Pimax 5K+ spotted after a 16 month hiberation.... First impressions

[anton_Chez]

Well, it's here. The Pimax 5K+ headset I backed on Kickstarter in October 2017 has finally made it from the depths of hell and everywhere else in between to my house in Australia. What a ride it's been.

To start, the box is fairly nice, nothing too fancy but definitely of Rift quality, nothing flimsy or cheap. The smell is actually like a brand new paid of shoes! I'd say that's the padding. Anyway who cares about the box, hey?

Upon fitting the strap, I was horrified at the comfort. Only after I messed around with it a little bit did I feel I could actually make it work. It's not as intuitive as the Rift but it's workable for me at least. One thing that's immediately struck me is I've nearly got my nose poking through the lenses from the inside out. My face is literally ON the lenses. We are going to have to order custom cushions. It's insane that they've left this unaddressed. I think additional face cushions are a stretch goal reward but I've not see them being any different to the standard one. We need thicker pads, Pimax. I have a small face and a not so overly large nose and I'm struggling. If it turns out my IPD is able to have the lenses moved to the outside of the headset I might just get away with it.

The strap does tighten on your face pretty well. I did not expect that based on other feedback. It's not ski mask type like the Rift but it does have the ability to stick to my face and feel pressure so there's some modular possibilities there especially for larger faces that won't need to tighten the straps as much. Between the side and top strap you should be able to get the HMD sitting nice and flat on your face without any tilting at least while sitting down.

I've yet to power it on so I'll go and do that now. One thing you'll notice is you need an additional power point for this. It comes with an external power source that plugs into the PC side of the cable. It isn't recognised by the PC unless you power it on.

 

[Gary Warke]

I sold my vive pro with gear vr lens mod last week and picked up a pimax 5k+ in its place for same money. I mostly play flight sims but spend some time in project cars 2.
I actually find I can play most games in large fov setting allowing the brainwarp to kick in if I drop to 45fps.
The large fov is the only advantage of this headset and tbh I bought too much into the hype and therefore wasn't blown away by it but still that's why I feel it's important to maximise this in games.
I feel in every other dept it's inferior to my previous headset (comfort, clarity, vibrant colours, sde) and new oculus will probably be comparable to what I had before.
Of course I already had base stations and controllers so I was able to save there. It's probably only worth upgrading from old vive, oculus users probably better waiting for rift S.
Just my subjective opinion.

 

[Furnace Inferno]

Spent some time with it tonight both with adjusting fitting on the face and also testing some performance which I'm sure a lot of you are dying to know about.

First off, I've been getting more comfortable with it in its standard form the more I put in on and take it off. I've got the straps pretty much where I want them. It is firm, doesn't move much (although I have yet to test it with motion) and in some cases I don't feel the nose pinch I still want the face cushion as this will solve the nose thing and also the fact your eyes are just so close to the lenses. Wouldn't care but my dirty contact lens in my left eye actually left marks on the 5K+ lens. Just too close. You don't want to be touching them. I have enough comfort issues with contact lenses as it is.

Secondly, performance. I just used the AI driver in AC to test the exact settings from CM as I was using for the Rift. I changed nothing. PiTool render quality at 1.0, so just stock sampling which is recommended to stick with. The SteamVR render quality slider makes a difference with Pimax headsets and I tested this at 60% and 80%. To me, from fpsVR real time graphs there wasn't much of a difference. Around 65 - 70% GPU usage for both although I'm sure the 80% had more creeps up above that. Either way I had headroom. I could probably run 100 but apparently it's a good way to save some performance without losing too much image quality as long as you always leave PiTool at 1.0. I couldn't tell much of a difference at all and if I blind tested it, I think I'd fail the guess.

The kicker is that I tested both 72hz and 90hz modes and both are achieving locked frame rates in the conditions I tested under. Granted they weren't the most demanding, but I had to start somewhere. 90hz looked like it still was only using around 70% GPU for most of the lap, at a normal FOV of 150 degrees. Another great thing is that the 72hz mode is actually almost identical to the 90hz mode so you can run this and save like 20% juice on the GPU for barely a noticeable impact. Funny thing is that in this mode, the GPU usage didn't look that much lower than at 90hz but I still can't be sure how fpsVR is reporting the actual usage. Might have to run a GPUz test just to cross reference.

Initial thoughts are pretty good. This was at Mugello with the Ferrari formula 1 car so you are bound to get worse performance with mod cars and tracks. But, my settings include 4x AA (with MFAA enabled in Nvidia panel), maximum world details, PP enabled on low and moderate other details. I could possibly reduce the 4x AA now with the higher native res and save some more juice. Oculus really needed that to help with jaggies and shimmering lines but hopefully Pimax won't need as much to smooth that out.

I think I'll be OK performance wise especially with the various hz options and a nice implementation of brainwarp. The distortion and blurring most people are seeing in their periphery are also greatly reduced for me while on track, perhaps I have aligned the unit on my face in such a way that helps reduce it. I only noticed when I remembered 'hey wasn't there meant to be blur on the edges....?'

I think with a bit of time, some custom face cushions and a LOT of patience, I will come to enjoy the 5K+ and hopefully can make it my daily driver once all the bits and pieces for it arrive.

Just as an FYI, the last time I had MFAA forced on in the control panel it introduced a ton of aliasing on the rift both in Oculus Home and in-games. The difference between on and of was insane so might be worth turning it off if you are seeing a lot especially as 4xMSAA + MFAA uses more performance than 4xMSAA as it tries to simulate 8xMSAA.

Personally I’m waiting for a proper headset upgrade, meaning high res, higher fov, foveated rendering with variable focal length. Until then the small upgrades aren’t worth it to me especially as I’ll need to upgrade my entire PC.

 

[rikirk]

@anton_Chez I guess no head is born equal, but if you can try with the main strap right below your nape so it holds the weight and use the laterals to lock it in place.

Coming from the Vive, I am happy with the 8k impressive visual quality and FOV.

Cannot use it with rf2 because of the double eye effect even with the correct setting in pitool.

AC is gorgeous, ACC is too demanding and I have a Nvidia 2080ti coming for the weekend, although I might be stuck with work.

Will follow up when I can test tracking using the nlm v3.

 

[anton_Chez]

Regarding immersion and all that, I have not raced with it bar a couple of laps in rFactor 2's Aussie Legends. I haven't got the time to actually spend time with it just yet. I have however made some modifications to the face cushion and already it feels MILES better than before. Eyes a little further away from the lenses, nose not being crushed into oblivion although I can still feel a slight pressure on it. I can further add to what I've done which should eliminate that completely. I'll chip away at it for sure bit by bit and hopefully in a few weeks I might even try a proper race with it.

But, there is a clear improvement to the overall image and the FOV is noticeably better than the RIft. It's not as mind blowing as I thought it might be but it's certainly there. Again I need to have everything set up properly but as of now I am hopeful it will replace the Rift. The Virtual Desktop in the Rift is one feature I'll surely miss. Is there an easy and viable replacement to use with Pimax, anyone?

 

[anton_Chez]

I've been messing with the Pimax over the weekend and am really enjoying the new experience. Again, not really driving with it but more finding the balance between FOV values, Steam VR resolution slider settings and also the brainwarp and various hz options in the PiTool software. It's comfortable as now, with my little home made mod so I am actually able to wear it and test all these things out properly.

I'm running some pretty intense visuals here. At the moment I'm running around 30M pixels with the 1080Ti and in AC at Spa I am managing to keep the frames to a brainwarped 45fps. The warping in the 5K+ is surprisingly good. You barely notice any artifacting anywhere and with the AI driver it's pretty jerky to begin with so I'm sure with a real person driving the experience would be even better. I have had some issues with the warping at 72hz (I've not tried the 64hz mode) with the frames locking down at 36 for that mode, but these are pretty low frames we're talking about now. I'd be more inclined and actually intend to use that mode when I am guaranteed a locked 72hz, with NO warping. If you're going to warp, use 90hz and warp to 45. It's a nice experience in AC. Note that even if you run with smoothing completely disabled, you get a far better experience than the Rift running an unlocked frame rate. Driving at 50fps in the Pimax with high graphics settings and resolution is a marked improvement over anything the Rift delivers at a non native hz (so 90 or an ASW induced 45). The great thing with Pimax is you get a tonne of options which will suit many hardware levels and also various preferences from different users. You could effectively have 3 or 4 different profile setups for each of your sims and each one could target a specific goal. Image, frame rate, one warping and one not, one lower native hz, maxed out graphics that at least hits a warped 45hz. There's so much to play with.

So a little test for anyone interested. I did a 2hr enduro late night at Spa in the 911. I have been using that combo just to test with the AI driver. Coming out of the first turn, the hairpin, onto the straight leading up Eau Rouge, I can see the top of the exit of Eau Rouge from the exit of the hairpin, CLEARLY. As far as the horizon lets you see relative to the height your car sits at exiting the hairpin. See if you can do that in the Rift. I can't remember even though I raced in it last night. It would be a good test to compare.

Not sure how reducing the amount of pixels rendered will change this but I think it's safe to say that spotting corner entries should be much easier than in first gen headsets.

 

[RichardHessels]

I have just ordered the Samsung odyssey plus from the us hope the reviews I have read live up to it.

You will love it, great headset. just make sure to not play in the dark, as the inside out tracking likes some contrast to figure out where you are looking at. But it's great not to be bound by a base station and see everything much more clear.

 

[RobertR1]

You will love it, great headset. just make sure to not play in the dark, as the inside out tracking likes some contrast to figure out where you are looking at. But it's great not to be bound by a base station and see everything much more clear.

Yep. Can’t emphasize the dark part enough. You’ll need a decent amount of light in the room but yes the visual upgrade over the rift is well worth it.

 

[RCHeliguy]

It "probably" makes sense to wait for the Rift S if you've waited this long to upgrade. Right now Rifts are the easiest to make work well and native Oculus support has historically meant faster frame rates. The Odyssey is about 50% heavier than the Rift and has some comfort and hand tracking issues. Unreal Engine 4.21 now has native WMR support and software titles are eventually getting rebuilt to take advantage of that. I just saw a notice on one my games that a new build was in beta with WMR support but there is Oculus support for everything right now. While things are improving for WMR users, titles like Dirt Rally 2.0 will have native Oculus support and require using revive or some other means of making Vive and WMR headsets work.

Just one point of view, but as my rig is getting more and more complex, I like some things to just work.

 

[anton_Chez]

Just one point of view, but as my rig is getting more and more complex, I like some things to just work.

I hope for your sake you're not relying on anything Oculus to fulfill that request....

 

[RobertR1]

Despite my efforts to cancel my Pimax, looks like it'll be here tomorrow....

 

[anton_Chez]

Despite my efforts to cancel my Pimax, looks like it'll be here tomorrow....

LOL. I waited 15 months for anything to get here and now others are spewing it's coming!

I reckon you'll like it mate. I guess it depends on what you expect from it and also the comfort factor which cannot be understated. I just did a race with mine. A proper one. Apart from the cable feeling a bit rubbery and getting caught on my pit and shoulder harness (I'll cover this with some smooth material or something, maybe route it differently) I had no desire to take it off, move it (while running motion) or feel uncomfortable in it.

After my mod, that is. A very small one that anyone can do should you feel the need.

 

[RobertR1]

LOL. I waited 15 months for anything to get here and now others are spewing it's coming!

I reckon you'll like it mate. I guess it depends on what you expect from it and also the comfort factor which cannot be understated. I just did a race with mine. A proper one. Apart from the cable feeling a bit rubbery and getting caught on my pit and shoulder harness (I'll cover this with some smooth material or something, maybe route it differently) I had no desire to take it off, move it (while running motion) or feel uncomfortable in it.

After my mod, that is. A very small one that anyone can do should you feel the need.

So you're putting regular headphones on top of your head along with the pimax?

 

[anton_Chez]

Ear buds. I only use ear buds when racing. Either bluetooth ones that tend to sound HORRIBLE in Windows 10 at times, or just ones connected to the headphone amp on the sound card. So they are pretty unobtrusive. Nothing extra over my head. I do the same with the Rift. Can't stand on ear headphones while racing.

 

[RCHeliguy]

Ear buds. I only use ear buds when racing. Either bluetooth ones that tend to sound HORRIBLE in Windows 10 at times, or just ones connected to the headphone amp on the sound card. So they are pretty unobtrusive. Nothing extra over my head. I do the same with the Rift. Can't stand on ear headphones while racing.

This is very much a personal preference issue. I've always considered the built in headphones a real asset and want built in headphones on any headset I get.

I like being able to just grab the headset and pop it on quickly, and when I have friends over, no one would want to share ear buds.

Audio quality is a very relative thing. I think the Rift's headphones are actually pretty good. That said, I've gone over the deep end over the years on audio equipment, so I have a reference point of what things can sound like.

 

[anton_Chez]

Not bothered by the quality. The HMD is already enough heat for me. I like the blockout I get from buds, I like the sound I get from a nice pair that I have. I like that they are way cooler than foam covering my ears. Rift phones are good, surprisingly good. Pimax has a built in mic which is actually way more important to me now that I do lots of league racing than anything audio related. The Rift mic is godlike. I haven't tested the Pimax one yet but as long as it's decent I'm happy. Audio strap comes later for backers but I don't really care for it. Rather some more thicker face cushions and WIRELESS!

 

[anton_Chez]

I've just had the single best experience with my 5K+ since I've tried it. Guess which sim......

Raceroom! Christ almighty that thing has come alive! I mean, to me, it's always been one of the more beautiful sims to drive in although many knock it for its DX9 graphics engine. Seriously though, I challenge anyone to say anything about it after driving an open cockpit prototype around Suzuka in the beaming sunshine of mid morning. That ferris wheel is absolutely stunning with this increased FOV and resolution. All at a super smooth 72 or 90hz, take your pick, it doesn't matter, they both look, feel and run the same!

I think it's safe to say, that it was worth the wait.

Adios, Rifty boy.

 

[anton_Chez]

Just some thoughts I had in the rF2 Discord I figured might be useful to someone here thinking of buying one, or already having one and wanting some advice:

You can exceed the (SteamVR) cap but it only makes the achievable resolution higher. It doesn't allow you to actually run the resolution any better. I've never seen a number so high.
By removing the cap it allows you to push further than what the app previously allows. One thing is certain in graphics. You PAY for every single pixel you render. One way, or another. There's no escaping that. I've had some great results with the Pimax and my 1080Ti so I am very excited.

The thing with PiTool is that it is very transparent. It scales perfectly linearly with Steam VR. If you put Steam VR on 100%, and then put PiTool at 1.25 render quality, what happens to the resolution number in SteamVR is it becomes EXACTLY 125%. Perfectly linear. In other words, there's no reason to run PiTool at anything above 1.0. Because if you run it at 1.25, you have to turn SteamVR slider down to compensate. There is no free pixels here. Best to leave at 1.0 and use the more modular slider in Steam VR to tweak further. You want slightly less pixels? Run 90%. If you want slightly more, run 110%. You can't do that with PiTool, you can only move it in chunks of .25 which is effectively 25%. It's too much of an increase / decrease to achieve an optimal resolution.

I've found some very general settings for myself. Guidelines if you will. If I run 72 or 64hz modes, I turn smoothing completely off. I cannot drive at a warped 36hz. It's too bad. So i get my graphics settings and resolution as close to being able to run native 72 or 64hz as possible and live with the unsmoothed dips, as they are far more bearable than in the Rift. You barely notice them as long as they are only dropping 2-5 frames here and there. If I want max graphics, I can run 90hz WITH smoothing to make sure I am ALWAYS warping to 45hz. That is a smooth experience to me. Not as good as unwarped ANY hz, but acceptable and very driveable.

I will NEVER run Large FOV. The cost is simply too much to warrant its use. It's like 4M pixels per eye more to render than Normal FOV and that is with 100% Steam VR slider and 1.0 PiTool.
Small FOV is better than Rift and saves you a good chunk of render cost. If you want MAX graphics quality, use this setting. It's noticeably smaller than Normal but perfectly acceptable. I think with the face sitting so close to the lenses as well that it appears even better than it should.
SO, you guys can see I spend the ENTIRE day with my Pimax. These are my thoughts and findings that I've been so keen to both read about from others and share from my experiences. I hope some of you get something out of my wall of text.

 

[RCHeliguy]

The solution is simple. You just need two 2080Ti's in SLI. That's all

I think the key take away is that resolution gains do not come easy and existing PC hardware and the current game software and video card drivers aren't quite ready for any substantial resolution gain over the first gen VR HMD's at this point in time.

I'd like to think that the new RTX AI cores that handle uprezing could eventually be utilized to help with this issue and fill in the pixels to give us nice smooth frames. Unfortunately RTX cards are not even remotely being utilized fully at this point and very few of us have them. Hopefully by the time the 2nd generation of RTX cards hit the market, driver technology and software titles will have figured out how to best make use of the new pipelines.

 

[RobertR1]

@anton_Chez got mine also. What are your AC settings in pitools/steamVR/content manager?

Also any ini mods?

 

[anton_Chez]

Great to hear Rob. How's the fit on the face?

If VR supported SLI I'd have had 2 1080Ti's when they released. FFR (fixed foveated rendering) is already implemented for 20 series cards and is to come to 10 series cards soon. So when that happens I'm looking at around a 30% reduction in render cost, according to people who have tested it on RTX cards.

My settings for AC? I try to run at least 72hz mode. I find almost no difference between 90 and 72hz. I think the only way I'd know is if I looked in PiTool to check prior to driving. PiTool always on 1.0. SteamVR, I run around 90% I think. The number for me is around 15M pixels @ 72hz for a pretty locked experience. I turn smoothing off for any hz mode under 90. You don't want it on for 72 and 64 hz modes. In game, I run 2 x AA, Low PP effects, Maximum World Detail, 16x AF, and low to moderate everything else (smoke, mirrors, reflections, etc). No .ini mods at all from what I can remember. No custom shaders, just stock with a little saturation increase.