PC1 Latest Build testing.

[Andy_J]

As you all know, Ian gave me a free pass to test the latest builds and that's what I have been doing for the last week. I will report here as and when I see fit to tell all about my findings.

But I will say that the latest build (296) is quite good. Now lets make some sense of my statement. I used a Lotus 98T in helmet cam using my antique MOMO red wheel and I can honestly report it is coming along much better than I anticipated. The actual feel and immersion is damn fine at this point. The handling is strange at first compared to say...RF2 and FVA, but it grows on you within minutes. At this point in time, this actual car feels good. I like it and I love the Milan circuit. The damage model has come on leaps and bounds.

I am doing some more testing all of next week using a G27 and I will also test some of the other cars that don't interest me as much (I am a F1 nut) and see how the feel in comparison to Shift 2, because that is what I was initially comparing PCars to.

I would like the replay function to have a directors mode though. Something that jumps from action to action and from car to car.

Aside from that, the replay's do crash my PC quite often but I understand that is being looked at.

Watch this space.

 

[Andy_J]

Excellent post Birddogg66. I thank you. It is a pity that some of the more vocal WMD/PCars investors had to muddy the water by being incredibly abusive and belittling in the various forums, not just here. Just trying to put any one down that even dared say anything in the negative or it didn't fit in with their way of seeing things. Some nasty but clever speaking members went out of the way to abuse people (most now placed on my ignore list). Not helped by their boss man who threatened legal action either or that bad mouthing American that liked to gloat how successful he was with his investments. It was his and others close to him with their attitude that probably caused the bad feeling that some members started to show and what in all honesty made some members here and on other forums just go against the whole project.

I agree with you though, we sometimes need to take a step back and look at ourselves. I no longer take race sims too serious either. Drive em for fun I say. Life is too short.

Regarding Pcars though, I don't think my opinion has changed too much. Playing the latest builds has convinced me that this could have been called Shift 3 (not that that would bother me) and fit into the fun race sim mould. I'd be happy with that. It is aimed at too many on too many platforms to ever be the serious sim I particularly wanted. Eck, it's not even as good as (nor will it be) Microprose GP4 as far as I am concerned. That race sim had everything I wanted (In a F1 sim) and everything I still want in a Race sim. I ain't bothered about pretty visuals, but dynamic, clever AI, full broadcast TV replays and proper (not watered down) damage and great racing will always be high on my list.

Anyway, lets keep this on topic now and carry on reporting on the lastest build performance.

 

[Damage Inc]

It's also a pity that some of the more vocal pCARS detractors were muddying the waters already with abusive and belittling posts when I joined.

(waiting for the "dislikes"! )

 

[Birddogg66]

Excellent post Birddogg66. I thank you. It is a pity that some of the more vocal WMD/PCars investors had to muddy the water by being incredibly abusive and belittling in the various forums, not just here. Just trying to put any one down that even dared say anything in the negative or it didn't fit in with their way of seeing things. Some nasty but clever speaking members went out of the way to abuse people (most now placed on my ignore list). Not helped by their boss man who threatened legal action either or that bad mouthing American that liked to gloat how successful he was with his investments. It was his and others close to him with their attitude that probably caused the bad feeling that some members started to show and what in all honesty made some members here and on other forums just go against the whole project.

I agree with you though, we sometimes need to take a step back and look at ourselves. I no longer take race sims too serious either. Drive em for fun I say. Life is too short.

Regarding Pcars though, I don't think my opinion has changed too much. Playing the latest builds has convinced me that this could have been called Shift 3 (not that that would bother me) and fit into the fun race sim mould. I'd be happy with that. It is aimed at too many on too many platforms to ever be the serious sim I particularly wanted. Eck, it's not even as good as (nor will it be) Microprose GP4 as far as I am concerned. That race sim had everything I wanted (In a F1 sim) and everything I still want in a Race sim. I ain't bothered about pretty visuals, but dynamic, clever AI, full broadcast TV replays and proper (not watered down) damage and great racing will always be high on my list.

Anyway, lets keep this on topic now and carry on reporting on the lastest build performance.

If I could twist Crammond's arm and force him back behind a KB for long periods of time I surly would try. There was a rumor that he was invited to be involved with pCARS on an official level but seems to be content with his life the way it is. Live on old code Guru I say we still miss what he brought to the genre.

As far as latest build to me it still seems like a lot of work is being done on tire tech. With many of the cars I just generally jump in and off I go as to see how a default setup relates to what one might expect at a first go in what ever car. The times when I have taken the time to work on setups I do notice the changes I've made. I think ATM the focus is to find a good balance between under and oversteer without being overly grippy or tire grip be overbearing and the car to handle extremely well due to that balance. This is why what David I is saying of his experiences is important once he is asked to go into a little bit of detail. I can agree pivot points of the car I consider important to where it does not seem like the car is turning by the rear wheel and the whole car follows a line from front wheels to rear wheels rather than the rear wheels stepping out of that line as the car rounds the corner. I see this in a few sims when watching chase view camera even if the feel of the car in no way suggests it's happening. At least for me AC drives quite nicely people like the sim quality of it FTMP and most comments are positive. However in chase view there is that visual behavior that would almost suggest that the rear wheels step out a little bit as to where one would expect the line to be when cornering and I think it's just something that's hard to simulate.

 

[Andy_J]

If I could twist Crammond's arm and force him back behind a KB for long periods of time I surly would try. There was a rumor that he was invited to be involved with pCARS on an official level but seems to be content with his life the way it is. Live on old code Guru I say we still miss what he brought to the genre.

That would have been great Birddogg. With GC's involvement it would surely have been something special.

God, how nice it is here without any petty bickering. I am enjoying it more now. Some good conversation and game discussion without rude remarks.

I just drove 5 laps of the Nord ( I just can't help myself, I love that circuit and I can't wait to ride it for real next year) in the Ford Capri. It was better than I thought it would be. Loved the car and how it feels right now. Just gelled with it. Think I'll try a Lotus open wheeler next. I am also still comparing Pcars with Shift 2 ( with and without the Ultimate Mod) and Pcars handles quite a bit better now. Still has a slight centre pivot feel but no where near as much as S2. Pcars is moving along nicely.

Cheers
Andy

 

[Birddogg66]

At the moment I am not totally crazy about some of the default car setups(which don't need to be perfect but good and inviting) and find I am able to make a difference with tweaking the setup of the car for results more to my liking. The tire compound options are a big help. The fact that aero tweaks are based on a "percentage of" rather than actual "degree of" angles is a little bit of a draw back for me but works enough to make changes. Seems that ATM with aero equal amounts of DF are offered in default for front and rear DF and if people complain of an under or over steer situation look to these values to see if you can make the adjustment that suit you.

 

[Damage Inc]

God, how nice it is here without any petty bickering. I am enjoying it more now. Some good conversation and game discussion without rude remarks.

Yup I have to agree with Andy's sentiments here, especially since he's stopped the petty remarks himself.

The Capri is one of my faves, I can also recommend all 3 of the Ariels for a good fun blast.

Hopefully I'll get some time to test the Ai a bit as there's been some changes.

 

[Andy_J]

Seems that ATM with aero equal amounts of DF are offered in default for front and rear DF and if people complain of an under or over steer situation look to these values to see if you can make the adjustment that suit you.

Noted Birddogg. Thanks for the info. I am devoting a few hours of tweaking setups tomorrow. I'll let you know how I get on.

Andy

 

[RaceNut]

Yeah, the Ariel's, Capri and Mono are probably my favorite cars to drive at the moment. They all seem to have good overall driving characteristics but, the Mono can be a "balancing act" in terms of throttle control.

 

[Andy_J]

Had a ball driving this BMW at the Nord this morning. Delved into some setup work and some changes to the FFB profile I was using and this felt great and sounded great. Really really enjoyed the laps I did. The replay looked sublime except for some dodgy camera angles. After watching the replay once though, it would not work again at all on any track and any car. Still some teething problems to iron out there.

As you can see, the game looks very similar to Shift 2 hence you will always get people comparing them. That's not a bad thing though. They look great.

Track is Nordshliefe full.
Weather light clouds.
Time is 14:00 hrs on 20th July. A very nice summers day for a blast.

 

[Birddogg66]

Had a ball driving this BMW at the Nord this morning. Delved into some setup work and some changes to the FFB profile I was using and this felt great and sounded great. Really really enjoyed the laps I did. The replay looked sublime except for some dodgy camera angles. After watching the replay once though, it would not work again at all on any track and any car. Still some teething problems to iron out there.

As you can see, the game looks very similar to Shift 2 hence you will always get people comparing them. That's not a bad thing though. They look great.

Track is Nordshliefe full.
Weather light clouds.
Time is 14:00 hrs on 20th July. A very nice summers day for a blast.

Nice Screenshots

 

[Birddogg66]

If anyone gets this issue what is in the screenshot I added when trying to log on. I ended up totally removing pCARS and related folders and reinstalled. This takes you back to the last Jr. build. Then you have to reset the frequency of how often you receive updates, Because it reverts back to opt out and you will be stuck on that build. After all the updates am am able to log on but still getting a crash when exiting the program which is minor

Not saying everyone is getting this issue but there have been a few

 

[traind]

I put a fair amount of time in this weekend with pcars after having driven little over the past 3 weeks. Tire models seem to have taken a big jump forward in the GT space-- as Andy alluded to earlier in the post with those nice screenshots above. I think the Mustang GT4 equivalent feels good right now with a nice balance of grip but if you push too far it will come around. It also seemed to be one of the better cars regarding FFB for me this weekend-- some of the others I tried really felt weak in ffb with my g25.

Upon what I read here I went back in to test the Atoms-- and voila-- they now feel so much better than the last time I drove them. For a while they felt completely broken and now they are fun again. But I think the Atom 300 has too little lift throttle oversteer right now-- from what I understand it is a core handling feature of the real car and I couldn't really sense it today (I only drove a few laps with it but I was on Suzuka east trying to provoke it so I think it would have reared its head in the S curves if it was present.

I tried out the Ruf model closest to the 911 and it was fun. Nicely controllable power on oversteer at Suzuka east. The old Ford touring car--the escort I think-- was interesting. It looks like the car is far from complete but the handling really gave the impression of an old car with a soft suspension which turned out to be entertaining.

I also like the Oreca LMP2 car quite a lot even though the FFB on it seems to need some work.

And some of the tracks I haven't tried in a few months are really coming along graphically. Lakeville (Sonoma) in particular now looks terrific.

Overall it seems like the tire model is coming along well and now I hope the FFB starts to get refined & adjusted to match it.

 

[Damage Inc]

I did a lot of testing of almost all the cars, standout cars for me in this test (in my non expert opinion) (all default setups @ Silverstone International) are:

Merc SLS, Pagani Cinque, Radical Sr3, GT40, Capri, M3 GT, M3 GT4, Z4 GT3, SLS GT3, Zonda R, BMW E30, Merc 190E DTM, Lotus 49.
That's not to say the other cars I tested weren't good, this lot for me have a brilliant blend of stability, pointability, and throttle oversteer. All that equals a lot of fun, without being too bland.

However I hated the Sauber C9, Had no grip at all and I kept spinning at Stowe with turn in/lift off oversteer, I could just about get round that corner at 70-80 mph, where other cars (even road cars) are 80+. I can't imagine the real car was that bad!

Mustang Cobra had lots of turn in/lift off oversteer at the same point so I didn't enjoy it much either.
300SEL was a complete tank, so not a fave. Once I got used to the amount of steering needed I sort of had fun!
Mustang Boss, Ginetta G55 and Merc C DTM, all felt a little bit too loose at the rear. A default setup should be more stable IMO. Still had fuin in them though!

Default brakes on the Sierra felt too weak on default IMO
Escort is awesome but still a slight "vague/floaty feeling around the centre of the steering)

I felt that the BMW gp5, BMW M1 and the Stock Car were a bit too stable at the rear, not once did I get power oversteer and that doesn't quite jive with my expectations.

Cat SP300 - Rev counter was only half way when I hit the rev limiter
Watched a replay when driving the Merc SLS, when I went back all cones/brake markers etc had gone!

So all in all, I'm more than happy at this moment (although still not tested latest Ai changes yet).

 

[RaceNut]

I did a lot of testing of almost all the cars, standout cars for me in this test (in my non expert opinion) (all default setups @ Silverstone International) are:

Merc SLS, Pagani Cinque, Radical Sr3, GT40, Capri, M3 GT, M3 GT4, Z4 GT3, SLS GT3, Zonda R, BMW E30, Merc 190E DTM, Lotus 49.
That's not to say the other cars I tested weren't good, this lot for me have a brilliant blend of stability, pointability, and throttle oversteer. All that equals a lot of fun, without being too bland.

However I hated the Sauber C9, Had no grip at all and I kept spinning at Stowe with turn in/lift off oversteer, I could just about get round that corner at 70-80 mph, where other cars (even road cars) are 80+. I can't imagine the real car was that bad!

Mustang Cobra had lots of turn in/lift off oversteer at the same point so I didn't enjoy it much either.
300SEL was a complete tank, so not a fave. Once I got used to the amount of steering needed I sort of had fun!
Mustang Boss, Ginetta G55 and Merc C DTM, all felt a little bit too loose at the rear. A default setup should be more stable IMO. Still had fuin in them though!

Default brakes on the Sierra felt too weak on default IMO
Escort is awesome but still a slight "vague/floaty feeling around the centre of the steering)

I felt that the BMW gp5, BMW M1 and the Stock Car were a bit too stable at the rear, not once did I get power oversteer and that doesn't quite jive with my expectations.

Cat SP300 - Rev counter was only half way when I hit the rev limiter
Watched a replay when driving the Merc SLS, when I went back all cones/brake markers etc had gone!

So all in all, I'm more than happy at this moment (although still not tested latest Ai changes yet).

Nice report Damage, after turning some more laps last night, I have to say that the overall handling is really feeling better now with most cars. Once the FFB is dialed in, it should help to make us feel more connected to the car and the track.

 

[Damage Inc]

Nice report Damage, after turning some more laps last night, I have to say that the overall handling is really feeling better now with most cars. Once the FFB is dialed in, it should help to make us feel more connected to the car and the track.

Yup, even with ffb far from 100% I'm getting good fun from this sim. Only fear I have is time constraints and the Nov release date....still a hell of a lot to do, although I presume developers seriously burn the midnight oil in the run up to release!

 

[RaceNut]

Yup, even with ffb far from 100% I'm getting good fun from this sim. Only fear I have is time constraints and the Nov release date....still a hell of a lot to do, although I presume developers seriously burn the midnight oil in the run up to release!

Yes, there is a lot of work to do but, it is a substantial team at SMS so with some extra effort . . . , of course, it wouldn't be the first time a developer didn't make a release date. There is also a good number of testers at work, many of them work day and night for peanuts.

 

[Andy_J]

There is also a good number of testers at work, many of them work day and night for peanuts.

The majority of the testers actually paid to test, evaluate and give feedback.

 

[Andy_J]

Had another blast around Laguna Seca in the Merc. Great stuff but loads of understeer with standard setup. Great sounding car though. Had some fun throwing it around. Force Feedback seems to drift in and out though and not very strong and I have adjusted it quite high. Still it's coming along nicely.

 

[Kjell Eilertsen]

Wow Andy, you're turning into a regular pcars fanboy! Get out while you can m8 else you'll be lost forever!
On a more serious note, great screenshots, I've had some fun in the later builds too and have to agree, it's come a long way and are closer to a sim that I had expected it to ever come, but there's still lots of work to be done.
I wonder how much of the content will be cut for release, there's a few cars and tracks that have yet to be officially licensed and while there's still lots of time there's no guarantee that they'll be able to score all the licenses they want by release, I really hope they get Nordschleife though, would be a major bummer if not ><

Lastly I am afraid that I will have to upgrade my rig for pcars to run properly, it seems a fair bit more resource heavy than for instance AC, but then again there's a lot more eyecandy too so it's not unexpected.

 

[Rob Every]

Some of us also paid to test, but due to some rather heavy handed marshaling of other areas of sim forums were told we had to ahve our money back, no argument.

Its a strange little world they live in, but they seem happy bless them.