AC Rookies: Audi Sport TT Cup at Le Mans - Wednesday 14th June 2017

[Andy_J]

You have to police yourselves, at times.
You know if you went wide or cut a corner, come on be honest think about it. just lift off the gas whilst off track and then carry on..
You know if you bumped a driver off track though a clumsy maneuver. if in doubt wait,don't take the chance that it won't get reported. its not just a golden rule, its a golden ticket, its a get out of jail free card.. just give the position back its not the end of the world..

Don't let your win at all cost attitude spoil your racing its not worth it..
The attitude in club races has to change and change for the better.
if you want to test yourself join a league, but leave your egos at the door when club racing..
You are right Friendly Events is better than rookie events. (Noted and changed) lets hope it gets the message across.


Im sure over the coming weeks we can turn this around as a group, i think we can all agree when we let AC have control of the rules its not as much fun.. so lets all remember this, and clean up the driving so i don't need to use them again to prove my point. and not have them as a permanent feature in the races run at RD..

Brilliant Post Rupe.
You are the man. I am sure once all members get the message (including some staff) that the rules are for the good of all, the racing in the clubs here will be the best ever. And better than any where else. RD's rules are great as long as they are followed and policed. If people constantly ignore them because the games in-built track cut detection is in use (but not good enough) then that is cheating. It will take time to teach people. But in the end it will be for the best.

 

[RasmusP]

I think that when we talk about rookie races, what we all mean is a race with an "easy car" and fixed setup. I understand that rookies may find discouraging racing against people with more experience, but this is how you learn. Racing against people of your level will never make you a better driver. First thing, you have to learn to be fast and CONSISTENT when you are alone on track. Only then you can train in close racing. The best thing you can do now is watch the top3 in the previous race in the replay and see how they drive. Study their lines, brake point, the use of pedals and the steering. I'm often in the servers training every time i have the chance. If you see me or others, just join and ask for advice, watch us doing some laps. If you feel the pressure from a non rookie driver, then that driver is not that good. I've never caused incidents and i've never been involved in one here on racedepartment simply because my first preoccupation is to have a clean race. Results comes later. A better driver will overtake you when he has a chance and most important, when he feels safe doing so.

Very good words from you!
And I have to compliment you for your race at Le Mans. I watched the replay to see how you did so fast laps and it was astonishing how you did almost no cuts (they were really small and at noway important) and threw the Audi around the track.
You sir are one of the best virtual (didn't you in real ) drivers I ever saw and I am happy to watch you again in the future to learn from it!

To the "ask the faster drivers for advice": I have the feeling that the midfield is talking about how to get faster and the lead group is really quiet and just "doing their thing".
I don't know if that is just a feeling or reality but I think many of the slower guys get that feeling.
It's a bit like there are about 3-8 guys who are fast, not talking and having their own little race while the real Rookie Event starts at the midfield down to the last place.

Please don't take that for 100% "correct", it's just a feeling that I want to speak out, not an accusation at all!
There are Races where that is def. NOT reality since I got 3rd at Mugello, trained real hard for that and was talking to the top 5 all the time while fighting.
Got second last at Le Mans though without hearing any advice etc. only complaining about the penalties

 

[BrianUK]

To the "ask the faster drivers for advice": I have the feeling that the midfield is talking about how to get faster and the lead group is really quiet and just "doing their thing".

I don't know if that is just a feeling or reality but I think many of the slower guys get that feeling.
It's a bit like there are about 3-8 guys who are fast, not talking and having their own little race while the real Rookie Event starts at the midfield down to the last place.

Please don't take that for 100% "correct", it's just a feeling that I want to speak out, not an accusation at all!
There are Races where that is def. NOT reality since I got 3rd at Mugello, trained real hard for that and was talking to the top 5 all the time while fighting.
Got second last at Le Mans though without hearing any advice etc. only complaining about the penalties

Probably because in the race people are concentrating on racing. Free practice is the time for questions, really, and people do turn up quite early so you have plenty of time to ask there. Even then, unless a question is asked, you'll get silence as everyone is generally learning the car/track combo. The fast guys don't just turn up with instant knowledge of the combo, any more than you do.

Also, everyone learns in their own way - for me I learn by doing, I don't get much from something being told to me.

 

[RasmusP]

Probably because in the race people are concentrating on racing. Free practice is the time for questions, really, and people do turn up quite early so you have plenty of time to ask there. Even then, unless a question is asked, you'll get silence as everyone is generally learning the car/track combo. The fast guys don't just turn up with instant knowledge of the combo, any more than you do.

Also, everyone learns in their own way - for me I learn by doing, I don't get much from something being told to me.

Thank you, it's good to read/hear some other opinions about that topic. As I said it's just a feeling which I am critical about.
I can follow your thoughts here and hopefully this "feeling" will be gone in the near future

 

[BhZ]

Very good words from you!
And I have to compliment you for your race at Le Mans. I watched the replay to see how you did so fast laps and it was astonishing how you did almost no cuts (they were really small and at noway important) and threw the Audi around the track.
You sir are one of the best virtual (didn't you in real ) drivers I ever saw and I am happy to watch you again in the future to learn from it!

To the "ask the faster drivers for advice": I have the feeling that the midfield is talking about how to get faster and the lead group is really quiet and just "doing their thing".
I don't know if that is just a feeling or reality but I think many of the slower guys get that feeling.
It's a bit like there are about 3-8 guys who are fast, not talking and having their own little race while the real Rookie Event starts at the midfield down to the last place.

Please don't take that for 100% "correct", it's just a feeling that I want to speak out, not an accusation at all!
There are Races where that is def. NOT reality since I got 3rd at Mugello, trained real hard for that and was talking to the top 5 all the time while fighting.
Got second last at Le Mans though without hearing any advice etc. only complaining about the penalties

First of all, thanks for your kind words, i really appreciate it.
Speaking of advice, i can tell you what i do. I have no problem helping others if they have any problem here on the forum or during a race. Of course, if who asks me an advice is a direct competitor in that race (similar laptimes) i won't give him any until the end of the race for abvious reasons. But if a rookie asks, i have nothing to lose and a lot to gain helping him, so no problem at all. Anyway i don't think that practice is the right moment to ask advice (generally) since i think 30 minutes are not enough to really practice. I see practice as a warm up, so practice has to take place in the previous days. I don't sign in in every single race because i don't like to arrive unprepared to a race, even with fixed setup. I've seen people trying to learn the track during practice. Sure, in 30 minutes you will learn it, but you will be far from your real potential. I've also seen many people choosing wrong braking points. These are by far the most important thing (imho) to get a good laptime and to avoid any kind of incident during the race. When trying a new combo, just try to brake late. Eventually you will go in the grass and the next time you will brake a little earlier and see how it goes. Having different braking points is extremely dangerous in a race, making close racing impossible and creating a lot of incidents.
P.s. Speaking of cuts, all of them are done by mistake due to being always at my limit. I'm the first to remind to stay with 2 wheels inside the line and it would be kind of ironic to do it in the first place.
EDIT: Btw my nickname on steam is BhZ (avatar is a guy in a suit). Everytime you see me in game i'm practicing for a race.

 

[Arcon]

First of all, thanks for your kind words, i really appreciate it.
Speaking of advice, i can tell you what i do. I have no problem helping others if they have any problem here on the forum or during a race. Of course, if who asks me an advice is a direct competitor in that race (similar laptimes) i won't give him any until the end of the race for abvious reasons. But if a rookie asks, i have nothing to lose and a lot to gain helping him, so no problem at all. Anyway i don't think that practice is the right moment to ask advice (generally) since i think 30 minutes are not enough to really practice. I see practice as a warm up, so practice has to take place in the previous days. I don't sign in in every single race because i don't like to arrive unprepared to a race, even with fixed setup. I've seen people trying to learn the track during practice. Sure, in 30 minutes you will learn it, but you will be far from your real potential. I've also seen many people choosing wrong braking points. These are by far the most important thing (imho) to get a good laptime and to avoid any kind of incident during the race. When trying a new combo, just try to brake late. Eventually you will go in the grass and the next time you will brake a little earlier and see how it goes. Having different braking points is extremely dangerous in a race, making close racing impossible and creating a lot of incidents.
P.s. Speaking of cuts, all of them are done by mistake due to being always at my limit. I'm the first to remind to stay with 2 wheels inside the line and it would be kind of ironic to do it in the first place.
EDIT: Btw my nickname on steam is BhZ (avatar is a guy in a suit). Everytime you see me in game i'm practicing for a race.

Hy BhZ,

to prolongate this discussion it want to commit that i do not agree with you in all points. This is a rookie race where rookies come to have fun and to learn from others. I do understand that you wanna hold information for your own success but in a rookie race, even within the same laptimes, you could still help and should not be afraid about loosing one or more position. The only thing that you could be aware about is that you have more fun while driving with more players on a similar skill level. And maybe, if you show this paradigm to others, there are more out there helping each other so you also get a hint from the guy chasing you that pushes you forward. The guy chasing you always knows more than you about your skill. I'm sure you know that and i am sure that you are happy if you get help from others. The guys you are helping while pushing them to the next level will never forget the help you provided to them and will respect you all time, especially if they are on the same skill level than you are.

The next thing is that the practice session may be used as a warmup for qualy and race. Again i have to say, this is a rookie race to help rookies come into simracing. When i started racing at RD I used to set up a server on my own for more practice, but it turned out very quickly that i learn more in the RD practice, qualy and race session than on my server lapping alone. And it has taken me aditionally a lot of time in AC practicing car and track combo that i missed on other things ... it was simply too much driving for me. So today, with a little more experience than 3 months ago, i join a race without practice on the car or track to gain practice and to learn out of my failures. Sure, wrong breakponits make it hard to chase but wouldn't it be your challange to pass a rookie regulary or to help him with his efforts during practice, qualy or even race?

Just remember its a rookie race, take off a little gas and pressure for the fun of driving. This should not mean that you always have to act in the mentioned manner but from time to time, there is maybe someone in front of you that is happy about your advices - even if it is an experienced racer. We are just having one race, its nothing to win about, its not a league or competitive race. Maybe its also an idea to learn your own takeover skillz or defending your position skillz... there are so much ways to play this racing game, especially within a rookie race

I hope you dont understand my words as a negative criticism or blame, its more the conversation that could bring a new spark to me ... you ... them ... everybody . I hope my english is not too bad or my words too long to understand me

 

[Rupe Wilson]

First of all, thanks for your kind words, i really appreciate it.
Speaking of advice, i can tell you what i do. I have no problem helping others if they have any problem here on the forum or during a race. Of course, if who asks me an advice is a direct competitor in that race (similar laptimes) i won't give him any until the end of the race for abvious reasons. But if a rookie asks, i have nothing to lose and a lot to gain helping him, so no problem at all. Anyway i don't think that practice is the right moment to ask advice (generally) since i think 30 minutes are not enough to really practice. I see practice as a warm up, so practice has to take place in the previous days. I don't sign in in every single race because i don't like to arrive unprepared to a race, even with fixed setup. I've seen people trying to learn the track during practice. Sure, in 30 minutes you will learn it, but you will be far from your real potential. I've also seen many people choosing wrong braking points. These are by far the most important thing (imho) to get a good laptime and to avoid any kind of incident during the race. When trying a new combo, just try to brake late. Eventually you will go in the grass and the next time you will brake a little earlier and see how it goes. Having different braking points is extremely dangerous in a race, making close racing impossible and creating a lot of incidents.
P.s. Speaking of cuts, all of them are done by mistake due to being always at my limit. I'm the first to remind to stay with 2 wheels inside the line and it would be kind of ironic to do it in the first place.
EDIT: Btw my nickname on steam is BhZ (avatar is a guy in a suit). Everytime you see me in game i'm practicing for a race.

I have no objection to how much any body wants to practice for a club event, that is entirely up to you. But i will say this its a 30 min race you should just be able to turn up and race..That is the idea of club racing, there should be no need for hours and hours of practice for a club event, Hence is some of my posts i say drivers are taking a club race far to seriously. Some are treating a club race like a league race. and there is no need to. its this i must win attitude that is killing it, and the great social experience is lost..

Most drivers have families and may only get 1 hour of freedom for their hobby. So we provide this in the club racing,
A place to come and have a chat and a drive with friends online.. That is what club racing is about..
in 30 mins you can learn the track and drive round it, in the qually you can improve on that if needed and then in the race have a great event with friends..Not giving help to a fellow competitor who is struggling or even the same lap times goes against every thing i believe in and is not what club racing is about, but again that is completely up to you.

We have no ranking system, for this reason, there a no points in club races, we don't even like to post results.
if we had a ranking system it will be based on events attended, events finished, how active is the guy in the forum is he helping other drivers ect..

In club races mistakes will happen, all we ask is you give back a position, it so simple, but to see cars being punted off track and the driver not waiting is really sad.
Cars might cut the track or run wide its not the end of the world, but to see cars do it deliberately to get a better time or gain a position is just wrong, its cheating. All you have to do is lift of the gas whilst off track, again its so simple.
We give all drivers every chance to redeem a mistake, if you follow our simple rules.
We keep it simple because it does not need to be difficult, basic common sense should prevail. But this attitude from some drivers of, i have to win at all cost is just crazy and disappointing.

Club racing needs to change right across RD, the fun and enjoyment need to return to how it used to be..
Good clean races, everybody helping each other, good banter on teamspeak, the long breaks of silence are not needed, talk to each other get to know each other have fun, throughout the race

 

[Tomi]

Hence is some of my posts i say drivers are taking a club race far to seriously. Some are treating a club race like a league race. and there is no need to. its this i must win attitude that is killing it, and the great social experience is lost..

I really don't understand how trying to be fast and aiming for the race win is killing all the fun At least for me it's a huge part of it. I don't try to win at all costs and I consider myself as a fair gentleman driver but still when I put my virtual helmet on I try to win every race I take part. I don't mind if I don't win but it's great fun to trying it. Does that mean I kill all the fun from others too?

 

[Rupe Wilson]

Nothing wrong with trying to win,
But spending 4 hours practicing for a half hour event is a bit excessive, i my mind, then complaining that some guys cant drive to the same standard. How can they with only half a hour on track.
So a win at all cost,, can mean the amount of time taken practicing or even worse cheating by not obeying the Rules of RD

hope this clears it up,

 

[BhZ]

In club races mistakes will happen, all we ask is you give back a position, it so simple, but to see cars being punted off track and the driver not waiting is really sad.
Cars might cut the track or run wide its not the end of the world, but to see cars do it deliberately to get a better time or gain a position is just wrong, its cheating. All you have to do is lift of the gas whilst off track, again its so simple.
We give all drivers every chance to redeem a mistake, if you follow our simple rules.
We keep it simple because it does not need to be difficult, basic common sense should prevail. But this attitude from some drivers of, i have to win at all cost is just crazy and disappointing.

Not sure why you are telling me this about the rules...I've always respected them and you can check both the replays on assetto corsa or i can link to you my last race on youtube.
Speaking of rookie races, i wasn't saying that people shouldn't race without practice, i was saying what in my opinion is needed to actually improve. Racing in a pack of cars with different braking points, barely knowing the track, is not usefull and it won't make you a better driver. People are free to do whatever they want and i'm ok with it. When i race in a club race here, my target is victory (what's the point otherwise) and if a good driver shows up and beat me or stays close to me for the entire race, then great, more learning for me. I will always race respecting the rules. As i said, i'm ready to help people and more than once i posted in various race posts "i'm in the server if anyone wants to practice".
@Arcon If a rookie has similar laptimes to me, then it's not a rookie. The only race with rookies i had was with the tt at le mans and it has been an awful experience. I saw a lot of people cutting, others were not able to keep the car on the road, contacts on the straight. That doesn't help the learning process. As i said earlier, I've already given my disponibility to work on the setup with me during other races. Most people don't ask. Just to make an example: GT3s at Le Mans. I heard just 2 questions "what wings are you guys running on the ferrari?" and i replied "0-4" and the other was "how much fuel do i need?". Many people keep saying that good drivers keep their secrets for themselves. The truth is that many rookies don't ask and "our secret" is just practice.
P.s. Sorry if my english made you think that i was complaining about rookie races @Rupe Wilson, i wasn't. That was meant to be an advice on how to improve.

 

[BhZ]

Nothing wrong with trying to win,
But spending 4 hours practicing for a half hour event is a bit excessive, i my mind, then complaining that some guys cant drive to the same standard. How can they with only half a hour on track.
So a win at all cost,, can mean the amount of time taken practicing or even worse cheating by not obeying the Rules of RD

hope this clears it up,

I generally practice one hour for race, 1 hour and a half if i think the car can go a bit faster than that. I like to practice, to find my limit, to push the car to its limit and maybe learn more, racing is all about that afterall.

 

[RasmusP]

Not sure why you are telling me this about the rules...I've always respected them and you can check both the replays on assetto corsa or i can link to you my last race on youtube.
Speaking of rookie races, i wasn't saying that people shouldn't race without practice, i was saying what in my opinion is needed to actually improve. Racing in a pack of cars with different braking points, barely knowing the track, is not usefull and it won't make you a better driver. People are free to do whatever they want and i'm ok with it. When i race in a club race here, my target is victory (what's the point otherwise) and if a good driver shows up and beat me or stays close to me for the entire race, then great, more learning for me. I will always race respecting the rules. As i said, i'm ready to help people and more than once i posted in various race posts "i'm in the server if anyone wants to practice".
@Arcon If a rookie has similar laptimes to me, then it's not a rookie. The only race with rookies i had was with the tt at le mans and it has been an awful experience. I saw a lot of people cutting, others were not able to keep the car on the road, contacts on the straight. That doesn't help the learning process. As i said earlier, I've already given my disponibility to work on the setup with me during other races. Most people don't ask. Just to make an example: GT3s at Le Mans. I heard just 2 questions "what wings are you guys running on the ferrari?" and i replied "0-4" and the other was "how much fuel do i need?". Many people keep saying that good drivers keep their secrets for themselves. The truth is that many rookies don't ask and "our secret" is just practice.
P.s. Sorry if my english made you think that i was complaining about rookie races @Rupe Wilson, i wasn't. That was meant to be an advice on how to improve.

I think some of us sim racers are just not as serious about it than others. When I read your words it sounds like a Michael Schumacher is racing with his sons and wants them to be F1 champion in the future. That's completely okay, don't get me wrong!
Others are seeing the (now called friendly) Club races more like karting with their friends. Talking, making jokes, telling what they ate today, having a beer while battling for position and if you spin each other out you laugh about it and wait for the others.

Yeah, that's the maximum extremes that I just mentioned and reality is somewhere between that. Point is: we would probably need two separate events for pleasure everyone. Like league and Club, but "serious Club" and "let's have a beer and talk about our lifes club"
I was the "serious one" at mugello and the beer one at Le Mans

 

[Rupe Wilson]

guys don't take things so personally, i m try to give a broad outline of what club racing is supposed to be about..
The main goal of club racing is to have fun with friends, and learn whilst doing it.
The main goal in a league is to win. that is raced for point and maybe prizes.

 

[BhZ]

I think some of us sim racers are just not as serious about it than others. When I read your words it sounds like a Michael Schumacher is racing with his sons and wants them to be F1 champion in the future. That's completely okay, don't get me wrong!
Others are seeing the (now called friendly) Club races more like karting with their friends. Talking, making jokes, telling what they ate today, having a beer while battling for position and if you spin each other out you laugh about it and wait for the others.

Yeah, that's the maximum extremes that I just mentioned and reality is somewhere between that. Point is: we would probably need two separate events for pleasure everyone. Like league and Club, but "serious Club" and "let's have a beer and talk about our lifes club"
I was the "serious one" at mugello and the beer one at Le Mans

I agree but i dont think we'd need 2 events. I have no problem racing against slower drivers as long as it's safe doing so.

 

[RasmusP]

I agree but i dont think we'd need 2 events. I have no problem racing against slower drivers as long as it's safe doing so.

I don't want 2 Events either. I just wanted to point it out.
I think we all will find a way to have fun together (we already have fun, but you know what I mean)

 

[Rupe Wilson]

Eugene and Glaurung run events that cater for more the seasoned driver..
with practice server up for a longer time..
We run 2 night a week for the beginner or guy who want more of a relaxed atmosphere, but strangely it attracted the seasoned driver in greater numbers..
maybe they just wanted to show off their skills to others i don't know, score a cheap win over the beginners..
granted some guys have been very helpful and i thank you for this, but also some have been a problem with their driving, not setting a great example to the new guys.
And some of the fast guys just loved the atmosphere we have in teamspeak and it gave them a break from there normal 9 to 5 lifestyle. and the fun had returned to sim racing which they missed. and i don't want to loose this..

 

[BhZ]

Eugene and Glaurung run events that cater for more the seasoned driver..
with practice server up for a longer time..
We run 2 night a week for the beginner or guy who want more of a relaxed atmosphere, but strangely it attracted the seasoned driver in greater numbers..
maybe they just wanted to show off their skills to others i don't know, score a cheap win over the beginners..
granted some guys have been very helpful and i thank you for this, but also some have been a problem with their driving, not setting a great example to the new guys.
And some of the fast guys just loved the atmosphere we have in teamspeak and it gave them a break from there normal 9 to 5 lifestyle. and the fun had returned to sim racing which they missed. and i don't want to loose this..

I can talk only for myself. I raced in the rookie race because i like the audi tt. I also race in Eugene's event and i must say that there are a lot of rookies there as well. I think the difference is the car/track rather than the general skill of the drivers that define a rookie race at the moment.

 

[RasmusP]

I can talk only for myself. I raced in the rookie race because i like the audi tt. I also race in Eugene's event and i must say that there are a lot of rookies there as well. I think the difference is the car/track rather than the general skill of the drivers that define a rookie race at the moment.

I took part at the gt3 Event at Nordschleife endurance and got easily not far away from the leading group while in the Rookie events it's really hard to get to the front.
So I agree with you on that, but only based on my one time experience so don't take it too seriously

 

[BhZ]

I took part at the gt3 Event at Nordschleife endurance and got easily not far away from the leading group while in the Rookie events it's really hard to get to the front.
So I agree with you on that, but only based on my one time experience so don't take it too seriously

From what i can tell you there are 3-4 drivers in the gt3 field that are really fast and usually they are 2 seconds faster than the group behind. The reason why the rookie even seems harder is that slower cars (especially with p2p) allow a lot of overtakes which slow you down and give the leading group the possibility to create a huge gap. You've seen my race at le mans. That's exactly what happened. Took the first position at the first chicane, behind me there was a group of 4 cars that instead of helping each other to get me, decided to battle for the second position. In 3 laps i was completely alone. In a GT3 race is harder to see something like that.

 

[Arcon]

Jo guyes,

for me its very exciting to read in this thread because everybody is finding good words for his perpective what forces a great and interesting discussion ... thank you all for that great conversation, i'm glad to race with RD

I think @Tomi there is a lot more than only to win a race in simracing. The descition to see the possibilities depends on several very personal character settings and is nothing to be forced by an external person like me or anybody else. Just be aware about rookies like me on track ... for me it's mentally still hard to stay on my line if i want to evade an attacker from behind rather than pulling the car to the side what mostly will force an accident ... ... if you would blame me for the accident afterwords you would kill the fun of others that are really sorry for their rookie failures.

cheers