to have the budget to make the sort of continuous improvements WMD and Codies do. And it looks like the best game for modders at the moment, with all the joy that brings (and sadness). Similarly RF2, seems like for some the best driving package, but so badly done, awful to look at and hopelessly run. Again, mismanaged.

However, the downside of the other two (PCARS Codies) is that after a certain time they just drop the project and move on to the next one, and offer no support, so as a user you have a window to hope your issue gets fixed, then even if there are loads left to fix they simply give up.

 

[ronniej]

I look forward to the next offering from SMS, Reiza, Simbin UK, and Kunos.....I hope that the future and focus of this genre isn't just going to be about flash and "bling". I mean, I really hope they take us to the next level of "awe" (I want to S*#t my pants when I "start" losing control doing 260kph) And the bling can be a black screen that slowly comes into focus as the heli is lifting off the ground to take me to the hospital....

*Hopefully stronger GPU's, CPU's along with VR will help get me there in the future

 

[Deleted member 99238]

After yesterday, a couple of laps on the Brands Hatch GP in a strong fog on the Renault Sport R.S. 01 GT3, I can say such a feeling of driving, I have not experienced in any game or simulator. Definitely I can recommend this game to buy. This is definitely a new level in the genre of racing games.