PC1 Pcars: A community divided

[Nathan Robinson]

Continuation of Part 1: http://www.racedepartment.com/forum/threads/banned-for-no-reason.47384/

Its hard to believe a game has taken a community over like this. Now with legal proceedings, its kind of become a joke for simmers. I have been at this a while now and have never seen a game invoke so much negative and positive reaction. May the discussions continue


Ps. While i continue to support pcars, i respect RD for allowing the freedom of expression to all its members.

 

[Flawl3ssVctry]

Community on WMD is such a Circlejerk with Ian the cock on top that I'm starting to hate this game and SMS company.

First you were badmouthing them at NoGrip, now here?

 

[Mapu]

Harsh words, but it is evident when you look around the sim racing communities and the behavior of certain people and investors of a certain project.

Well roar'd Lion.

 

[Marco80]

Community on WMD is such a Circlejerk with Ian the cock on top that I'm starting to hate this game and SMS company.

You're so right, that website is weird as hell, it's like the investors are in some brain washed cult, and Ian is an idiot, just read some of his msgs over the past year.

I've never seen anything like it in my life in the video game industry, it's like they have signed their soul to the devil and need to worship and stick up for the game no matter what, with such a closed mind towards the major superiority of other sims.

It's these ppl/investors and the company ethics and ways that make me hate the game, rather than the game itself (which still sucks btw if u are looking for a true sim).

 

[Mapu]

[...] It's these ppl/investors and the company ethics and ways that make me hate the game, rather than the game itself [...].

You hit the nail right on the head!

 

[Tom]

I've played pCARS just yesterday, after a long absence from the game, and it's not bad. Agreed it's a lot more arcade than rFactor2 but that's not a bad thing per se. Most of the community couldn't admit that and that might be a huge problem.

 

[InsaneOzzie]

Guys, I wasn't attempting to re-open the bitch session against pCars.

I was mearly stating that they have "NO REFUND POLICY". I live in Australia and it is law here that you have atleast a REFUND POLICY on ALL non-consumable GOODS, wether that is 14, 30 or 60 days is irrelevant, the fact is, a refund policy is law.

As this product is allegedly in ALPHA stage, and you have to pay a fee for access, I would think that providing a refund policy of some kind would be standard practice, and law in most countries. But I can only speak for Australian laws, maybe others from elsewhere on the globe could shed some light on this?

The fact I was refused a refund does'nt bother me, It was the fact I was unable to find any reference on WMD's site in regards to refunds, maybe I missed or overlooked something on their site that made reference to it, but still, it left me no option but to ask for one (had a feeling I would be refused anyway).

So now I will just have to wait another year, like everyone else, to see if the end result was worth the money and the time spent waiting for gold release, atleast I get a free copy of the final product with the seniors kit, so I dont need to hand over any more money in the future.

I dont comment on WMD's forums as I have nothing constructive or positive to say. Maybe having a negative rant about the product WOULD result in a refund and consequent banning, but thats not the tact I would prefer to take, settling things in a mature and amicable way is more my approach. Not that I'm going to persue it.

My advice to anyone looking at purchasing a Kit from WMD for pCARS is, way up the pros and cons before you part with your money. Are you prepared to wait for a product that may not end up being all its claimed to be.

Personally, I'll stick to AC and rF2.

 

[Tom]

Guys, I wasn't attempting to re-open the bitch session against pCars.

I was mearly stating that they have "NO REFUND POLICY". I live in Australia and it is law here that you have atleast a REFUND POLICY on ALL non-consumable GOODS, wether that is 14, 30 or 60 days is irrelevant, the fact is, a refund policy is law.

Stop, right here. After all, you need to check with a lawyer if in doubt.

However, please check if that particular Australian law is valid for digital goods as well. Germany has a very customer friendly environment, especially when it comes to refunds.

However, digital goods are not included but rather specifically excluded from all laws regarding refunds. Also, it might be that they're applying the law of the country the company is based in - that should be legal, the term "legal domicile" comes to mind.

 

[byverter]

I was refunded after 1 year without my permission... (bcs of ban) So all u need to do is reporting bugs and ask Ian and Andy to not using sarcasm all the time

 

[Marco80]

I was refunded after 1 year without my permission... (bcs of ban) So all u need to do is reporting bugs and ask Ian and Andy to not using sarcasm all the time

What a joke those 2 clowns are lol.

Personally, I'll stick to AC and rF2.

Dude, that's all you ever needed from the start. RFactor 2 and Assetto Corsa (and anything based on their engines), and possibly KartSim, will be on another level to anything else out there.

 

[Manuel1991]

Dude, that's all you ever needed from the start. RFactor 2 and Assetto Corsa (and anything based on their engines), and possibly KartSim, will be on another level to anything else out there.

I would say do not underestimate pcars. If you had asked me six months ago if pcars will be a a real sim, I would have said NO, just a better Shift. But now I belive pcars could be even better than rf2 at the end. What we drive now in pcars are cars with wrong tires (most have F1 tires), deactivated carcass flex (both directions) and the most important point: all cars have setups, which are designed for the old brush model and therefore really bad, because they had to compensate some flaws of the brush model (understeering).
And the funny thing is: The cars don't feel bad!!

I feel it's more about pcars vs. assetto corsa at the end. (But not for me, because i'll buy all of them)

 

[Mapu]

Sounds like a shabby excuse.

To your most "important" argument I can only say, even with a the worst setup, a car, in reality is still drivable and in a simulator it should still feel plausible and believable, also predictable.

So they had to compensate flaws? In other words, conceal short comings and bugs of the game engine? This doesn't make it any better, quite the opposite.

Well the cars may not "feel bad", but do they "feel good"? Are they predictable, even authentic? Answer that to yourself because I can't say that as long as there is a "third person" behind the wheel that seems to suffer from a parkinson syndrome.

Now I have to admit that I tried this game only once at somebody else computer a long time ago, but the feedback I get from the (most recent) videos, which by the way hide other problems, doesn't look like big improvements have been made.

And again, to get back on topic, I have to quote the main reason why I don't want to get involved into this project:

[...] It's these ppl/investors and the company ethics and ways that make me hate the game, rather than the game itself [...].

Well, "hate" is a strong term; better, their behavior leave a sour taste in my mouth and therefore I look for alternatives, or nothing at all.

 

[Senad Subasic]

Now I have to admit that I tried this game only once at somebody else computer a long time ago, but the feedback I get from the (most recent) videos, which by the way hide other problems, doesn't look like big improvements have been made.

And again, to get back on topic, I have to quote the main reason why I don't want to get involved into this project

LOL. So... you've tried it once, you don't want to get involved, so why not leave it be? Why the need for constant bashing? Goes for some other people here as well.

 

[Manuel1991]

Sounds like a shabby excuse.

So they had to compensate flaws? In other words, conceal short comings and bugs of the game engine? This doesn't make it any better, quite the opposite.

At first, what shabby excuse? It's not my game and I'm not one of the devs. This are just my observations regarding pcars. I just want to make clear now, that I'm neither on the pcars side nor on the rfactor or assetto corse side, just a normal sim- racer

About the flaws: They were in the brush model and well known. Therefore the NTM was introduced. This was clear since the beginning of the project.

To your most "important" argument I can only say, even with a the worst setup, a car, in reality is still drivable and in a simulator it should still feel plausible and believable, also predictable.

That's true irl. Every setup should be at least driveable. But you have to consider, that irl you are more restricted in the values you can choose for you setup. for example in pcars you can set camber to more than 2°!. This would be just insane irl. Thats also one of the reasons, why i don't like the setup- menu in pcars.
However, with the current setups the cars are indeed drivable and even driftalbe!

Now I have to admit that I tried this game only once at somebody else computer a long time ago, but the feedback I get from the (most recent) videos, which by the way hide other problems, doesn't look like big improvements have been made.

It's never a good idea to draw conclusions about physics only with videos!

And again, I have to quote the main reason why I don't want to get involved into this project:
Marco80 said: ↑

[...] It's these ppl/investors and the company ethics and ways that make me hate the game, rather than the game itself [...].​

I agree with you partly about that. In the past some people were banned. some deserved it, some not. That's a bit annoying to be honest. But nobody was banned, just for critism!! Their behaviour was always on the edge, but for me not always worth to ban someone.

 

[Mapu]

Bashing wasn't my intention . A misunderstanding; maybe my fault because of choosing wrong words, like "shabby"; replace it with "simple" for example. I guess my post wasn't that unbiased like I wished it to be.

I thought this topic has different purpose, but anyway I just wanted to underline that creating setups to conceal flaws in the game engine is not right. Setups should have a different purpose.

 

[Manuel1991]

[...]I just wanted to underline that creating setups to conceal flaws in the game engine is not right. Setups should have a different purpose.

true. That's why the flawed brush model is deleted now and replaced by the new tire model

 

[byverter]

IMO the biggest problem is not if it simulates something or not. Driving feels very strange. There is some very, very strange car bumpy behavior (same like in Shift 2). It doesn't feel like driving anything car related. Still i hope that they will sort that out until release. It will be great to have good game E.g. Ariel Atom is total absurd. Classic catherman slides all the time when R500 has so short gear ratio that it doesn't powerslide at all.

Assetto Corsa guy said it perfect. They take real car geometry, data and setup. If it doesn't feels like a real car - it means that general physx is broken.

 

[Peter]

I only liked it around build 070 when there was allot gmotor in it and I could copy settings from GTR2/race07 in it.
It was better than GTR2. It was like Shift2 with GTR2 FFB.

 

[Manuel1991]

I only liked it around build 070 when there was allot gmotor in it and I could copy settings from GTR2/race07 in it.
It was better than GTR2. It was like Shift2 with GTR2 FFB.

Did you copy FFB- settings from GTR2 into pcars? Didn't know that it was possible

 

[Peter]

Did you copy FFB- settings from GTR2 into pcars? Didn't know that it was possible

It was possible ( there was a customcontrolset folder in my documents ) but they changed it.

 

[Kazumi]

I thought this topic has different purpose, but anyway I just wanted to underline that creating setups to conceal flaws in the game engine is not right. Setups should have a different purpose.

That's not the reason they created "understeer" set-ups anyway.