Podium DD's VS Simucube 2's

[Darren Byrne]

Hi guys, the past while I was trying to find good comparisons between these two models of dd's. Has anyone tested both ? I understand that the software for these aren't complete yet but is there any clear winner here ? thanks.

 

[Moonmachine]

I hear you and expected the same, It came through to my bank as 1 to 1. I believe the prices have gone up, unless it’s rona tax. I cancelled my order through DT, could be a mistake but I personally do not wish to order anything with them.

 

[JakeMerr]

Ouch. That's rather expensive haha. Yeah I don't like DT either but I didn't want to keep rolling the dice of getting lucky with a restock. I now have a date when fingers crossed it will arrive.

 

[jakburn2029]

@Moonmachine,

It came in about £2880, £520 of that is VAT, Been saving for about two years to update my sim gear, while waiting to see what was going to be available, game and hardware wise.

Heusinkveld Sprints or Ultimates is the next decision.

Does anyone have their sequential shifter? feedback appreciated.

Then theirs the VR to look into.

J

 

[Roger Brown]

I bought the DD2 when it first was available. It took a bit, but when I finally got everything dialed in it has been perfect. Not really knowing what the hazards were, I set the Force Feedback and a couple other adjustments way too high and almost tore my hand off when I hit a tree in Dirt Rally. It is a fact that thing is way powerful and can really hurt you if you if are not careful with the settings.
Today, if I had it to do everything over, I would buy the DD2 in a heartbeat.
Life is good,
Roger Brown

 

[Konnichy]

Hello everyone,

The SC2 specifications mention a "Max torque slew rate" of 4.8 Nm/ms for the Sport and 8 Nm/ms for the Pro.

I have no idea about how this characteristic translates to the feel and even whether it is of any interest at all.

Do anyone have an idea about how DD1/DD2 compare to SC2 in this regard?

 

[Glaniu]

here is the problem because there is not much technical information on the podium (procesor,encoder,,,)

 

[Konnichy]

here is the problem because there is not much technical information on the podium (procesor,encoder,,,)

Is there even any point in comparing this characteristic? What aspect is it supposed to impact?

 

[Deleted member 197115]

Hello everyone,

The SC2 specifications mention a "Max torque slew rate" of 4.8 Nm/ms for the Sport and 8 Nm/ms for the Pro.

I have no idea about how this characteristic translates to the feel and even whether it is of any interest at all.

Do anyone have an idea about how DD1/DD2 compare to SC2 in this regard?

My understanding that it specifies how fast and precise the motor reacts to input.
SC2 software also features Slew Rate filter that you can use to slow motor down and make it more "lethargic".

Slew Rate (Electric Motors)

10.4.6 Position sensors generate data based on the resolution of the sensor, multiplied by the interpolation factor of the interface electronics. The maximum slew, or tracking rate, of an RDC is limited to & of the resolver reference frequency. For […]

what-when-how.com

 

[Tatestar1984]

i actually had both the dd2 and then purchased the Sc2 pro. Imho the Sc2 is miles better, in smoothness, response and a very good selection of paramenters in filters and effects to dial in ffb to your liking. never regretted my switch at all. infact i was dissappointed with the dd2 when i setup it up and started using for a good period of time. the QR was terrible and too much movement too

 

[TedBrosby-]

My understanding that it specifies how fast and precise the motor reacts to input.
SC2 software also features Slew Rate filter that you can use to slow motor down and make it more "lethargic".

Slew Rate (Electric Motors)

10.4.6 Position sensors generate data based on the resolution of the sensor, multiplied by the interpolation factor of the interface electronics. The maximum slew, or tracking rate, of an RDC is limited to & of the resolver reference frequency. For […]

what-when-how.com

This is a good answer, but not just precision, also accuracy of speed changes and maximum speed accuracy.
I read about this a few days ago and from what I understand:
The simple meaning of it is motor speed as a function of voltage versus time.
A motor can have a lower slew rate and still be very precise, but it just has a lower limit on how far the precision goes.
Slew Rate = ∆V / ∆T
Voltage input is a square wave. I imagine the slew rate filters probably apply curvature to the function to make the change in voltage feel more natural. It probably has a huge impact on FFB during collisions and reactive forces.
Interesting note - a higher slew rate means a stepper motor can move at a higher speed while also being synchronous with the command pulses.

I've been reading a lot about these now that I have the DD buy bug...

 

[Konnichy]

Then if I summarize your replies, it would mean a better max torque slew rate helps in reactivity and raises the threshold from which the wheel cannot keep up with input data and starts acting unpredictably.

It would be interesting to know if the higher value of the Pro is noticeable in practice, and how the Fanatec counterparts compare in this regard.

 

[TedBrosby-]

Then if I summarize your replies, it would mean a better max torque slew rate helps in reactivity and raises the threshold from which the wheel cannot keep up with input data and starts acting unpredictably.

It would be interesting to know if the higher value of the Pro is noticeable in practice, and how the Fanatec counterparts compare in this regard.

It wouldn't act unpredictably lol. They have software limitations that are probably safely below the servo motor's maximum slew rate.
Also, you won't use the max slew rate anyway. Anything above 2 Nm/s and I wonder if you're Captain America or something.

 

[Deleted member 197115]

It wouldn't act unpredictably lol. They have software limitations that are probably safely below the servo motor's maximum slew rate.
Also, you won't use the max slew rate anyway. Anything above 2 Nm/s and I wonder if you're Captain America or something.

My experience at least with Slew Rate filter suggests otherwise, as drop in micro details and wheel reactivity is VERY noticeable. But I am not sure if filter simulates lower physical slew rate accurately.

 

[TedBrosby-]

My experience at least with Slew Rate filter suggests otherwise, as drop in micro details and wheel reactivity is VERY noticeable. But I am not sure if filter simulates lower physical slew rate accurately.

Oh I was talking about the slew rate itself, not the filter.
I’m sure the filter makes a difference but I’ve never used it since I don’t own an SC2.
Do you use a slew rate higher than 2 Nm/s? Actually I’m curious what the slew rate is that SC2 users dial in.
Oh, looks like Sport can’t set the slew rate. I guess this was a hot topic before.

 

[akeem127]

Oh I was talking about the slew rate itself, not the filter.
I’m sure the filter makes a difference but I’ve never used it since I don’t own an SC2.
Do you use a slew rate higher than 2 Nm/s? Actually I’m curious what the slew rate is that SC2 users dial in.
Oh, looks like Sport can’t set the slew rate. I guess this was a hot topic before.

The Sport does have adjustable slew rate up to 4.8nm/ms. I have one. Vendors got this information wrong initially and never updated their store pages.

 

[Deleted member 197115]

Oh I was talking about the slew rate itself, not the filter.
I’m sure the filter makes a difference but I’ve never used it since I don’t own an SC2.
Do you use a slew rate higher than 2 Nm/s? Actually I’m curious what the slew rate is that SC2 users dial in.
Oh, looks like Sport can’t set the slew rate. I guess this was a hot topic before.

Most don't touch it. I think some iRacing folks were trying to experiment with it to tame violent wheel behavior during crashes, but I don't think it stuck.
But they've probably tried everything under the sun trying to fix it on wheel side.
I used to have Small Mige before, not sure what slew rate it had, but SC2 Pro motor is in different class altogether.
Not like I wasn't happy with Mige, quite contrary, but it took SC2 to realize how raw and crude it was in comparison, not sure though how much of that comes from the software/fw and how much from motor itself and how much higher slew rate contributes to that. Perhaps Beano is a better person to comment on that.

All I know that Granite Devices had tested a bunch of servo motors with intent to publish results for everyone, but while testing took place, the publishing part never happened. But shortly after that SC2 was announced with these new motors instead of more commonly used in SC1 and OSW Mige.

Which is the best Direct Drive motor? Simucube developers will find out

Hello Drivers! SIMUCUBE developer team has been testing and comparing different precision industrial grade motors to find out how far the direct drive force feedback experience can be stretched. We have collected data of over 30 motors, ran calculations on them, and in-hand tested dozen of the...

community.granitedevices.com

 

[Deleted member 197115]

I think Tommi from Granite Devices team more or less sumarized it here.

Which is the best Direct Drive motor? Simucube developers will find out

That’s funny, thanks for the laugh The Sport and Pro versions are excellent in terms off efficiency (we can use smaller power supply, user also saves of electricity), in terms on torque density, (we can make smaller user friendly package around the motor) and also have very low cogging and...

community.granitedevices.com

 

[Deleted member 197115]

The Sport does have adjustable slew rate up to 4.8nm/ms. I have one. Vendors got this information wrong initially and never updated their store pages.

Yeah, there was some confusion on different models supported filters. This page contains most up to date comparison spreadsheet

 

[TedBrosby-]

Yeah, there was some confusion on different models supported filters. This page contains most up to date comparison spreadsheet
View attachment 387553

That definitely had an impact on people choosing Pro over Sport, even if Pro is a better value proposition.
Sport compared to Pro: 60% of Slew Rate, 68% of Torque Max, 87% of price.
Pro compared to Ultimate: 84% of Slew Rate, 78% of Torque Max, 46% of price.

Interesting enough, apparently the small MIGE is also an inrunner with high slew rate. Has anyone done a physical comparison? I really wish Barry from SRG would do heads up comparison. The last time he did it, 5/6 of his invited drivers preferred the OSW SC1 and that was on 2017 firmware. SC2 might have physically similar properties compared to the MIGE in SC1 builds (maybe closer to Lenz/big MIGE because of efficiency and lower power draw? Small MIGE has a higher winding resistance than Lenz or Large MIGE but the bigger motors were limited by the power output of the IONI Board).
It’d be interesting to know what’s better due to the motor, the electronics (dual processor and higher energy ceiling plus efficiency of the power delivery system), or the firmware improvements.

 

[Deleted member 197115]

There is no OSW SC1, sorry pet peeve.
SC2 and SC1 are two different systems, different servo controllers, everything.
You can't compare motors alone and what that comparison would be good for if you are using the whole system.
Good luck with your build. DD esp. first will blow your mind.

Although honestly it's quite a rarity for someone starting brand new SC1 build these days.
And it's a misconception that SC1 is open, community driven project, it's all ended after Argon builds phased out. It's all commercial and depends on GD supplied FW and SW, and frankly not sure how long that is going to last. Recent update and all the issues seem to be burning a lot of Mika's time.