AC Rookies: Mazda MX5 Cup @ Brands Hatch Indy - Friday 26th May 2017

[Rupe Wilson]

Yeah that upload shows when u spun me out at 22:40

Yes and he should of waited for you to regain your position in front of him,
That is a breach of our golden rule,

1. Golden Rule: If you hit another driver during a Club race and disadvantage him, we expect you to stop and let the other driver regain his position on you. This shows respect to your fellow drivers and will encourage drivers to be more careful. Please use some care when letting the other driver regain position, and do not immediately stop your car on the racing line where it can cause further accidents.

So
@Iltarix Ilyar consider this a warning, do that again and you will have a 30 day ban.


and a message to all drivers.
please follow our rules and listen to when a staff member asks or request you to do something.

 

[Rupe Wilson]

As regards racing incidents,

9. Try and discuss any incidents with the other drivers involved after the race in a friendly manner. If you feel stressed out by an accident then take 24 hours to calm down, review the replays of the incident and resolve it in a mature way via PM. Do not make angry posts about it on the forum. If you cannot resolve the problem then please contact the staff member that organized your race via PM, sending them an incident report that includes a video that clearly shows the incident.

 

[Crispin Williamson]

As regards racing incidents,

9. Try and discuss any incidents with the other drivers involved after the race in a friendly manner. If you feel stressed out by an accident then take 24 hours to calm down, review the replays of the incident and resolve it in a mature way via PM. Do not make angry posts about it on the forum. If you cannot resolve the problem then please contact the staff member that organized your race via PM, sending them an incident report that includes a video that clearly shows the incident.

Cool, thanks. My first ever race online so happy to learn

 

[Luan Garcia]

Thanks for the racing guys, it was great fun. I was, however, a bit shocked at the lack of adherence to RD rules by some drivers. I understand that this was a rookie race, but there is a link to the rules in the OP of every event thread. There is no excuse for not knowing the rules IMO - ignorence is not a valid defence.
My personal pet hate, is people who consistently fail to stay within track limits. The rules are crystal clear
"Do not deliberately cut the track. The white (or yellow) lines mark the edge of the road. Do not cross them with more than two wheels."
I don't see any reference to whether this means on the inside of the turn, on the outside, on entry or on exit. So what it means is keep a minimum of 2 wheels inside the line at all times... So to me, that means if you put more than 2 wheels outside the line (including on exit from the corner) you are breaking the rules. In my mind, that means cheating. I even saw guys at the very front (I was being lapped, but this is not sour grapes.. I'm a stickler for the rules) doing this, so I find it hard to call these guys rookies.
Sorry chaps, but I believe one should say it like it is.
Shame because the combo and the racing were great fun.
Thanks again.

Denis, I understand your frustration, but you are being too hard on a rookie race. I've heard you complain during the race at least twice, but you didn't mention a name or a turn. I was one of the slow drivers and I dont think I broke the rules, and if I did, wasn't intentionally.
For instance, one time you said Tymon was cheating, then he asked "what turn", and you said "all turns, everytime".
You cannot expect that a rookie with learn anything from that man.

 

[Rupe Wilson]

If you drive at RD you have to follow the rules of RD whether you are a rookie or not..
if you are cutting a corner running or wide on a corner you have adjust your line or slow down, plain and simple, you cant do it again and again lap after lap.
In learning to drive and race you start of slow and build your speed, do it correctly from the start.
Just because you are a rookie driver does not give you free reign to drive outside our rules and gain a unfair advantage over your fellow drivers. But we do give a bit lenience, as we know mistakes can happen to any driver fast or slow.

 

[Denis Betty]

Denis, I understand your frustration, but you are being too hard on a rookie race. I've heard you complain during the race at least twice, but you didn't mention a name or a turn. I was one of the slow drivers and I dont think I broke the rules, and if I did, wasn't intentionally.
For instance, one time you said Tymon was cheating, then he asked "what turn", and you said "all turns, everytime".
You cannot expect that a rookie with learn anything from that man.

I'm not a quick driver myself. With the frustration of seeing people ignoring the rules and whilst desperately trying to control my car, I find it difficult to talk at the same time. This lead to me making a mistake and going off track, but hey, it's only a bit of fun, so no damage done. I also don't know the names of the corners, so "which corner?" isn't gonna get a decent answer. I did catch back up to Tymon at one point, and started calling out each time he exceeded track limits (briefly). He went off track on two consecutive corners. You can hear me calling it on the video posted by Iltarix (linked above).
Anyway, I didn't wanna turn this into a witch hunt on Tyman, or any individual driver. This is about a culture at RD of a lack of respect (IMHO) for the rules... and in particular, rule #8. As I've stated elsewhere, I was lapped by cars that went 2 meters off track limits on the exit of T3... right in front of me. These were front runners and I know the names... some have been at RD for a long time and can in no way be considered rookies. To do this in a "Rookie Race" is (again IMHO) really bad form. How can rookies be expected to learn to drive within RD rules, when longstanding members appear to disregard them?
I've helped in the running of a racing club here at RD for a year or so, and it's taken me a LOT of time and effort (and pain if I'm honest) to rid the club of this culture. Exceeding track limits, at any time, is against the rules. If a driver does it consistently... well that's cheating, I have no other words for it. When I started, I had people joining the club and express their horror at the cutting that was going on. These people had raced on other sites and told me that no such brazen disregard for fair play was happening at these other clubs.
So please, don't hide behind any excuses. The rules are there for everyone to read. They are black and white. There is NO room for interpretation. Please don't cut the track.

 

[Tymon Douglas]

I do realize i went offlimits a few times during T1 and T3 after watching the replay and i apologize, however those weren't intentional. In T1 you risk spinning due to the low grip of the green area. And at T3 i missed the exit twice and ended up in the green field, which for some reason has the same grip as asphalt.

 

[Denis Betty]

I do realize i went offlimits a few times during T1 and T3 after watching the replay and i apologize, however those weren't intentional. In T1 you risk spinning due to the low grip of the green area. And at T3 i missed the exit twice and ended up in the green field, which for some reason has the same grip as asphalt.

Sorry that I chose your driving to call out Tymon. It was nothing personal. You just happened to be the nearest car that I saw going off track. Yes, we all make mistakes, I understand that. If you go off track, you can always lift off the gas after re-entering. Just a quick lift, so that the following car gains a couple tenths. In that way, you can show that it was not intentional and that you would not wish to benefit in any way.
Sorry again that you have had the finger pointed at you. That was really not my intention. It's the culture of cutting that I don't agree with.

 

[Andy_J]

@Denis Betty
You sir are a man of my own heart. A racer with morals and a sense of fair play.

This is exactly what I was arguing against before I had my premium membership stripped off me.

The fact that seasoned veterans as well as new comers to club racing are doing it. You can't blame the new guys, after all they see others doing it and think it's ok. Well it's not. Some people take advantage of lax game track limits deliberately and it is cheating.

If only every one would drive without getting all 4 wheels over the white lines it would be fair to all. Those who actually lift off to enable them to make a corner without getting all 4 wheels over the white lines are at a dis-advantage every time and I was one of them, together with a few other fair racers. But you will get members here saying that you should just live with it, do as they do and stop moaning. It's not a big deal etc (you know who you are). Well it's not on. Yes race, but not at the expense of others who are sticking to Rule 8.
Good on yer for bringing up this problem on here.

 

[Andy_J]

It's a pity this topic isn't in a place where more club racers can read it.

 

[Kek700]

Just my point of view :-

T3 is "so" difficult to get right, it is so easy to go too fast then next time around too slow.
the circuit is so short your back again in no time to repeat the same error.
To make matters worse the mx5 wants 4th gear then back to 3rd just before you judge the corner.
I would say it's the worst corner on any circuit I have drivern for that, it was the only place I observed anyone with all wheels across the white lines including me :-/

 

[Denis Betty]

It's quite simple.
If you're having trouble staying within track limits on a given corner, then you must take it slower. If you loose time, so be it. No excuses, no exceptions, no room for interpretation and no disregard for the rules. Anything else is breaking the rules and if I have to make a video of somebody cheating, then that's what I will do.

 

[Andy_J]

It's quite simple.
If you're having trouble staying within track limits on a given corner, then you must take it slower. If you loose time, so be it. No excuses, no exceptions, no room for interpretation and no disregard for the rules. Anything else is breaking the rules and if I have to make a video of somebody cheating, then that's what I will do.

That is exactly what I was arguing about in the RRE club Denis. But I really was banging my head against a brick wall. Some people don't regard it as cheating and that's the trouble. Hopefully things will change but I doubt it. Maybe a staff meeting to discuss this topic is on the cards?

 

[Denis Betty]

The rules are clear. Nothing will be done unless somebody makes an official complaint, supported with video evidence. Those are the proper channels. It would be nice to think that it's possible to make headway by reasoning with people. This would avoid acrimony and the need for an individual to be the first to stand up and be counted. But until somebody does make a stand, and take this through the proper channels, RD staff are hamstrung. They can't and won't do anything on the strength of hearsay.
I would encourage any and all RD members to police the rules - individually and collectively. If you see a transgression, you should do something about it. Firstly, talk to the individual who you see as the offender (in a friendly and adult manner) and if you can't agree, and you still feel strongly about it, take it through the official process.

EDIT: Actually, having said all of that, I've just realised that I am in favour of reasoned and adult discussion on the topic. I believe that it's a conversation which we need to have at RD, if I'm honest. The danger, however, is that (forums being forums) this could very easily descend into a finger pointing, point scoring bun fight that just fosters an atmosphere of bad feeling. That is not my intention, in fact, it's something which, hand on heart, I honestly want to avoid.

 

[Andy_J]

Agreed. Civilised discussion on the subject is what is needed.
And on that note I will leave this discussion for others to take forward. If it goes forward at all. Which I doubt.

 

[Tymon Douglas]

Just my point of view :-

T3 is "so" difficult to get right, it is so easy to go too fast then next time around too slow.
the circuit is so short your back again in no time to repeat the same error.
To make matters worse the mx5 wants 4th gear then back to 3rd just before you judge the corner.
I would say it's the worst corner on any circuit I have drivern for that, it was the only place I observed anyone with all wheels across the white lines including me :-/

Agreed, that's the place where i mostly ended up on the green too.

 

[Denis Betty]

I refer you to my point in post #112, "If you're having trouble staying within track limits on a given corner, then you must take it slower. If you loose time, so be it".

 

[xnorb]

Especially for Rookie events it might be a good idea to make a quick video showing which track limits apply. Because sometimes it can be really confusing (AMS Adelaide, R3E Indianapolis, and here: T3 in Brands)

Many of us aren't seasoned drivers, we all still have lots to learn - misjudging corners (especially in the heat of a race) can and will happen - the question is if you make something to your standard behavior or if you take another line the upcoming laps once you noticed or were informed that you're violating track limits.
If your fastest line is by driving outside of the track marks, then this is not your fastest line - it's your illegal line and you have to drop it and search for a driving line that's within the track limits.

Do like it was promoted in the Assetto Corsa teaching vids:
Drive a lap on your regular line and then watch the replay from a chasing camera, this will show you very clearly where you're far away from the track limits, where you're on the ideal line and where you're already over the line.
Adjust, then join the server

 

[Rupe Wilson]

Its the white/yellow line on the inside and outside of every track, all tracks in every game have these lines.
This applies to every corner on every track that you race in at RD. We race to RD rules not any official series or championship.
There are very few exceptions to the rule. if there is a exception to the rule it will be stated in the race thread. But this is rarely done and it will be clearly stated by staff in the OP

Once again i do realise mistakes can happen and even i have slipped outside the lines on occasions. but a quick lift of the gas and your on your way again. next lap im a bit more careful on that corner.. practice correctly and your more likely to drive it correctly in the race.

Here is an example of track limits
http://www.racedepartment.com/threa...iday-2nd-june-2017.136247/page-3#post-2488231
in next weeks event.

You can always ask if your still unsure about a certain corner, take a screen shot we can advise from there.

 

[Kek700]

Even after reading all that's been said I still do not feel anyone who overtook me ( and there were plenty that did ( had a bit of a bad day at the office) ) in that race had an advantage over me in T3, in fact I often made more ground back up on them by staying on the Tarmac, but I understood how difficult T3 was not only for me but other people too. I am like everyone else fully aware of corner cutting cheating but I think it needs some degree of give and take. I cannot answer for other people that complained but I never saw anything in that race to make me feel hard done by. I am sure if you purposely run T3 with the intent to gain time that would be different, but all the people in front of me were on the green due to misjudging the corner.