Oculus Rift support

[Radek Zukowski]

Question for devs.
Do you know about Oculus Rift? - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oculus_Rift
If so do you plan to implement support for it?
Dev kits should be available in march at cost about 300$.

This would be a dream come true for a simracer.

 

[Hannes-Joshua Thor Barthel]

I don't know what latency your VR glasses have... but the oculus rift seems to be very low latency... so the moving of your head and the head of the game charakter, will be very synced...

if your VR glasses latency is quite high.. then the head of the game will react later to the movement of your real head.. and I understand that will or can create dizzyniss very easily... especially in an VR enviroment.. so it feels the world spins around you when you move your head... instead of feel like moving your head...

that is one big point which they talked about in other videos... of oculus rift... that the latency is so low that it feels natural and not like spinning the world... and it sounds like oculus rift is the first low latency VR...

so what I read from your post, it sounds like the latency is exactly your problem with your VR glasses... because your eyes are shielded you only see the game... so if you move your head and the game doesn't immediantly follow it feels like spinning the world.. which ofcourse create dizzyniss...

it sounds with OC you wont get that problem because the game world feels fix (which it is in your VRs too but it doesn't feel like that because of the high latency), and only your head moves around.. like it should...
maybe it can occour a bit when you do a very extreme head movement... (like an instand turn around) but as long as you move your head like you do normaly there shouldn't be that problem


added:
they said OC has a latency of 2ms or so... for example.. my audio interface has something about 8 or so.. + the distance of the speaker..and because sound need time to travel my overall latency is about 10 or so... when I hit a key on my keyboard.. the sound is immediantly there without noticable delay...

so turning your head with OC turns the head of the character with no noticable delay... the only thing they have a bit of problems at the moment is the pixelswitching time of the displays... so you get a littlebit of motionblur... but you don't get that world spins around you... (they want faster displays for the consumer version)



for the thing with the cut off from the realworld... isn't that what VR is about? feeling like to be in that virtual world.. virtual reality

 

[kikie]

Reading this post above it starts to sound more interesting by the minute.

The biggest problem with my (ex) VR glasses was that when there was no head tracking, it was very, very uncomfortable and caused dizzyness. Moving your head while the game was fixed was not so good, to say the least.
Nope, not all VR glasses have a closed setup. There're VR glasses that allows you to see the environment. If they are any good is open for debate.

I'm getting more intrigued by the OR.

 

[Hannes-Joshua Thor Barthel]

ahh ok yes ofcourse with no head tracking it's the same as with too much latency but in the other direction .. if you can say it that way roughly

because your brain thinks ?? I moved the head but nothing happens??




did you guys tried to imagine to view through OC?... I mean realy imagine... let the picture of for example sitting in the bmw (like in the gamescon videos) grow in your head... and now let it fullfill your complete field of view... and now look around with full headtracking wihtout noticable delay...
with OC we will be realy in the car.. in the world.. (at least from the graphical view) ... I didn't imagine it that way yet... I just was like well ok.. it's like track ir with full fov and 3d and so... but I didn't put that all real together and the main thing.. I always added a bunch of latency because it was somekind of logic for me.. but there wont be that kind of latency thats a big point you just look around like in reallife...

I just did that imagine... wow exciting times are coming... it's going slowly into the holodeck direction... not yet physical but at least visual

 

[Craig Booth]

Reading this post above it starts to sound more interesting by the minute.

The biggest problem with my (ex) VR glasses was that when there was no head tracking, it was very, very uncomfortable and caused dizzyness. Moving your head while the game was fixed was not so good, to say the least.
Nope, not all VR glasses have a closed setup. There're VR glasses that allows you to see the environment. If they are any good is open for debate.

I'm getting more intrigued by the OR.

Check out the CES videos of the Rift here http://www.reddit.com/r/oculus/. The 'hype' is actually being caused by the usually skeptical press playing a very simple demo. They are letting the OC do the talking for them.

If a game is not made for the Rift from the ground up, then yes, you may experience problems like you did with your VR headset. That's why they are shipping development kits long before the consumer unit is released, so people get the experience that is intended.

Go here also http://www.kickstarter.com/projects.../387139?ref=email&show_token=529d69a9634b76de. It's the latest kick starter update outlining the general press reaction and 'best' of CES awards also.

 

[kikie]

Please be gentle with me because I have another question about a few problems my VR HMD caused.

The glasses I had were transmitting a lot of EM radiation. They got hot (at least very warm) while being on your head which is a sign that there is a lot of amps and current going through these glasses (I think). Putting a device on your head for hours that is transmitting a lot of EM and electric fields, is probably not so good for your health. I could be very wrong though.
Another problem was the UV light and infra red light (and whatever) transmitted by the little LCD screens. These screens transmitted visible and non visible light, through little mirrors, directly onto my eyes. Couldn't that be a problem for your eyes?

I'm still a little bit sceptical and this is because I already had bad experiences with a HMD.
This is typical human. Once you have had a bad experience it is difficult to change your mind without trying out the new "stuff". I hope this makes sence?!


My concern also:

http://www.reddit.com/r/oculus/comments/16vt3v/whats_the_consensus_on_the_rift_and_motion/

I'm still convinced that the OR should not be entirely closed. Your eyes should be able to still see the real environment (room where you're playing). This, will definitely eliminate all dizzyness.

 

[Hannes-Joshua Thor Barthel]

don't know if it will eliminate dizzyniss.. if you see two moving worlds? another point is that it covers almost all of your field of view..(it has 120° degree or so) so there wouldn't be much place... to see the real world...
ok just tested my eyes have something about 180° fov (I know thats quite high most people I know have a bit less) so I would see something around it.. but I think I wouldn't like to see the real world around the VR world



but for the thing with the EM fields and radio emitions and so... thats indeed a point to think about it...

and for UV light yes it can damage your eyes...it burns them, thats why lamps with gasreaction lamps inside must have a UV filter at their lenses.
I didn't know that LED screens are capable of producing IR and UV.. but because the OC use lenses instead of mirrors.. it's a good chance that they will use this UV filters and so.... otherwise it's a dangerous thing if the led/lcd screens produce realy UV and IR ... .. IR isn't that bad that's just heat but UV is the dangerous thing

 

[kikie]

I have medically been tested for becoming an aeroplane pilot. I can say with 100% certainty that I have absolutely no problem with motion sickness and dizzyness related things and still my (ex) Head mounted display caused my (slighty) problems > light headed.

I also have a full 180° peripheral view (also medically tested) and if the OR should be open around the eyes, people would not have motion sickness and other related dizzyness things.
In case of an open HMD, you're eyes (read brain) will always perceive the surrounding (room you're playing in) even though you only have the normal 160 - 170° peripheral view.
This stationary view (the real world) will prevent motion sickness.

LED does admit UV (eventhough not as much as LCD and the sun in the summer at noon) and even harmful blue light. If the OR doesn't have UV and blue light filters, in that case, besides the EM field, the OR is an unhealthy device and you're better off with a multi monitor setup.

I really do hope that my post can be proven wrong in case of the OR because it does seem to be a very interesting device. If not, then the OR is not for me and stick to the classical monitor


EDIT: I have been using for quite some time, UV filter glasses (similar as sun glasses) when I'm using the computer. I'm wearing them as we, uuuhhhmmm, speak.

 

[Hannes-Joshua Thor Barthel]

yep, I can understand what you mean... and it's reasonable... but I just hope the best
and it sounds like OC is on the right way... but yes I can understand you even if you wouldn't had experiences with other VRs... and even more with your experiences...
we need wait to see how it realy is... but however it will be... I think it's a very good thing the konus ordered a devkit (if I remember the post right a page ago)... so that AC can get an implemantion if it is anygood, which I think / hope will be...

 

[Craig Booth]

I have medically been tested for becoming an aeroplane pilot. I can say with 100% certainty that I have absolutely no problem with motion sickness and dizzyness related things and still my (ex) Head mounted display caused my (slighty) problems > light headed.

I also have a full 180° peripheral view (also medically tested) and if the OR should be open around the eyes, people would not have motion sickness and other related dizzyness things.
In case of an open HMD, you're eyes (read brain) will always perceive the surrounding (room you're playing in) even though you only have the normal 160 - 170° peripheral view.
This stationary view (the real world) will prevent motion sickness.

LED does admit UV (eventhough not as much as LCD and the sun in the summer at noon) and even harmful blue light. If the OR doesn't have UV and blue light filters, in that case, besides the EM field, the OR is an unhealthy device and you're better off with a multi monitor setup.

I really do hope that my post can be proven wrong in case of the OR because it does seem to be a very interesting device. If not, then the OR is not for me and stick to the classical monitor


EDIT: I have been using for quite some time, UV filter glasses (similar as sun glasses) when I'm using the computer. I've them one right now as we, uuuhhhmmm, speak.

Post this on the reddit forum. They are very helpful and knowledgeable, and I would also be interested in their response.

My own view about being able to see the outside world, would be the break in immersion, and that would absolutely defeat the goal of what the rift intends. I would imagine also it would produce more motion sickness due to your brain being confused, as mentioned earlier.

 

[kikie]

Post this on the reddit forum. They are very helpful and knowledgeable, and I would also be interested in their response.

My own view about being able to see the outside world, would be the break in immersion, and that would absolutely defeat the goal of what the rift intends. I would imagine also it would produce more motion sickness due to your brain being confused, as mentioned earlier.

IMHO, I am not so sure about that.

See my comment about the tunnel in the universal studios in a previous post. When you're watching a race game through a HMD or the OR, you're brain thinks you're in motion but you're body is motionless (organs of balance) get confused. If you're brain preceive the motionless surroundings (of your room), this organ of balance problem does not occur because you're brain knows you're not in motion by preceiving the surroundings. I believe this is similar as watching and gaming on a pc LCD monitor.

There was another attraction in the universal studios. A very large room with huge screen. All the seats reacted (motion) to the video played on this huge screen. The video was of a virtual roller coaster. The rest of the room was pitch dark. You couldn't see anything of the surroundings. This gave your brain the feeling that you were in motion and sitting in a real roller coaster (watching the video and the seats moving accordingly) although your body wasn't moving that much (only the little movements of the seat).
I'm sure if the room wasn't pitch dark and you could see the surroundings, this effect of being in a roller coaster would be gone. And this am sure the same thing with the OR.

 

[TheRoggan]

I have also ordered the Dev Kit version of the Rift. Cant wait to try it out in March!

It would be stellar if AC would support it!!!!

Its great that they say that pCars will support it as well, but at the moment it runs like **** in 3D... (unlike pretty much all other PC car sims...) Looks stunning in 2D though, but since 2D looks like **** compared to 3D im not sure how much that is worth! I cant drive in 2D anymore, it literary looks so flat when you are used to amazing 3D...

I have high hopes for 3D in AC since NetcarPro runs quite good in 3D

 

[MarcG]

JUst found out about this, needess to say, I want one!!

 

[Martijn van Bommel]

.........I'm sure if the room wasn't pitch dark and you could see the surroundings, this effect of being in a roller coaster would be gone. And this am sure the same thing with the OR.

No further comment.....

Just kidding,but you just gave yourself the answer to why it should cover your eyes for total immersion....

For side effects like motion sickness i think we'll have to wait and see when it hits the stores and more people share their experiences.
On the other hand,enough reporters and comp. techs and gamers have tested the dev kit and not one person talks about light headedness or motion sickness.( just read the CES13 reviews posted by Craig Booth : http://www.kickstarter.com/projects.../387139?ref=email&show_token=529d69a9634b76de.)

Offcourse,some people are more affected by some things then others(car sickness,dizzyness in a spinning wheel ect).
Maybe you are wright,i dont know....but for now i remain very optimistic to say the least about the OC Rift.

 

[kikie]

No further comment.....

Just kidding,but you just gave yourself the answer to why it should cover your eyes for total immersion....

For side effects like motion sickness i think we'll have to wait and see when it hits the stores and more people share their experiences.
On the other hand,enough reporters and comp. techs and gamers have tested the dev kit and not one person talks about light headedness or motion sickness.( just read the CES13 reviews posted by Craig Booth : http://www.kickstarter.com/projects.../387139?ref=email&show_token=529d69a9634b76de.)

Offcourse,some people are more affected by some things then others(car sickness,dizzyness in a spinning wheel ect).
Maybe you are wright,i dont know....but for now i remain very optimistic to say the least about the OC Rift.

Agreed!

For total immersion, you're eyes should be covered. But that's my point. Covering your eyes could cause problems for some people. I remember that everybody was screaming on the top of their lunges when sitting in this attraction with the roller coaster video.

I don't really see problems with first person shooters but I do know that it could be a problem with racing games. Racing games are always directly releated with speed (the whole purpose of racing, lol). And it's that sense of speed that could be the problem. You're brain thinks it's in motion, very fast and your body is motionless and doesn't detect motion at all, hence the dizzyness. If you're eyes could see part of the environment ( = gaming room through peripheral view), you're brain knows you're motionless because it (= brain) knows your sitting in a chair behind you pc in a gaming room and this will not mess up the organ of balance. Equilibrium is not only influenced by your inner ear thing but also by your eyes and muscles. If there is a problem in the cooperation between these organs, you could become dizzy.

If you combine the Oculus Rift with a motion platform (preferable a 6DOF), I think that there wouldn't be much of a problem because the motion platform is moving your body in direct relation to what you see in the Oculus Rift.

 

[Hannes-Joshua Thor Barthel]

I think maybe the motion rigs which pusshes the seats around.. maybe are even a bit better, for that use... on that rotating things.. you get spin around and so, but in a car you are not spinning around you are pushed around and since you get the visual thing like you are in a car is a motionrig seat + rift maybe better option, then this "flightsim rigs" + rift ... (for racing ofcourse... for a flight sims.. pushed seats are ofcourse useless there is the rotating thing ofcourse the best way)
just my thoughts...


one thing I will defenatly not play with the OC is a game like amnesia that was even on a normal 2d screen in front of me almost too scary


but to think of AC with the OC omg can't believe we are finally in the time for this technology.... maybe you are right and it then feels weird without motionrig or it feels like the "feature of G-Forces" thing is missed too much then... but however it's definatly somekind of a must try thing

 

[kikie]

Could you explain which motion seats you're atlking about? There are several motion platforms.
Going off topic here but still a bit related to the Oculus rift.

You have motion simulators like the simbolrides which tries to emulate G-forces. You also have the SimconMotion from Frex and the D-box which simulates the movements of a car.

 

[Hannes-Joshua Thor Barthel]

I mean thinks like the simconmotion are maybe suited better for OC ... for two reasons... first one is obvious... if the seat would turn up and down... the OC would think you want to look ab and down ... witch would be a bit strange when hitting the gas paddle and then you look suddenly to the roof or into the sky
or hitting the break and you look at your legs... ok maybe correct for an F1 car without the needed neck muscles but otherwise not realy drivable I think


the 2nd reason is a bit feeling related... even if the first reason wouldn't happen...when you watch through OC you are in the world... when you look at screens the world rolls together with you in the simbolride like seats... because the screens and yourself are moving in the real world ... but with OC "you aren't in the real world" but if your seat suddenly rolls but the world you are in doesn't I think it's realy strange

so I think the simcon like rigs are the way to go with OC

also I think the simcon things are better for all that "rattling stuff" bumps on the road and such things... which are the importend thing for sens of speed....

a reallife example: I realy don't have a fast car (fiat seicento sporting).. but we have a road here which is realy bumpy.. and I love to drive there because it feels like I am fast as a rally driver

 

[Craig Booth]

Confirmation from Marco Massarutto on facebook that they have ordered a Dev kit:

'Now that I've seen how it works in 3D, I'm much more curious to test it with Oculus Rift, can't wait to receive our devkit!'

 

[Juise]

A system to have your own hands shifter seen in the pic would be great, any ideas? Kinect and a special app?

 

[Hannes-Joshua Thor Barthel]

A system to have your own hands shifter seen in the pic would be great, any ideas? Kinect and a special app?

hmm kinect or this kind of thing https://www.leapmotion.com/ ? would be nice to control the buttons inside the car but would need to be mounted on the rift then I think because you turn the screen around with your head