PC1 Reaction to the newer builds

[Randy Winston]

I have been avoiding pCARS for a while, because of problems with input lag and laggy graphics at the lowest settings. I decided to give it another try this evening as I had nothing to do. I'm glad I did, as it is massively improved since I last tried it a couple of months ago. I think some fine tuning with regards to my ffb settings and this could be great fun. I'm looking forward to this game, mostly on the consoles, because if there isn't going to be modding, I'd rather have it on there anyway. So to the detractors, I urge you to give it another shot. They are getting there.

 

[Kazumi]

Thats my point exactly, in a game the car spins off like pictured below.

[ Picture ]

Where as, in a sim the cars central point and mass shift (mass displayed as red circle, red arrow shows where the mass is shifting too) and the car does not spin in a straight line, it kinda makes a strange curving motion (from the drivers perspective)

[ Picture ]

From the spectators point of view, it may look like the car does a 360 but from the drivers point of view the feeling of spinning is far from circular.

Good point. In terms of motion and feel, you probably shouldn't get the perfect circle unless maybe on rain or low grip situations (or forced weight transfer, e-brake and so on, well the stuff with which you force a more or less smooth 360° ) - however that's about traction again, which always plays a role in vehicle dynamics

Still it's safe to say that pCars isn't about a "center point", there are hundred things to influence center of mass and traction, and after all when you mention GSC and rFactor you think about the best mods and/or years of experience by the team.

 

[Adrian Britton]

I would like to differ and say pcars does have a fix central turning, if it didnt there would be less of the (head turning) and the cars would be more responsive.

Of course when you turn the whole thing into 3dimensional, you can see the values and parameters of how the four contact point change the way a car would turn and allow the body to move.
As the body of the car is always trying to be horizontal and the active suspension is always trying to turn the body in the direction requested.

 

[David Ignjatovic]

I agree Adrian, and that's what I mean by "digital sponge"......that said, it now seems to be common knowledge that we've been testing console physics, and that PC physics are yet to come, hence the new tyre model etc.

If they do manage to remove that spongy feeling and do deliver something that feels like it has a distinct front and rear, then that alone would be a great improvement, but they've got a lot of work ahead of them on the physics/FFB side of the equation.

 

[Kazumi]

Then it's either much worse then S2U or we agree to disagree

But Adrian, you do agree the "circle" spin motion is more likely when there's no traction?

 

[Adrian Britton]

That will explain everything then David.

I have three wheels an old cheap 3 in 1 thrustmaster ferrari experience, a microsoft side winder and a G27.
Out of the three, the cheapo 3in1 is the best wheel with pcars (a gaming wheel), its smooth and there is no lag whats so ever, where as the other two slow everything down and you can feel the arcade game, mannerisms and shortfalls.

I agree with you to some state Kazumi, if a car looses traction then it would only be for a split second, then one of the four wheels would make contact and throw the central fugal force to off balance the spin of the car.

 

[Kazumi]

I agree Adrian, and that's what I mean by "digital sponge"......that said, it now seems to be common knowledge that we've been testing console physics, and that PC physics are yet to come, hence the new tyre model etc.

If they do manage to remove that spongy feeling and do deliver something that feels like it has a distinct front and rear, then that alone would be a great improvement, but they've got a lot of work ahead of them on the physics/FFB side of the equation.

Could also be that the "pure" FFB forces work more to your liking if just the spongy feel is gone. No way to proof either...

 

[David Ignjatovic]

Could also be that the "pure" FFB forces work more to your liking if just the spongy feel is gone. No way to proof either...

I don't think much of the current FFB, and I suspect everything is built as a "whole", so improve one aspect and you'll expose a weakness in another.

People on WMD are proclaiming the trainer as a good car, but it's really that it's so slow it doesn't exaggerate the sponginess.....OTOH, the new rf2 Clio is masterpiece of FFB and steering precision, easily the most detailed front end in sim racing.

 

[Peter]

All the cars have a very flippy steering now, it's very hard to drive out of the corner. It's like the car move around the steering wheel instead of the other way around.
Even F1 2011 has a better steering feeling and ffb.
Why do I need 900° if I only use 50° in pCars.

 

[Super Koala]

I downloaded a FFB file from WMD on the builds thread that has improved the ffb for me a bit.
To throw another spanner in the works, David may well be right. This game is multi platform so maybe we are just in this phase of the developement cycle.

Also, Why should SMS develop the game the same way as other developers usually do it? I see no rationale for that. Go your own way I always say.

I would like to put this into the context that I see in front of my own eyes.

Rf2 is probably the best physics on a PC as of now. I can only say this from an open wheelers point of view. This is a gut feeling, I have no practical experience.
Look how many are prepared to race these beauties in the RD race club. or for that matter, the leagues. I know I'm Captain slow but there must be others who can give me a race. If you look at the club page you will see many people looking at the club race threads but so few who join in. I would like to know why.

My point is that if I was Mr pCARS This would not pass my notice. If I look at the pCARS records tab I see many people racing each other for the best lap time. So why should I change my developement plan? It didn't do rFactor 2 any good did it?

I also wonder if RD numbers for open wheelers might pick up a little if we were driving the Brabham... good looking....wall smashing.... oh! no last again....cross country Formula One

 

[Adrian Britton]

I would just like to remind everyone though what it says about pcars on the slightly mad studio's web site.....

Project CARS is the first of those titles to use the WMD development system and represents the ‘Ultimate Driver Journey’…

• FRANCHISE MODE allows you to carve out a personalized career starting in the Karting world and then progressing on to whichever motorsport specialization you prefer including Rally, Touring Cars, Open-Wheel, GT, Le Mans, and many more!

• Play CO-OP with a friend as Driver/Co-Driver

• FULL TEAM MANAGEMENT… Have a large number of friends? Create, manage, and compete together!

• Experience the excitement of PIT STOPS like you’ve never seen before!

• Revolutionary PIT-2-CAR RADIO gives you the strategic advantage

• DYNAMIC Time Of Day & Localized Weather make every race unique and challenging

• 10+ GAME MODES covering every form of motorsport

• CLOUD-BASED SOCIAL NETWORK allows you to connect with friends, compare times & scores, compete and challenge each other, and share content

• USER-GENERATED CONTENT – Create your own liveries, decals, tuning setups, and even events! Then share them with the world – either for free, in-game credits or even real money!

• PUSHING TO THE LIMITS – Advanced physics, lighting, and AI

I also remember before rfactor 2 and pcars was released, someone from wmd said "Pcars is going to crap all over rfactor 2"


You can polish a dog doo, as often as you like (make it look as shiny as you like) but that the fact remains "its still dog doo"

If your making a game (then make a game) dont go about saying "its going to be the best SIM ever" if all your making is an arcade game.

 

[Super Koala]

So why so few racing on the RD rf2 servers?

 

[Adrian Britton]

Personaly!
I sim, I can drive hours on end round the nordschleife circuit, I am not much of a online racer, other people ruin it with reckless driving or risky moves, that where never gunna work.
So I go for the immersion and experience then the competitiveness that online racing brings.
I drive for the fun of driving

 

[Mapu]

I don't want to go off-topic, but the "problem" with rF2 is its Beta Status. At least for me this is the reason why I haven't touched it yet and still use rF1.

I keep waiting until the final products (which have been announced lately) come out and try the demos.

Online Racing: well, I just say that you have to be careful chosing where to race to enjoy your time, even some "race communities" which do have a proper rule set do lack the proper manners sometimes (RD and some other communities are not among these!).

As for pcars, it's great to see that somebody is actually taking the challenge to prove what it is not, although it was promised otherwise by the "community driven lead" before work started. I don't think that it was necessary to take on the challenge since many sim-players know the obvious but clarification is always a good thing for those who do not.

Anyway it is an important input to separate the simulators from the causal games. But it remains questionable if the pcars community can be convinced about this fact. At least it got a lot quieter and friendlier in here. Thanks for that!

 

[Super Koala]

Thanks for the info. May be that is it then, still in beta.

 

[David Ignjatovic]

rf2's beta process has been fairly silly, they should've released at b85 spec, and then we'd have a number of very good cars and presumably many happy campers......as it is, the b85 spec F35 is a great sim car, yet very few want to drive it or any car.

Someone's going to come in and say it's for the modders, yet they're apparently waiting on updates.

You guessed it, I'm back to GTR Evo MP, anyway, let's hope there's a huge sales spree when it goes gold, but they need to move away from whacky cars and boring ones for that matter.

 

[David Ignjatovic]

IAt least it got a lot quieter and friendlier in here.

I see the same old faces, except the pcars heavies
A lot of people at WMD are using gamepads and crappy DFGT's and judge pcars near, or as good as GTR EVO, however, you only have to take EVO's mighty C6R to Adelaide 2011 to re-experience sim car greatness.

Even though rf2 and GSC would probably have the top 5 sim cars now, I think I'd have to put the C6R in my top 3 sim cars of all time based on a fun factor measure, as it still drives so well, and at a tough track like Adelaide, it eats it for breakfast with it's poise and precision.

 

[Mapu]

[...] using gamepads and crappy DFGT's [...]

Why are you putting DFGT's on the same level as gamepads and say these things are "crap"?

 

[David Ignjatovic]

Why are you putting DFGT's on the same level as gamepads and say these things are "crap"?

Because the pedals are crap and I suspect people can't feel how limited pcars is compared to a G27 or greater.

 

[Super Koala]

I'm putting my helmet back on and going to hide in my foxhole again

 

[Mapu]

Because the pedals are crap and I suspect people can't feel how limited pcars is compared to a G27 or greater.

I wonder why I can. Anyway that's okay, they are cheaper then G27s (but not crap!) and still, I am competitive when I need to be. So much for "cheap" wheels.