PC1 Latest Build testing.

[Andy_J]

As you all know, Ian gave me a free pass to test the latest builds and that's what I have been doing for the last week. I will report here as and when I see fit to tell all about my findings.

But I will say that the latest build (296) is quite good. Now lets make some sense of my statement. I used a Lotus 98T in helmet cam using my antique MOMO red wheel and I can honestly report it is coming along much better than I anticipated. The actual feel and immersion is damn fine at this point. The handling is strange at first compared to say...RF2 and FVA, but it grows on you within minutes. At this point in time, this actual car feels good. I like it and I love the Milan circuit. The damage model has come on leaps and bounds.

I am doing some more testing all of next week using a G27 and I will also test some of the other cars that don't interest me as much (I am a F1 nut) and see how the feel in comparison to Shift 2, because that is what I was initially comparing PCars to.

I would like the replay function to have a directors mode though. Something that jumps from action to action and from car to car.

Aside from that, the replay's do crash my PC quite often but I understand that is being looked at.

Watch this space.

 

[Dazmaniac]

Nicolas drives with buttons for brake and throttle because he has Cerebral Palsy and can't use his legs to their full capacity...

I've also raced against him on RD in the past, and he's pretty damn quick.

I'm sure that isn't the issue here. Nic is quick in sims from what I hear, and good luck to him, however he drives. Each to their own, especially where disabilities are concerned.

Rhys - Does he drive a modified Clio Cup car, because of his legs?

I think the odd thing is, that someone who has various driving aids enabled, like ABS and TCS is supposedly being hired by SMS to be a 'Handling Consultant'. Surely a person in this role would be driving a sim in its rawest form to give accurate feedback.

Going to struggle passing on feedback about the car locking up under braking when the ABS is switched on, lol.

 

[Flawl3ssVctry]

Yeah, his Clio is slightly modified for him. Pedals are closer together...things like that. No performance changes of course.

http://vimeo.com/38152253

 

[Rhys Gardiner]

think the odd thing is, that someone who has various driving aids enabled, like ABS and TCS is supposedly being hired by SMS to be a 'Handling Consultant'. Surely a person in this role would be driving a sim in its rawest form to give accurate feedback.

Going to struggle passing on feedback about the car locking up under braking when the ABS is switched on, lol.

As far as I'm aware, when I raced against him in the past, it was an RD club race and the only driving aid allowed in those are automatic gears...

 

[diesirae]

This is for publicity only of course, which is fine as marketing needs to be done. And as the last couple of days have shown with good results.

I disagree.

First of all, it's too early to spend money from the budget on something that's only marketing. The game's not due for another year and hasn't picked much mainstream publicity and nor has the devs really done any marketing apart from a couple of interview for the sim crowd (which is hardly marketing at all given the crowd where most of the sales should be coming from).

Secondly, the budget doesn't include any marketing; it's tight enough to develop the game with 3.75 million, and it will be handled mostly by the distributor. Sure, there's the community done trailers and such, but them going viral or reaching the consol crowd isn't very realistic.

Third, he's not really doing any publicity apart from the inital announcement, which already is mostly targeted to the existing members of the forum (more so given that no new members are accepted). All his posts are only available through the forums and only the members and are directed towards the devs. Judging by his first post he's also critical where need be and praising where it's deserved and agrees that there's still a long way to go to reach maximum realism.

All in all, slagging his involvement as pure marketing and publicity simply doesn't make the damnedest sense, whatever your opinion about his skills or experience may be. It's just not how games development and marketing works.

With all respect. Nic is a super nice bloke but I wouldn't call him a super fast alien when it comes to sim racing as I can name quite a lot drivers from the RDTCC days that were a lot quicker, consistent and with more knowledge how to setup a touring car properly. Among them were also some real life racers from touring car series from all over the world but their biggest disadvantage is that they don't have a world famous brother in Formula 1 so hardly anybody knows them.

That he cannot use the throttle and the brakes with his feet due to his physical condition is a big downside when it comes to handling as using digital buttons is just not the same as using your feet on analogue pedals.

The above will probably be explained again as hating by the fanboy armada but that just my opinion about this hype.

No-one's saying he's the best possible aid for the game, but it's still much better than nothing and his gaming and sim-racing background makes for a great companion to Collin's broad experience in real life cars and lesser experience in gaming. He may not be as much of help as some aliens like Greger or have the experience of some real life drivers who also drive sims, but he's still very much qualified to give feedback.

He also mentioned trying the game with pedals, but preferring the buttons because of allowing more consistent and faster results and I also imagine it being more comfortable for him. As for aids, he only uses ABS which is reasonable. He might not be able to judge how the brakes would perform in real life situations, but he's far from the only guy on the project. He can still judge how the car behaves majority of the time with more experience that majority of the guys here and that's what counts.

I think the odd thing is, that someone who has various driving aids enabled, like ABS and TCS is supposedly being hired by SMS to be a 'Handling Consultant'. Surely a person in this role would be driving a sim in its rawest form to give accurate feedback.

Like I said, he only uses ABS.

And yes, he may not able to provide the most accurate feedback compared to some others, but he still has plenty of real life experience in how a car should behave, regardless of the controlling method. With realistic physics a car drives like it's real life counterpart with or without ABS,TCS, with or without a wheel. SMS feel that he can be useful in judging and fine-tuning the physics which is why they've hired him regardless of his disabilities.

 

[Dazmaniac]

With realistic physics a car drives like it's real life counterpart with or without ABS,TCS, with or without a wheel. SMS feel that he can be useful in judging and fine-tuning the physics which is why they've hired him regardless of his disabilities.

OK.

Let me know when he's done some real life laps in a Gumpert, Zonda, Audi DTM, Capri, Evo, BMW Z4, Lotus 49 etc. just so that we know that the feedback he is giving for these cars is based on real life experiences, and not what he has learned from a Clio Cup car.

Would hate for the Zonda to be based on feedback from a Clio, lol.

 

[diesirae]

Let me know when he's done some real life laps in a Gumpert, Zonda, Audi DTM, Capri, Evo, BMW Z4, Lotus 49 etc. just so that we know that the feedback he is giving for these cars is based on real life experiences, and not what he has learned from a Clio Cup car.

That's why he isn't giving individual feedback on cars that he hasn't driven or has any proper experience from, aside from general things tyre physics.

They've already got Ben Collins on board who has pretty much driven every car in the game (apart from some of the historics, probably) and can give detailed feedback for those, but Nic is still highly qualified to judge the behaviour of the cars and generally the direction which the physics should go towards.At the moment it's more about getting the new tyre model on the right track rather getting each individual car to behave exactly correct. Once the tyre model is ready to compete with other games, then it's time to focus on each car.

Anyhow, they've just added some more tyres for the STM and whilst it's still ways to go, some of the cars like the Huyra have gone a long way forward and it shares the behaviour that Chris Harris showed in his video; the relaxed, but firm feel at road and a bit higher speeds and that gutsy power oversteer when you let slip the dogs of war. I really like wagging the tail at exits of corners, just like that video. It still doesn't feel completely natural to drift like AC's videos look to be nor is the FFB that good (you can get some individual bits quite nice, but overall it's simply lacking), but there's helluva lot of potential to go from here.

 

[Bram Hengeveld]

It's just not how games development and marketing works.

Are you sure? I must be racing different genres then. Never asked yourself the question how this project was funded without marketing? Marketing doesn't necessarily need to cost a lot of money (if any).

As I said in my last line, don't need to qualify this as hating as its not. Nothing wrong with marketing if that brings food on the table for those working in their daily jobs. Every company outside game development does that as well.

If you think that handling consultants really add something to the development of your favorite game/investment then please do believe it.

but there's helluva lot of potential to go from here.

Absolutely right there. For a company that is proud to keep saying they developed GTR 2 and GT Legends which are on my list of the games I absolutely love(d) I can only agree that there is a lot of potential in the development team to make a kick ass PC simulation targeted at hardcore simracers as they have done six years ago.

If the final product will be an evolution of those two games I throw my money very hard in their direction and enjoy it for years to come.

Unfortunately the same company also build Shift 1, Shift 2 and TD Ferrari Legends, but that was of course the fault of the big bad publisher. As pCars doesnt have a publisher but is funded by a community of simracers it will have to be a GTR2'ish or GTL"ish kind of game again right?

 

[diesirae]

Are you sure? I must be racing different genres then. Never asked yourself the question how this project was funded without marketing? Marketing doesn't necessarily need to cost a lot of money (if any).

As I said in my last line, don't need to qualify this as hating as its not. Nothing wrong with marketing if that brings food on the table for those working in their daily jobs. Every company outside game development does that as well.

I didn't mean to imply you were hating or anything, just that not everything about the game needs to be disparaged or made negative. I also loathe the way everything about the game needs to be judges as either hating or loving. You can dislike the project without coming off as a troll and a "hater". I'm not aiming at you, just the general atmosphere that destroys all reasonable discussion.

And yes, off course there's always some amounts of marketing and yes, the budget would never have been raised without marketing, but the points still stands. It couldn't be further from the right time; they've raised enough money and need no publicity in that regards and the game is still too far from release to be marketed properly. And come on ask yourself, do you honestly believe SMS would pay for Nic to do marketing when all he is doing is commenting on the handling on the forums only accesible by only those that have already bought access. Yes, there's absolutely the chance that his name will be used for marketing and publicity purposes later on, but if it was the only thing he's brought into the project it simply wouldn't have been done the way they've done it.

If you think that handling consultants really add something to the development of your favorite game/investment then please do believe it.

First of all, pCARS isn't close to being my favorite game, and second of all I've not invested in the game. Frankly, I think it's disrespectful to assume that people have some sort of agenda and are biased just because they're defending some aspect of the project.

Yes, I absolutely adore the whole WMD concept; the state of the industry is in a downwards spiral when it comes to anything bigger and apporach a larger crowd. Companies like THQ are going down just because of the bloat and massive costs the industry are struggling with and I respect SMS for trying to go the AAA route with 1/10 of the budget and independendent creative control. It's not going to be easy and hats off to those who have belief in it and have put down larger amounts of cash. I personally put a decent amount to support the project and if I get some back then that'd be great, but it's not a huge deal for me.

But back on track. Once again, I didn't say that Nic's involvement necessarily adds to the physics, but there's a chance it will have an positive effect on the game and SMS themselves have brought him onboard partly for that purpose so why not? Same goes for Ben Collins, it's not guaranteed that his vast experience translates to the game, but if it does then that'd be great. Both have the chance to add to the game and that's what matters for us.

If the final product will be an evolution of those two games I throw my money very hard in their direction and enjoy it for years to come.

Unfortunately the same company also build Shift 1, Shift 2 and TD Ferrari Legends, but that was of course the fault of the big bad publisher. As pCars doesnt have a publisher but is funded by a community of simracers it will have to be a GTR2'ish or GTL"ish kind of game again right?

It'll likely be different from GTR2 or GTL same as AC is different from them, but it's certainly going to wildly different from either Shift or TDFL.

Whether they're going to get it all right, the base approach is to get it as realistic as they can and that includes everything that GTR2 has and everything that their commisioned games did not. Realistic physics, realistic tracks, realistic weather, realisting racing with pit-stops, rules, radio, race lengths, driver changes, etc. , proper multiplayer with dedicated servers, 64 player races, multiclass races, etc are all things they're trying to do with the game.

Now tell me, how does that sound?

What the aim and the experience behind the studio is why I'm excited about the game. It's got a long way to go, but I do believe SMS have the chance to achieve majority of it and whether the end result I'll certainly give it a go. It might not end up as the most realistic sim, but I'll give them the benefit of doubt for now and judge it for good when it deserves to be judged.

 

[Bram Hengeveld]

In the builds I have played the physics are still too much Shift'ish for me and not as accurate as other sims out there. However that might have changed in the last few weeks though, time to hook up with my friend for a gaming night soon and find out

Now tell me, how does that sound?

Looking forward to see those driver changes as that is what is currently missing in other games I play.

And like you I am also giving the end result a go of course as I am buying all sim racing games when get released.

 

[Trebor901]

this game has slowly gone downhill for me, ive got a pc that i wouldnt say was beyond its time, its perfectly capable of running stuff like rFactor 2 on descent graphics settings but as time has gone on pCars has started to run slower and slower, to the point where it uses so much graphics memory and processing memory just loading the car in the garage that it runs really slow. I wouldnt mind but the graphics havent exactly got any better, it still looks like Shift2, so whats causing it to do this is beyond me.

Cant see it being a hit if people have to spend silly amounts upgrading their computers just to play one arcade/sim

 

[diesirae]

That's because most of the stuff they've added is still highly experimental, work-in-progress or simply unoptimized. Getting the game the run as fast as possible comes at a much later stage in development.

Anyhow, just had a go with the Formula A and whilst still very much behind newer sims, I can easily say it's easily better than anything in the game before or modded Shift. It's very much out of balance and I think the curbs are way too slippery at the moment, but I'm somewhat optimistic about the new tyre model given how much more gradual everything is compared to the BTM even if it's very early implementation.

 

[Leigh Ferguson]

And like you I am also giving the end result a go of course as I am buying all sim racing games when get released.

I think that's a healthy choice, irrespective of which title you might be looking at.
I'm all for supporting people that are genuinely trying to make great racing titles and/or working towards improving the genre in various aspects by buying the titles even if I don't have the time or inclination to play them all.

Maybe it has to do with me being an old fart, but I'm tired of games that feel amazing but look unrealistic along with those games that look amazing and feel unrealistic.
It's greedy I know, but I want both.

I'm sufficiently sceptical (as opposed to be being purely cynical) as to whether or not any of these companies can pull that off, but I remain absolutely willing to be put in my place.

 

[Andy_J]

I'm still testing each build. Not happy yet. Was happier about 10 builds ago.

 

[Flawl3ssVctry]

Let's see what happens on Friday's build. Looks like Casey made some updates today based on community and Nic Hamilton's feedback.

 

[Martin Larsen]

Do I have to wait til full version of the game? since when im gona register om the homepage it stands: Sorry, new members registration and Tool Packs purchasing is no longer possible. We hope to welcome you as members of future WMD projects.

 

[DrJustice]

^ A community vote has decided that the sign-ups will be reopened. Exactly when and for how long has not been decided yet, but if you keep an eye on it (WMD, NoGrip, VirtualR, maybe even here(?), etc..), you will likely spot it when it happens.

 

[Tom]

Do I have to wait til full version of the game? since when im gona register om the homepage it stands: Sorry, new members registration and Tool Packs purchasing is no longer possible. We hope to welcome you as members of future WMD projects.

Yep since there's currently no option to buy the game right now. Funding has been completed some time ago.

 

[Andy_J]

They will re-open it. It makes good financial sense.

 

[Andy_J]

I have just spent the last couple of days testing the latest build (that a team member can access) and to be honest, I still don't get on with it. My pc doesn't like it either as I had to turn down graphic options again. Think I'll need another upgrade in the hardware department if they carry on like this.

But back to the handling, I can't quite put my finger on the way it seems to me. Almost like it's very good one minute and then like all loose the next. I am still experimenting with setups so I'll report back. I know it's all WIP at the moment and it's Pre Alpha but I am telling it how it is for me. I really cannot get exited by it at this moment in time.
As for the graphics, pretty they are but still not as nice as Shift 2's in my opinion.

I have gone back to GTR2 and GTR evolution for my sim racing at the moment. One thing I will say though, the Formula A cars dont feel right at all to me. I actually prefer F1 2012 by Codemasters to be driving better and more realistically than PCars right now. Except for the Lotus 78's, I just adore them and they seem to handle much better.

More testing though and many more builds.

ps, one thing that has got better is the superb lighting. I did a race at Watkins Glen in my favourite Lotus 78 and it was sublime. The sun was just going down casting beautiful shadows. Very nice.

 

[Flawl3ssVctry]

Hang on Andy. The '78 is largely felt by the community as 'too grippy'. And F1 2012 also is report as almost 'too easy' on the sites I've visited. What kind of driving style would you categorize yourself?

There are some good Asano X4 setups posted now by the guys and most of the MP rooms seem to reflect the popularity of the X4, maybe you should give that a spin with one of the community setups.