Pimax 5K+ spotted after a 16 month hiberation.... First impressions

[anton_Chez]

Well, it's here. The Pimax 5K+ headset I backed on Kickstarter in October 2017 has finally made it from the depths of hell and everywhere else in between to my house in Australia. What a ride it's been.

To start, the box is fairly nice, nothing too fancy but definitely of Rift quality, nothing flimsy or cheap. The smell is actually like a brand new paid of shoes! I'd say that's the padding. Anyway who cares about the box, hey?

Upon fitting the strap, I was horrified at the comfort. Only after I messed around with it a little bit did I feel I could actually make it work. It's not as intuitive as the Rift but it's workable for me at least. One thing that's immediately struck me is I've nearly got my nose poking through the lenses from the inside out. My face is literally ON the lenses. We are going to have to order custom cushions. It's insane that they've left this unaddressed. I think additional face cushions are a stretch goal reward but I've not see them being any different to the standard one. We need thicker pads, Pimax. I have a small face and a not so overly large nose and I'm struggling. If it turns out my IPD is able to have the lenses moved to the outside of the headset I might just get away with it.

The strap does tighten on your face pretty well. I did not expect that based on other feedback. It's not ski mask type like the Rift but it does have the ability to stick to my face and feel pressure so there's some modular possibilities there especially for larger faces that won't need to tighten the straps as much. Between the side and top strap you should be able to get the HMD sitting nice and flat on your face without any tilting at least while sitting down.

I've yet to power it on so I'll go and do that now. One thing you'll notice is you need an additional power point for this. It comes with an external power source that plugs into the PC side of the cable. It isn't recognised by the PC unless you power it on.

 

[anton_Chez]

Andrew you are spot on I think. I was running different SS settings and my fps was down around the 60 mark but not hitting the 64hz native the Pimax allows for. So but continuing to drive with the poor frame rate (I was just by myself and having some fun with the car) I think I may have caused this myself. I went back later and just slightly changed the IPD setting but was running a stable 64hz and then 72hz later on and I felt much better, even after demolishing my eyes just an hour or so before.

I think it still has something to do with a less that optimal IPD setting but the hz would have definitely made the most difference. As I said I've driven in it quite a bit but never had it happen so quickly.

 

[anton_Chez]

To add to that, I think as well that even thought the 64hz and 72hz modes for the most part look completely acceptable and to me have barely any difference to running the native 90hz, I think at the beginning at least your eyes may suffer a little bit more while they at least try to adjust to it. It's one of those things that you don't notice straight away because everything is nice and smooth.

 

[anton_Chez]

So another update after a fair bit of trial and error, testing and official usage in league races, including a 2 hour enduro in the 911 GT3 can @ Brands in AC.

I love this headset. I'm actually stunned at the amount of options I have at my disposal when tinkering with different games, settings, supported features and performance requirements. It's amazing. My eye strain is GONE. Probably a combination of running higher hz and also tweaking the IPD slightly from what it was on. Comfort is acceptable with a slight mod to the stock face cushion (for me) and I am now about to test the new face cushions I've ordered and received which should give me slightly more clearance to the eyes.

OK so the real discovery here is the ability to get the games looking AWESOME while still running almost like they look like being at 90hz. An example? rFactor 2. It requires 'parallel projections' to be enabled to operate correctly in the HMD. The problem? This setting TANKS performance. Bad. Even worse is that it seems to affect the smart smoothing feature (Brainwarp, or ASW, essentially) giving a very poor quality image and a sub optimal frame timing (appears to not be smooth like warping should provide). After lowering the SteamVR SS value to 40% in an attempt to maintain at least 64hz without smoothing, I realised something needed to change here. The image was so poor, at least to me. At Red Bull Ring last night, the view is so far off into the distance there that it was very distracting and made it hard to sight corners and overall made the driving experience very trying.

After the race, I tweaked a few things. First, I retried enabling Brainwarp, but ONLY with the hz mode at 90. This ensures I am going to always be at 45hz plus the additional warp frames which is basically Rift mode. Previously I discarded 90hz as a possibility and went with 72hz with smoothing. The issue with this is that 72hz warps to 36hz plus warp frames. In rF2 with parallel projections, this is unacceptable and the two don't mix well, not to mention that sim racing being a fast paced experience needs slightly more than 36hz warped, in my opinion. To my surprise, 45hz warped was almost indistinguishable from the 72hz native (non smoothed) mode. It also was 'artifact-free', at least from my viewpoint in the cockpit, which also amazed me. Knowing that I can now run 90hz with smoothing enabled with next to no ill-effects, I turned to another cost saving feature: FOV.

Changing to Small FOV in the PiTool gives you about 25% LESS pixels required to render. You also lose a decent but not completely game changing about of peripheral vision. To me, in a sim racing title, this isn't a deal breaker as we have helmet obstruction to think about as well compared to real life, so it makes it acceptable (to me) to sacrifice a very wide potential FOV for a slightly smaller one, which is still much better than the Rift. Again, this experience was completely acceptable to me, saving me performance which I can now pour back into the initial problem that started this whole fiasco. Image quality.

With so much processing requirement now saved with the reduction in FOV and also the enabling of Brainwarp, I turned to the SteamVR SS slider. Leaving PiTool at 1.0 as you normally should (Steam and PiTool share the adjustment in render quality, so changing both is counter intuitive), I worked my way up from 40% SS to 100% SS. A quick driving test showed a MASSIVE improvement in image quality while maintaining a silky smooth experience. The smile on my face after seeing this must have been completely STUPID. Knowing via fpsVR that I still had some GPU usage up my sleeve, I went up to 150%. Not as much of a difference, as at 100 it pretty much cleared everything that was wrong with it during the race, but still an improvement. Still running at a locked 45hz (except for the garage which is always the case) I tried my luck with 175%. This is where I started hitting dips in the frame rate to where not even the Brainwarped 45hz could keep up. I still had some GPU usage left but as VR users know, it doesn't always work the way you'd think between frame rate and disposable GPU usage.

My experience went from intolerable pre-race specifically with rF2, Pimax and the requirement of parallel projections to be enabled, to one of the best VR experiences I've had TO DATE. The image quality is STUNNING and the smoothness of the experience has me worried that it was just a fluke last night and something's going to be different when I go back to it!

A great example of how with the new Pimax 5K and 8K HMD's, there are options GALORE to be explored and you are almost guaranteed to find a happy middle ground between image quality, smoothness and the output potential of your GPU. In theory I could now return to the Normal FOV and just turn the slider down to 100% and logically receive the same or similar performance with slightly less but still completely acceptable image quality. I think for the time being I'll run it the way I have it and see how other tracks fair. We're at Nords on Monday night so this should be a good test for it.

 

[Deleted member 197115]

In a deep respect I am taking my hat off as even reading through this makes my head hurt.

 

[anton_Chez]

Haha you clearly haven't followed my threads, then. Most of the regulars are grabbing a bucket of popcorn after they scroll only couple of lines.

They know what's coming after the "So....." part.

 

[RCHeliguy]

Haha you clearly haven't followed my threads, then. Most of the regulars are grabbing a bucket of popcorn after they scroll only couple of lines.

They know what's coming after the "So....." part.

What you are proving is that software optimization for decent performance is a bit of a bitch.
The hardware works, but it is a bit far off the mark from plug in play and that will scare many off.

Of course if you are happy, it doesn't matter who is wetting themselves in fear.

And I grab a beer! Tonight it was a Terrapin Moo-Hoo Stout

 

[anton_Chez]

Yes but my point is, Pimax is not for the average consumer. It's a premium product aimed at enthusiasts and there's NOTHING that the enthusiast crowd loves more than performance and options.

The new Pimax HMD's have both in great capacity compared to other long standing offerings. We aren't using PSVR, after all.

 

[Steve D]

@anton_Chez Don't ever change matie! Hugely appreciate the level of detail you go in to, which allows others to make decisions based purely on information relating directly to the hobby we love so much! Fair play to you!

I've been sitting on the fence with regards the Pimax. But between your good-self and @RobertR1, I'm starting to wobble.

My only concern is how well it will work with SFX-100 motion using a lighthouse set up, which I understand can't be mounted to the chassis. I know you've had issues with external mounting, which you've been working to resolve and there's a possible solution using the Vive tracker. As you know my Rift sensor is rig-mounted and I love the immersion that provides especially now that my occasional re-centering issues seem to be a thing of the past after well over a month of complete stability. And once the HMD is strapped to my face, I'm absolutely absorbed anyway so I'm almost loathe to make any changes, despite the clear gains of upgrading.

Sell it to me buddy!!

 

[RobertR1]

Steve, just wait until fall. They need to sort out some build quality issues and get their peripherals out. I love the experience but man, it needs quality control.

My hope is that some of the components going into their new ruggezied model become the part of the standard package. That’s what is needed.

Also if they get more support and not need parallel projections, the experience will be a lot more fluid.

 

[anton_Chez]

Agree with Rob there apart from one thing. That is, hoping that some of the rugged parts make their way into the standard build. They absolutely NEED to make their way into it, with the things I am seeing, it's not acceptable to sell a more premium version of a premium product just in case the regular premium one breaks. Unacceptable and it needs attention, ASAP.

That said, mine's been absolutely perfect inside and out so I am a very lucky boy, for once

The tracking issue is sorted now. I have been running the base station and once it's tracking and has the HMD in view, the driving experience is flawless. The smoothness that is delivered absolutely demolished the Rift experience no matter the situation and having it mounted static is a non issue. My problems were coming from my head being bashed around by erratic motion forces making their way into the seat and then banging the back of my head. I'm working my way through that now but can safely say that I have no intention of buying and mounting a tracker now, like I thought I needed to before. I did a 2hr enduro at Brands, as I was saying, and there are some pretty decent elevation changes there. At the beginning, I felt myself needing to adjust slightly but after a while, it became very natural and at no stage did I lose sight of corners and apexes due to the elevation change. For me, that was a great test. Even during that race, my head was bouncing around everywhere and I still ended up getting used to it. It all depends on how 'realistic' you want your ride to be. I'm sure in a race car the head is being thrown around quite a bit, too, but the ability to maintain steady vision without another device providing the world view is probably a little easier.

I removed the Rift sensor today. It's going back in the box, but I will hold onto it for a little longer just in case anything happens. But for me, it's done. I was going to compare the bouncing with wearing the Rift but once I nailed the culprit, turned off that effect and found the ride pretty much perfect, I had no reason to. It would have done the same thing.

 

[RCHeliguy]

I've said many times that the full height racing seats make ZERO sense for VR use or sim use in general since you are not going to get whiplash on a sim no matter how good your motion system is. I know people love their real racing seats, but this is one application where having the real thing is a hindrance.

I'm not surprised that the tracking with a base station is flawless. That is the one thing that the SteamVR 2.0 hardware absolutely delivers on. The same is true for hand controller tracking. Absolutely flawless, setup once and forget it, no extra USB cables and absolutely crazy good tracking.

I still believe that the best VR experience would be with passive radiators, if the Knuckles would get released and headsets like the Pimax and it's competitors would step up.

Fingers crossed that the Steam VR 2.0 enthusiast systems keep coming. I'd love nothing more than to have a set of class leading Knuckles controllers, base stations and an amazing headset. Remember that this is an open system, so you can mix and match manufacturers. Put a set of base stations up and leave them forever. Get the best hand controllers by whichever manufacturer. Get the best headset by whichever manufacturer. Upgrade each piece independently.

One more thing. Some motion systems use a tracker attached to a moving rig to keep everything outside the vehicle separate from the vehicle motion itself. This includes turning.
https://www.vive.com/us/vive-tracker/

I realize that the SFX-100 software probably doesn't support this yet, but other motions systems have used this and this is something that inside out tracking will never be able to handle.

 

[anton_Chez]

Not sure what else you could put on a chassis, it's not like we can strap a bar stool to it...
The seat is fine, it's my motion software tuning that I am tweaking. It's not about getting whiplash, it's about feeling like you're in a proper race seat. The seat helps tremendously with motion as does a proper harness. Of course you're not going to crash and hurt yourself (which can happen with a DD wheel for what it's worth) but the feeling of being strapped in helps with the motion cues.

 

[RCHeliguy]

Not sure what else you could put on a chassis, it's not like we can strap a bar stool to it...
The seat is fine, it's my motion software tuning that I am tweaking. It's not about getting whiplash, it's about feeling like you're in a proper race seat. The seat helps tremendously with motion as does a proper harness. Of course you're not going to crash and hurt yourself (which can happen with a DD wheel for what it's worth) but the feeling of being strapped in helps with the motion cues.

A bar stool may be going a bit too far. I've got a seat out of a car with the headrest removed so there is no interference with an HMD.

 

[anton_Chez]

But it's not just the headrest. My head moves because my back is being jolted and that transfers to neck and then obviously the HMD. I actually sat off the back of the seat, completely forward and this pretty much fixed it. So unless you want to have zero contact with the back of the seat, the solution lies elsewhere.

Lucky for me, I found it.

 

[Deleted member 197115]

I've said many times that the full height racing seats make ZERO sense for VR use or sim use in general since you are not going to get whiplash on a sim no matter how good your motion system is. I know people love their real racing seats, but this is one application where having the real thing is a hindrance.

Good back and lateral support help even in stationary rig when you deal with high force feedback forces or exert pressure on high resistance load celled brake pedal.
Plus in our never ending pursuit for immersion and realism, what else can feel more like a real race car seat than a real racing seat?

 

[RCHeliguy]

Good back and lateral support help even in stationary rig when you deal with high force feedback forces or exert pressure on high resistance load celled brake pedal.
Plus in our never ending pursuit for immersion and realism, what else can feel more like a real race car seat than a real racing seat?

What part of that requires the seat back to rise above your shoulders ?

I never suggested that having back support was a bad thing and I agree with you about needing something to push back on when you are braking.

A worst case scenario is one of those seats with the huge wrap around head areas. It simply makes no sense when being used with VR.

 

[Deleted member 197115]

May be you are talking specific race seat, the ones I've owned and tried did not interfere with head movement at all, VR or not. And all had above shoulders back support.

 

[RCHeliguy]

May be you are talking specific race seat, the ones I've owned and tried did not interfere with head movement at all, VR or not. And all had above shoulders back support.

You mean above shoulders neck support, right? That's the part that is completely unnecessary.

 

[rikirk]

Such an odd and off topic debate. Shoulders and back bone are the point of pressure for the correct ergonomic and minimize trouble after hours of intense driving. If using motion headrest is a plus.

Anyway, happy to announce my 8k got finally fixed by the engineers at Pimax (trying to think positive here) and will report here my findings as soon as I can get my hands on it.

 

[Mr Latte]

Interesting read, thanks for the feedback and in-depth views.

Can you break this down to individual sims on how well it performs and then the settings used/preferred that you discover. Curious what FOV is used and what in some cases trade-offs you find using to ensure quality over FOV.

Whats the potential pros/cons to this compared to the upcoming high res HP model?
I guess we have to wait more to see what its own software options enable too and how suitable it may be for sim racing?