RD Formula FG Championship Season 1

[Milos]

@mystaaRS Similar mate, missing some chunks of info it seems, chuck me a PM.

didn't you mean Tomas? Because Rami participated last season with Cedars, and a livery.

 

[Aidan Keranen]

didn't you mean Tomas? Because Rami participated last season with Cedars, and a livery.

No, I am missing info of Rami's team for this season. I don't seem to have an idea on colours, engines or tyres. Seeing that I have been given engine applications from every other team, this is a crucial bit of info.
but if I've made a mistake somewhere just direct me to it

 

[Lesley Buurlage]

tim ''jaws'' engberinks helmet for S2

 

[Benutzername]

tim ''jaws'' engberinks helmet for S2
We werent informed about that

 

[Tim.E]

tim ''jaws'' engberinks helmet for S2
View attachment 86509 View attachment 86510

#MarioAndretti swag, thanks Lesley for making it, have you already send it to Aidan?

 

[mystaaRS]

@Aidan Keranen I'll send you a PM now, not had a lot of time to prepare before

 

[Aidan Keranen]

Right, so everyone is welcome to have a read of the Season 2 Regulation Update, but please be warned this is still a draft. Should something arise that is deemed to not be needed, or extra stuff added, it will happen. Note that down the bottom is a changelog with a one word description of what has been edited, but for simplicity sake anything in red is new/changed.
so happy reading!
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1UQQWHhY1Qg67gx0fCHobwAfU28kTSQHDjExVznFdAnc/edit?usp=sharing

 

[Tim.E]

Right, so everyone is welcome to have a read of the Season 2 Regulation Update, but please be warned this is still a draft. Should something arise that is deemed to not be needed, or extra stuff added, it will happen. Note that down the bottom is a changelog with a one word description of what has been edited, but for simplicity sake anything in red is new/changed.
so happy reading!
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1UQQWHhY1Qg67gx0fCHobwAfU28kTSQHDjExVznFdAnc/edit?usp=sharing

You did a great job edtiting the regulations, looks fine by me. As we're getting closer to the start of the season. I'm very excited

 

[Aidan Keranen]

You did a great job edtiting the regulations, looks fine by me. As we're getting closer to the start of the season. I'm very excited

while thats awesome to hear, I'm sweating on this getting past our resident proof reader and ideas man @Smartbean

 

[Tim.E]

while thats awesome to hear, I'm sweating on this getting past our resident proof reader and ideas man @Smartbean

I haven't heard him yet, so maybe that's a sign of you editing the rules perfectly.

 

[Milos]

I haven't heard him yet, so maybe that's a sign of you editing the rules perfectly.

or a sign of him not coming online yet

 

[Smartbean]

Right, so everyone is welcome to have a read of the Season 2 Regulation Update, but please be warned this is still a draft. Should something arise that is deemed to not be needed, or extra stuff added, it will happen. Note that down the bottom is a changelog with a one word description of what has been edited, but for simplicity sake anything in red is new/changed.
so happy reading!
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1UQQWHhY1Qg67gx0fCHobwAfU28kTSQHDjExVznFdAnc/edit?usp=sharing

while thats awesome to hear, I'm sweating on this getting past our resident proof reader and ideas man @Smartbean

Right, now that I'm online I can say I have read the regulation changes.

To change 2.1 (Season Races) Good implementation of the voting system imo.
To change 2.2.1 (Test Rewards) Regulation changes in this aspect seem pretty fair as now we know what and how things will proceed.
To change 3.1.1 (Rights to a shape) A decent precautionary measure that makes/keeps the grid somewhat recognizable regarding the shapes used by a team.
To change 3.3 (Tyres) More aesthetics, more choice. I like it.
To change 4.4 (Engine Prices) Even though the tone is already lowered somewhat from the winning constructor to the leading Tier 1 user to receive the discount, I think this will still give 1 team a (however small) advantage over the other Tier 1 engine users or over the other 10 teams even. If a discount like this should become effective I think it should count for every team that decide to stick with their engine supplier.
To change 7.1.2 (Season Start - Teams) Small clarifying change.
To change 7.2.1 (Race Money) Good revision of the rewards, would make things a bit more fair imo.
To change 7.2.2 (Sponsors) Good revision of the qualifying sponsors, would make things a bit more fair to.
To change 7.4.1 (Retired Drivers/Teams) Good clarification on what drivers can expect when they return, but I'm missing the same clarification for Teams?

And finally a personal note, @Aidan Keranen I would like to stick with my basic helmet I used last season; main color blue, secondary color yellow.

 

[Milos]

To change 4.4 (Engine Prices) Even though the tone is already lowered somewhat from the winning constructor to the leading Tier 1 user to receive the discount, I think this will still give 1 team a (however small) advantage over the other Tier 1 engine users or over the other 10 teams even. If a discount like this should become effective I think it should count for every team that decide to stick with their engine supplier.

I agree about this one. The idea of DTK getting 1 BHP bonus wasn't popular, and a discount!! That is definetly not good.
I'm always for giving everyone an equal chance.

So, DTK used a T1 engine in S1, and are using it again in S2 (not true, but let's say they did), they get 782 value for quali. Average for a T1 engine.
Now that would mean that they get +1 bonus, so 783. And, for the discount they also can upgrade 1 more BHP, so 784 now.
All of a sudden DTK's engine is a very good T1 engine for quali, getting there from average.

I haven't seen the "engine maker guarantee" part in the rules though, but even without that DTK would still get a boost from the discount, that is almost exactly the same to the old engine maker guarantee rule.
(disregarding they are not using a T1 engine of course)

 

[Aidan Keranen]

The T1 engine bonus was (as I demonstrated beforehand with my linked post) a long standing part of the game, just it hadn't been written into the regulations.
The simple fact is that teams are given the choice, the T1 engines are solid, if unspectacular. They won't always be the best engine at season start, and there is little guarantee of continued development through the season if they start behind. But having to pay $400 is a lot to run the risk of mediocrity with not much to gain. Hence, seeing that the T1 engines are supposedly 'rolling in the dosh' as they say, they can afford to give the team that has used their engines best a reward. You have to brave the season (or more) of paying twice as much as anyone else, then you are given the luxury of a consistent engine at the same price.
You guys say that they get a small advantage, well yes. But look at a T2 engine. It could get to 890 for $200. T1 engines will only get to 885, or 885/886 if that saved $200 was spent.

Especially at the time I came up with it, I thought more people would have used T1 engines, so in that regard I am wrong.

The champion guarantee had little support, so it was canned. But the discount will stay, and seeing this is the first season it will get used, I cannot foresee what impact it will have (probably noticeable). In later seasons, if the data suggests it needs to be changed (like the quali rewards) then it will be changed.


And teams won't be given the retirement bonus. But I will probably add in something for them, say a 3 season gap and they can start at $1000, or whatever they were previously if over $1000. Because last season we lost two teams, but I have deemed them as kicks (Elite Two and EvoGP). Therefore they would both come back as 'new' teams. OMR weren't really the team, as such I wish to see them given a chance and start 'new' as well.

 

[Tim.E]

And there he is

 

[Smartbean]

The T1 engine bonus was (as I demonstrated beforehand with my linked post) a long standing part of the game, just it hadn't been written into the regulations.
The simple fact is that teams are given the choice, the T1 engines are solid, if unspectacular. They won't always be the best engine at season start, and there is little guarantee of continued development through the season if they start behind. But having to pay $400 is a lot to run the risk of mediocrity with not much to gain. Hence, seeing that the T1 engines are supposedly 'rolling in the dosh' as they say, they can afford to give the team that has used their engines best a reward. You have to brave the season (or more) of paying twice as much as anyone else, then you are given the luxury of a consistent engine at the same price.
You guys say that they get a small advantage, well yes. But look at a T2 engine. It could get to 890 for $200. T1 engines will only get to 885, or 885/886 if that saved $200 was spent.

Especially at the time I came up with it, I thought more people would have used T1 engines, so in that regard I am wrong.

I see what you're getting at, but for the sake of discussion, I would counter with the following: taking a Tier 2 engine you could get you up to 890 indeed, but can also can get you as little as 870 if you're unlucky in the roll. The bottom value for Tier 1 engines are 880. So if team A with a tier 2 engine gets 876 as value and team B with a tier 1 engine gets 880, then team B are already 4 BHP ahead and still have the $200 discount extra in hand to use on upgrades, which could make the gap even bigger and thus creating an even larger advantage for team B.

This discount can work both ways and to me it's more likely that it could work as an advantage rather than a disadvantage. So to me it sounds more fair that if a discount is to be used it would count for all teams that decide to stick with their engine supplier.

The champion guarantee had little support, so it was canned. But the discount will stay, and seeing this is the first season it will get used, I cannot foresee what impact it will have (probably noticeable). In later seasons, if the data suggests it needs to be changed (like the quali rewards) then it will be changed.

I'm glad to hear that. My impression was that this champion guarantee was converted into the engine discount, but that seems not to be the case. My mistake on that one. Considering this, I'm not that opposed to the engine discount any more, but still would find it more fair if it would count for all teams that stick with their engine supplier.

And teams won't be given the retirement bonus. But I will probably add in something for them, say a 3 season gap and they can start at $1000, or whatever they were previously if over $1000. Because last season we lost two teams, but I have deemed them as kicks (Elite Two and EvoGP). Therefore they would both come back as 'new' teams. OMR weren't really the team, as such I wish to see them given a chance and start 'new' as well.

This makes sense to me. But maybe for clarification purposes, also write this policy down explicitly under 7.4.1 as well me thinks

 

[Milos]

the constructors's championship payouts is a good enough reward tbh, if you were placed high in the WCC.
This discount could also means that a sole engine user (2KF1, Cosworth), as the best placed, and only placed team in the WCC could be getting a "free discount", for just being there and doing nothing (even if they are P11/last)

Elite Two

I don't consider this a kick. Josh clearly said he was leaving, unlike Davin. Only Evo GP is a kick imo.

 

[kedy89]

the wcc reward isn't really one, as the only thing it allows is to spend more in the current season. In the new one, the 11th placed team could start with the same amount of cash, as the budgets are cut after the rewards are applied.

Also no big fan of the tier 1 best team discount. Such a thing would make way more sense if only 2/3 engines are available as choice, but like now with so many different suppliers almost every tier 1 engine supplies only one team. Imo it's a bit of a reward for not taking any risks.

 

[Aidan Keranen]

I see what you're getting at, but for the sake of discussion, I would counter with the following: taking a Tier 2 engine you could get you up to 890 indeed, but can also can get you as little as 870 if you're unlucky in the roll. The bottom value for Tier 1 engines are 880. So if team A with a tier 2 engine gets 876 as value and team B with a tier 1 engine gets 880, then team B are already 4 BHP ahead and still have the $200 discount extra in hand to use on upgrades, which could make the gap even bigger and thus creating an even larger advantage for team B.

This discount can work both ways and to me it's more likely that it could work as an advantage rather than a disadvantage. So to me it sounds more fair that if a discount is to be used it would count for all teams that decide to stick with their engine supplier.


I'm glad to hear that. My impression was that this champion guarantee was converted into the engine discount, but that seems not to be the case. My mistake on that one. Considering this, I'm not that opposed to the engine discount any more, but still would find it more fair if it would count for all teams that stick with their engine supplier.


This makes sense to me. But maybe for clarification purposes, also write this policy down explicitly under 7.4.1 as well me thinks

Tad wrong there, T2 only goes down to 775. Look I can take that into account, but at the end of the day I can see no point in going T1 otherwise. You pay more knowing full well you are most likely going to be an 'average' engine. I don't see why people would.
We'll see where it goes, perhaps a reduction to just 3 T1 engines in the future. But it won't go away. And definitely not before its even entered the series.

the constructors's championship payouts is a good enough reward tbh, if you were placed high in the WCC.
This discount could also means that a sole engine user (2KF1, Cosworth), as the best placed, and only placed team in the WCC could be getting a "free discount", for just being there and doing nothing (even if they are P11/last)


I don't consider this a kick. Josh clearly said he was leaving, unlike Davin. Only Evo GP is a kick imo.

Josh was still around some other places, I found it annoying that he couldn't make it even a little bit. Then Dovi was essentially made the manager, did nothing. The team got a lot of money from doing nothing, I don't feel they deserve it.
Also what you are forgetting is that while 2KF1 could have been last, they were paying double what Apex would with a T2 engine (so far, fair enough), for an engine that is probably going to be equal or behind. You have to go through the pain of a double price, average engine before you get the reward of starting on the same page financially.

 

[Smartbean]

Tad wrong there, T2 only goes down to 775. Look I can take that into account, but at the end of the day I can see no point in going T1 otherwise. You pay more knowing full well you are most likely going to be an 'average' engine. I don't see why people would.
We'll see where it goes, perhaps a reduction to just 3 T1 engines in the future. But it won't go away. And definitely not before its even entered the series.

If it's really a minimum of 775 for Tier 2 you need to amend that in the regulations as well, because it's currently saying 770, as shown here:

4.3.2 Value Ranges
4.3.2.e Every manufacturer in a tier has the same range for values, but these ranges change as per different tiers.

Tier 1: 780-785 HP, 4000-4800 COF
Tier 2: 770-790 HP, 3800-5500 COF
Tier 3: 760-795 HP, 4200-6000 COF

But I get that you like to try it out and like I said, I'm not that opposed to it any more now it is clear that this is separate from the whole engine makers guarantee thing.