Mods confirmed for AC EVO

If you read the interview it's very clear as to what is planned and happening. :O_o:

The game is not finished after 5 years of development so far.
The game is coming out this year (2024) in "Early Access".

The game will likely spend 2-4+ years in "Early Access" (like AC, and ACC).
Modding will not be a part of the "Early Access" period is what they strongly hint at.

They currently have "ideas" about wanting to include modding when the game is done, but they don't like people being able to freely mod because some people have used the freedom to make illegal mods (backwards logic there Kunos).

To me it's all Kunos PR speak for :

Paid Mod DLC = no open/free modding so they can control and police it.


Hello, Kunos!
...you are becoming Bethesda. :confused: :devilish: :thumbsdown:

NOTE : I'm half joking here, and hope I'm wrong.

I think if they want to patrol modding they might go to the steam workshop, but your thoughts are right I think. I don't think kunos will add a DLC just to start modding, isn't their style so far, but they'll have to properly think how they can do it in a balanced manner.

Personally I do have an issue with people stealing content from other games and importing it. There is a but if for me: if the game where that content came from is long dead and is now abondonware, well why not let the content continue to live?
 
Personally I do have an issue with people stealing content from other games and importing it. There is a but if for me: if the game where that content came from is long dead and is now abondonware, well why not let the content continue to live?

For one, the content is still someone's property.
 
For one, the content is still someone's property.
Legally for 70 years yes, but yeah, I don't have any hard feelings when product support stops and the company is no longer in business (10-15+ years). But if people start making money from this content, then it's wrong.

There is for me a difference between fair use and blatantly selling someone their content.
 
Legally for 70 years yes, but yeah, I don't have any hard feelings when product support stops and the company is no longer in business (10-15+ years). But if people start making money from this content, then it's wrong.

There is for me a difference between fair use and blatantly selling someone their content.
Yeah, I agree

I just find that if there is still a need for specific cars and tracks that somehow only exist in defunct games, the quality will not be up to par. And if the person doing the conversion is going the extra mile to make it look decent, they would just start from zero anyways since its similar amount of work... IMO
 
Yes, your game modding experience doesn’t reflect the state of the community.
What you want - copy and paste a file you downloaded (or bought) onto a game folder pretty much defeats the purpose of content moderation.
Moderation is a must for any game that you can make mod to.
VRC do everything by themself and dont using real trademarked/copyrighted stuff.
how is that a problem?
It does not break any rules and i pay for it and i also bought all the DLC packs for the game too.
i hate p!racy and i actually have studied musicproduction, so i should know.
i can cut a sample from a song and use in my own work, and its not stealing, totally legal. VRC is kind of doing the same thing.
the thing Kunos forgot that Ferrari is thinks that they own every line of a cars design is copyrighted to them. they are unreasonable (same deal with Porsche).
Tthey sued Deadmau5 for doing a custom wrap on his own ferrari, they have sued people making Kit-cars among other things.
Porsche are not good to deal with either, Developers has said that they have better relationship with Ruf than Porsche.
Kunos started this problem when they released the Modtools.

the main reason for me is that it could be like when Bethesda tried with paid user mods, that their players made for free to use. thats what i worry about.
 
For one, the content is still someone's property.
At what point does recycling become IP theft, The guy making Dog kennels out of old Pallets... that were themselves made by a small company from reclaimed packing crates purchased by Ford by yet another company to transport Engines overseas?
5 decades ago I went through the complete chain above,

Today here, we have a difficult and problematic system where every word will be twisted by some leagal slime to make a few quid, often at the expence of the tax payer, but always at the expense of the people.

I have made and still do make mods for different games, not for others to use but for me... (it's always about what I want) I sometimes release these bodge-ups for others to use should they wish to, I don't want credit and certainly never want cash or even recognition for what was done, I always maintain that the downloader can do with the content whatever he or she wishes, and if it gets repackaged and or sold then good luck to you, but also shame on you, But, never to blame me if it goes belly up.
But the work that I put in was for me, so I could use it the way I want.

This kind of thinking is still alive in the real world, Mazda rorory engined Corvette drift car springs to mind, as well many of the butchered competition/Custom cars that just get an occasional airing at a club meeting.

The laws on IP have to change as it's simply too one sided, and studios will have to pull their socks up too, and address the problem of why only some of their content is getting ripped to use in another game... it it because you content is good but your game is crap?
 
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At what point does recycling become IP theft, The guy making Dog kennels out of old Pallets... that were themselves made by a small company from reclaimed packing crates purchased by Ford by yet another company to transport Engines overseas?
5 decades ago I went through the complete chain above,

Today here, we have a difficult and problematic system where every word will be twisted by some leagal slime to make a few quid, often at the expence of the tax payer, but always at the expense of the people.

I have made and still do make mods for different games, not for others to use but for me... (it's always about what I want) I sometimes release these bodge-ups for others to use should they wish to, I don't want credit and certainly never want cash or even recognition for what was done, I always maintain that the downloader can do with the content whatever he or she wishes, and if it gets repackaged and or sold then good luck to you, but also shame on you, But, never to blame me if it goes belly up.
But the work that I put in was for me, so I could use it the way I want.

This kind of thinking is still alive in the real world, Mazda rorory engined Corvette drift car springs to mind, as well many of the butchered competition/Custom cars that just get an occasional airing at a club meeting.

The laws on IP have to change as it's simply too one sided, and studios will have to pull their socks up too, and address the problem of why only some of their content is getting ripped to use in another game... it it because you content is good but your game is crap?
Except it doesnt end there when it comes to recycling, does it?

The typical content ripping modder will also try and make "a few quid", or pass it as their own.
 
Except it doesnt end there when it comes to recycling, does it?

The typical content ripping modder will also try and make "a few quid", or pass it as their own.
"Except it doesnt end there when it comes to recycling, does it?"

No, if we're to get pedantic it should be down to the Carbon Tax as the wood (the carbon lock) eventually breaks down, with or without being thrown on a bonfire!

So why should a mod created from an old defunct game be a problem for you, it's recycling at it's best.
As for guys ripping content and passing it off as their own, it's unlike that such a claim will stand the internet test for very long, as for someone paying for a mod ripped from another game... it's their wallet why should it bother you, there's always the joint creator problem, and one is allegedly here on this site where, from what I can gather, one partner for whatever reason decided that what he'd done was no longer to be part of the project and a bit of a cerpuffel between the two (perhaps more) erupted... but really that's down to them not me, you or anyone else.
 
"Except it doesnt end there when it comes to recycling, does it?"

No, if we're to get pedantic it should be down to the Carbon Tax as the wood (the carbon lock) eventually breaks down, with or without being thrown on a bonfire!

So why should a mod created from an old defunct game be a problem for you, it's recycling at it's best.
As for guys ripping content and passing it off as their own, it's unlike that such a claim will stand the internet test for very long, as for someone paying for a mod ripped from another game... it's their wallet why should it bother you, there's always the joint creator problem, and one is allegedly here on this site where, from what I can gather, one partner for whatever reason decided that what he'd done was no longer to be part of the project and a bit of a cerpuffel between the two (perhaps more) erupted... but really that's down to them not me, you or anyone else.
Really not sure why you are enforcing your opinion here, I dont care if you are pro or against this. Copyright protection is always there.
 
Really not sure why you are enforcing your opinion here, I dont care if you are pro or against this. Copyright protection is always there.
I ain't the one who's been on a horse throughout the thread!

As for the earlier parts of the thread, Kunos want to help 'GOOD MODDERS' what happens to the guys that ain't good? no support there because the work can't be charged for, or it isn't up to scratch of the devs (paid staff) work and might bring the quality of the game down, so learn somewhere else and bring us your good stuff... if we like it we'll let you in.
What about the guys that just wanna change things up a bit like tyre grip, invisible aero...whatever (because they want to) while they play their game offline, what about the guys who make a paint job that's crap but like it, it's all modding and it's all legal, will they still be allowed to use the workbench/creation kit thingy?

We don't know what's in store for the mod scene yet, but not everything has to be about IP theft and legal wrangles of interplatform chicainery with the lords of evil profiteering off the backs of the Good Knight Kunos who might just sell more games but less DLC and paid mods.

I just hope that GTRevival Project Motor Racing doesn't have any daft ideas about getting more money out of the community, I'm hearing that the first 100 sales of that game will come with a free picture of a plough... don't quote me on that though!
 
Yep they don't want modding.

NFS4 was modded to the eye-balls with copied cars, content and tracks 25 years ago!

It didn't stop the company making NFS5 which also got modded with copied content.

Then NFS6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11 blah blah blah.

25 years ago developers probably worried about mods in NFS4, hurting sales for NFS5, and NFS6, etc... even people cracked into GT (PD) games and nicked their content. I remember people adding full new cars to NFS5... Carrera GT!
But they all made money, made new games, and the sky didn't fall down because people could download pretty much every car that'd ever existed up to that point in NFS4! And even if 90% of it was just crappy mods by 15 year olds... we definitely ALL started somewhere (mine was decent Ruf 911s in NFS Porsche)




What KS are saying is that they want to copy their own content and sell it to you in their next version, again and again... because otherwise "the community" will copy that content again and again, and have it for free.

Think about the whole idea now of peak (or very sufficient) visual fidelity in cars and tracks. Good mods made today for free, will likely be very good mods forever.
Throw in possibly AI helping along and the ability for modders to get extra quality for little extra effort.




And let's not pretend this industry creates every new car and track from scratch each time.

Even 15 years ago I'd made NURBS cars (and I know for example that Stecki who made some cars for Racer 20 year ago) was making them in NURBS in Maya, and then you can retopo them (tools are now very efficient) in relative quick time. Or you can just strip out rows and optimise.
OR, manufacturers send you CAD (I've worked on a bunch of CAD cars 10-15 years ago), so the poly density, flow, blah blah, can all be set in retopo tools.
Even looking back at the top spec models for GT5 (PD) in photo-mode, they're stunning. They clearly made VERY high detail models and baked normals and diffuse/albedo maps from them, and they'll be re-leveraging those same HQ models (likely made with good UVs and quads) down their chain again each time.
I even remember Porsche releasing a 3D configurator on their website (time of 997 GT3 mk2 iirc) and I lifted their 100k poly meshes from it.
The idea that these car meshes are somehow super hard work to make and come by is just nonsense, yes there is time invested in them, once, and then that's it. You have a dense quad mesh of a car. You're not doing all that work again and again each time you make that car.
Same with tracks. Likely they're made in very high detail and then baked down. If they were made off scans, and the track hasn't changed, no work is really needed at all.
If a section is re-worked, that is re-scanned and made, arguably very quickly. As noted, 10-15 years ago the top dev teams were using amazing tools for this process. It isn't and shouldn't be considered 'new' product unless it's brand new.

So yes still some work maybe for each new release, but not like reworking the whole lot.



I'd bet half the content out there in more niche simmy land is derived from content that came before. I know lots of stuff went from GTR2 > rF > sim users, in some cases with up-ressed surfaces (scanned etc)... indeed where did GTR2s original stuff come from? Partial lifts from elsewhere?

Sounds? Probably just tweaking again, possibly from source files to deployed files.

Textures? Possibly, again just tweaking in source (PSDs, something else? Depends what you use, but chances are they'll be authored at 8K and double the size you'd ever want them to be)



And generally, content now is just sooooo good. This isn't like 1998 when a GPU was pushing 1mill triangles per second, then a few years later it was four or fives times as many, and car meshes went from 4k to 12k polys... we have millions of triangles per frame at 100fps+... cars and tracks (at least in source models/files) have had sufficient fidelity now for a decade.
We've firmly gone into re-processing existing materials and re-selling it as if they'd made it from scratch... and with game engines increasingly made in UE, they're not even doing any work there... it literally is taking mostly existing high fidelity library content and dropping it into a newer engine (provided by your supplier), and selling it again with a full price.



Meanwhile modders who can make excellent mods are only likely to remove a revenue stream.

And the 'bad' modders are then used as an excuse.

Even if the bad modders disappeared tomorrow and left only the good, they'd not suddenly embrace the good modding scene.




Which is exactly why, imo, the modding scene should set up shop in a true open sim, as the level of talent out there to make both top end content and an engine (inside UE) for free is abundant.


KS should really just be more pragamatic, make it great for modding, and then gain sales from all the people who want it for modding.
Those people might also buy DLCs, as well as free mods.
And those people who just copy everything in sight, well chances are they wouldn't be buying anything any way if they couldn't download rubbish conversions etc.


They seem terrified of just making a great finished game with mods as it might kill their own future market.

And they're right. Which is why they'll never finish a game off properly, and which is why after AC1 from early access and one DLC pack, I'll never give them a penny again (though I did pay £3 in the seaside arcade the other day and drove the McLaren P1 on a motion sim, what a let-down)
 
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At what point does recycling become IP theft...

...The laws on IP have to change as it's simply too one sided...

Iirc one very big game studio/dev/publisher was getting fed up of this themselves with some military gear.

Was it like Boeing and some gun makers and stuff, for a war game?
They were wanting many millions just to have their content in there and aiui this was an on-going angle which may set a new precendent.

The game makers argued it was a narrative use, which is the same as having things described in books, or used in films or whatever.
Ie, people might be drawn to a film where a protagnoist uses a Ferrrai for instance, but should a film production pay Ferrari money? Usually it's the other way around. Ferrari pay the film makers money if they feel it'll be a positive for them. But likely don't have a say at all if it's just generic narrative use.


How this will all play out is another matter, but there is big money involved here and the game industry is massive and influential now, it's unlikely they'll back down, they'll just keep chipping away with new angles.
When there are tens of millions of £££ on the line, it's worth spending £££ millions on legal wrangling... and they have the money.
 
I wonder if you'll be able to convert GPL tracks to AC Evo? :roflmao:
We won't be modding anything into ACE without get'n through the Kunos Security Checkpoint :roflmao:

There isn't really any "Anti-cheat" for AC, but I'm sure ACE will have something.
If ACE wants that Esport money all the cool companies are chasing, they will have security.
Hopefully not heavy DRM like some companies.

Kunos will %100 have some form of model/file encryption for ACE as well, so we can likely kiss modding goodbye. :(
 
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What is on your wishlist for AC Evo

  • Free roam

    Votes: 247 39.4%
  • Online service

    Votes: 151 24.1%
  • Advanced feature AI

    Votes: 271 43.2%
  • Graphics

    Votes: 191 30.5%
  • Car customization

    Votes: 189 30.1%
  • Modding

    Votes: 414 66.0%
  • Career

    Votes: 209 33.3%
  • License

    Votes: 111 17.7%
  • VR Support

    Votes: 150 23.9%
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