PC1 Latest Build testing.

[Andy_J]

As you all know, Ian gave me a free pass to test the latest builds and that's what I have been doing for the last week. I will report here as and when I see fit to tell all about my findings.

But I will say that the latest build (296) is quite good. Now lets make some sense of my statement. I used a Lotus 98T in helmet cam using my antique MOMO red wheel and I can honestly report it is coming along much better than I anticipated. The actual feel and immersion is damn fine at this point. The handling is strange at first compared to say...RF2 and FVA, but it grows on you within minutes. At this point in time, this actual car feels good. I like it and I love the Milan circuit. The damage model has come on leaps and bounds.

I am doing some more testing all of next week using a G27 and I will also test some of the other cars that don't interest me as much (I am a F1 nut) and see how the feel in comparison to Shift 2, because that is what I was initially comparing PCars to.

I would like the replay function to have a directors mode though. Something that jumps from action to action and from car to car.

Aside from that, the replay's do crash my PC quite often but I understand that is being looked at.

Watch this space.

 

[Graham Byford]

Having similar "feelings" and being the same are two different things.

How do i know that currently its capable of delivering advanced physics when compared with the old version? Well for first i read the forums constantly since i joined the project, i keep up with every update and info released by the game and i test it on a daily basis whenever a change is introduced. The whole concept they presented about STM and the constant discussions they have with the community about it show that it is possible and it has been proven many times.
I also am able to read the feedback from the community and compare it to my own in order to know if im having some sort of placebo effect or if in fact its improving and for the time i've been there i noticed a constant evolution.
A friend of mine which is a bit of a skeptic about pCARS also comes here once and while to try it out and his feedback shows that the game is getting better each time theres a update in this area.

The developers been working on STM for less than a year, they had BTM before while STM was being developed. (BTM= Brush Tire Model // STM= Seta Tire Model)
The physics engine was upgraded and it will keep on being until it reaches the results expected, this is something the developers have made clear since the intruduction of STM.

You may ask why you cant feel anything different from Shift, could be many reasons (suppositions to follow), you expect it to be done already, working perfectly just because the game has been in development for so long (in your perspective), you didnt set up your wheel the right way, you try one car and then stop because that one feels bad, you dont want to like it, or something else i cannot think of now. (all suppositions)

Its true the tires are not there yet, still a long way to go until we can call them great, from then on i expect them to start working/tweaking the feedback from other components like suspension,chassis, steering and achive the goal of a great simulation.

We still haven't seen an advanced level of physics that is my point and until will do I will be doubtful because there is no evidence so far of this. I'm well aware of the status of the game I've been involved in the project from the start and frequently read and post on the forum. What you have posted above are just your beliefs of a possible outcome and what you have been told by devs/mods, you aren't evaluating the actual physical output.

Granted there has been improvements but it still can't produce a realistic level of physics and the game is due to release this year. The devs can make all kind of claims of where it will end up, but until I experience it I will continue to be doubtful.

 

[Bruno Pereira]

We still haven't seen an advanced level of physics that is my point and until will do I will be doubtful because there is no evidence so far of this. I'm well aware of the status of the game I've been involved in the project from the start and frequently read and post on the forum. What you have posted above are just your beliefs of a possible outcome and what you have been told by devs/mods, you aren't evaluating the actual physical output.

Granted there has been improvements but it still can't produce a realistic level of physics and the game is due to release this year. The devs can make all kind of claims of where it will end up, but until I experience it I will continue to be doubtful.

You can only see advanced physics when the basic is covered, currently its still being worked on, its like having a semi built car with a V8, you know what the V8 is capable of but you do not know how far from that you can go until you finish it.

I trust more than i believe, because theres evidences it is possible, theres feedback coming, everytime the physics get updated, something gets improved, theres a change for better. Every report about something wrong or in dire need by Ben or Nicolas gets a fix and we see them reacting to that in a positive way so something is evolving, lets not forget this is an engine that belongs to SMS, its not something they acquired the licence and do not know the limitations of, they know every inch of it and they can make anything possible
The developers are more than capable of handling the timeline they have especially with the recent additions of staff members, theres alot of stuff happening in the background dont forget that.

What we see is only half of what exists.

 

[Graham Byford]

You can only see advanced physics when the basic is covered, currently its still being worked on, its like having a semi built car with a V8, you know what the V8 is capable of but you do not know how far from that you can go until you finish it.

I trust more than i believe, because theres evidences it is possible, theres feedback coming, everytime the physics get updated, something gets improved, theres a change for better. Every report about something wrong or in dire need by Ben or Nicolas gets a fix and we see them reacting to that in a positive way so something is evolving, lets not forget this is an engine that belongs to SMS, its not something they acquired the licence and do not know the limitations of, they know every inch of it and they can make anything possible
The developers are more than capable of handling the timeline they have especially with the recent additions of staff members, theres alot of stuff happening in the background dont forget that.

What we see is only half of what exists.

Again, this isn't evidence...

No car in the game has a good physical response and never has, there is no evidence so far that this is possible.

If you read around the forum enough you should know that anything isn't possible, more than one physics dev has commented on the limitations of the physics engine.

I don't think we are going to get anywhere here, we have very different ideas of what constitutes evidence, I base my evidence on what I actually play every week, you base yours on promises that may or may not ever happen. Anyway hopefully in the future we can discuss the game again when the physics have shown some major improvement, until that happens I won't be putting much time into the game.

 

[Bruno Pereira]

Again, this isn't evidence...

No car in the game has a good physical response and never has, there is no evidence so far that this is possible.

You say they havnt but plenty of other users say the contraire, that there are cars that present a very good physical response at the moment.

If you read around the forum enough you should know that anything isn't possible, more than one physics dev has commented on the limitations of the physics engine.

I read the forums constantly, im probably one of the few that actually reads it all. The developers always mentioned that the limitations only existed in terms of hardware capabilities to handle the physics not the other way around, thus why some users recently with dual cores been experiencing slow performance issues.

I don't think we are going to get anywhere here, we have very different ideas of what constitutes evidence, I base my evidence on what I actually play every week, you base yours on promises that may or may not ever happen. Anyway hopefully in the future we can discuss the game again when the physics have shown some major improvement, until that happens I won't be putting much time into the game.

You base your evidences on the same thing i do, but just because i also trust on the developers capabilities you call mine "not evidence" and yours evidence, whats the criteria here Graham ?

You cannot expect a tire model to be developed in a short time, AC been working on theirs for ages (more than 2 years) and even they havnt perfected it but you expect pCARS physics levels to be perfect in 5 months (17/9/2012 first pass on the tires was tested by the devs).
But i do agree that it is better that you test them later on as it seems that somehow you cant see any improvements at all on something that as clearly been evolving.

 

[Graham Byford]

You say they havnt but plenty of other users say the contraire, that there are cars that present a very good physical response at the moment.


I read the forums constantly, im probably one of the few that actually reads it all. The developers always mentioned that the limitations only existed in terms of hardware capabilities to handle the physics not the other way around, thus why some users recently with dual cores been experiencing slow performance issues.


You base your evidences on the same thing i do, but just because i also trust on the developers capabilities you call mine "not evidence" and yours evidence, whats the criteria here Graham ?

You cannot expect a tire model to be developed in a short time, AC been working on theirs for ages (more than 2 years) and even they havnt perfected it but you expect pCARS physics levels to be perfect in 5 months (17/9/2012 first pass on the tires was tested by the devs).
But i do agree that it is better that you test them later on as it seems that somehow you cant see any improvements at all on something that as clearly been evolving.

We're just going around in circles here again and you continue to state things I haven't said like in your last paragraph so I no longer wish to discuss this with you any further.

My criteria for evidence is testing the physics output and response of each weekly build, that's how you test physics and understand the facts.

Many users that post on the forum are biased as they are financially or otherwise involved, I do not take there opinions or posts seriously, especially if they're stating the cars have a very good physical repsonse when they don't.

I've tested the latest build and once again none of the cars show a good physical response, they're all still lacking in known key areas as identified numerous times both here and on WMD.

 

[Bruno Pereira]

We're just going around in circles here again and you continue to state things I haven't said like in your last paragraph so I no longer wish to discuss this with you any further.

My criteria for evidence is testing the physics output and response of each weekly build, that's how you test physics and understand the facts.

I use the same criteria but i have feedback from others to see if im being biased or not, tho you still consider mine as invalid or not worthy of being evidence. Im just trying to figure out why you think that way.

Many users that post on the forum are biased as they are financially or otherwise involved, I do not take there opinions or posts seriously, especially if they're stating the cars have a very good physical repsonse when they don't.

That's wrong Graham, even IF there were people financially involved, if the game doesnt sell they wont get anything from it. In the end the reviews are what gonna tell if this game is worth or not to buy and i dont see why they would shoot their own feet by giving bad feedback and leading the game in the wrong direction

I've tested the latest build and once again none of the cars show a good physical response, they're all still lacking in known key areas as identified numerous times both here and on WMD.

Again could it be something on your side? I mean even Andy noticed 1 car that was a big improvement, how cant you see any

 

[Graham Byford]

Bruno I've had enough now, I'm 99% sure you are a Mod on WMD so this discussion is over, if I'd known this many pages back I never would have got involved, it makes sense now.

I will continue to post my thoughts on the weekly builds when I can.

 

[Bruno Pereira]

Bruno I've had enough now, I'm 99% sure you are a Mod on WMD so this discussion is over, if I'd known this many pages back I never would have got involved, it makes sense now.

I will continue to post my thoughts on the weekly builds when I can.

Well if that certainty and sense of judgement is what you are using as a evidence that there are no physic upgrades/improvements whatsoever, no wonder you are not noticing anything, you are definatly wrong about me.

Cant for more feedback, tho

 

[Mapu]

You cannot expect a tire model to be developed in a short time, AC been working on theirs for ages (more than 2 years) and even they havnt perfected it but you expect pCARS physics levels to be perfect in 5 months (17/9/2012 first pass on the tires was tested by the devs).

If pCars devs would have been clever they would have taken the experience from the "Shift" games and developed their (careful: once a commercial statement from SMS) advanced and close to reality physics engine further. These games have been in development since a long time too (released in 2009!). So the argument that Asetto Corsa has been in development for much longer doesn't really fit. I'm not saying SMS devs are "stupid" either, because I am certain they used parts of the "Shift" games and improved them; well actually it is obvious, many entities look way too familiar. Besides, even modders where able to fix those "Shift" games to a certain level and what modders can do, devs at least should be able to do the same, if not better!

Nothing is perfect but while SMS does the talking and shows little improvement, AC is setting new standard in the department of physics (at the moment).

 

[Graham Byford]

Well if that certainty and sense of judgement is what you are using as a evidence that there are no physic upgrades/improvements whatsoever, no wonder you are not noticing anything, you are definatly wrong about me.

Cant for more feedback, tho

Come on, you are involved with SMS there is a certain Bruno over on WMD and you are him that is a fact, I can see your full name on your WMD profile. You have even attempted to advertise PCARS on other forums since starting your "role" but thankfully the mods prevented you from doing so.

Once again you are saying things I have not said, why do you keep doing that? I have stated in many posts there have been improvements over the development cycle.

 

[Bruno Pereira]

If pCars devs would have been clever they would have taken the experience from the "Shift" games and developed their (careful: once a commercial statement from SMS) advanced and close to reality physics engine further. These games have been in development since a long time too (released in 2009!). So the argument that Asetto Corsa has been in development for much longer doesn't really fit. I'm not saying SMS devs are "stupid" either, because I am certain they used parts of the "Shift" games and improved them; well actually it is obvious, many entities look way too familiar. Besides, even modders where able to fix those "Shift" games to a certain level and what modders can do, devs at least should be able to do the same, if not better!

Nothing is perfect but while SMS does the talking and shows little improvement, AC is setting new standard in the department of physics (at the moment).

The engine belongs to SMS, all the work made during their work for EA belongs to EA, theres no such work being currently or previously used in pCARS

Come on, you are involved with SMS there is a certain Bruno over on WMD and you are him that is a fact, I can see your full name on your WMD profile. You have even attempted to advertise PCARS on other forums since starting your "role" but thankfully the mods prevented you from doing so.

Once again you are saying things I have not said, why do you keep doing that? I have stated in many posts there have been improvements over the development cycle.

I admit it would be fun to be involved with SMS, but i am not. I am as much involved as any other member of Project CARS Community.

Advertisement is such a wrong word to describe what i do, just keeping others informed about the project . The same way you do when you create a thread or post saying the last game you tried was good and others should check it, or those that like a kickstarter project and speak about it throughout the internet.

What role is that Graham, i would like to know much more about it !?

 

[Mapu]

The engine belongs to SMS, all the work made during their work for EA belongs to EA, theres no such work being currently or previously used in pCARS

Of course.I was talking about the engine. not?

Speaking of content, ever looked at the files and their content; textures for example? Some do or did look highly familiar. But to be honest... I do not care.

 

[Graham Byford]

I admit it would be fun to be involved with SMS, but i am not. I am as much involved as any other member of Project CARS Community.

Advertisement is such a wrong word to describe what i do, just keeping others informed about the project . The same way you do when you create a thread or post saying the last game you tried was good and others should check it, or those that like a kickstarter project and speak about it throughout the internet.

What role is that Graham, i would like to know much more about it !?

Since being appointed a role on WMD you have gained extra privileges and tried to infiltrate other forums where many of your posts were deleted as the mods saw straight through you, this I know for a fact. You are no longer a neutral member of WMD and not a normal user, therefore I don't fully value any of your posts and never will and I no longer want to discuss the game any further with you here.

It would be nice to have an open honest discussion on each build, but that isn't possible now with you posting here everytime something negative is posted, I'm just annoyed I didn't notice this sooner as I've wasted enough time replying to you.

 

[Bruno Pereira]

Of course.I was talking about the engine. not?

Speaking of content, ever looked at the files and their content; textures for example? Some do or did look highly familiar. But to be honest... I do not care.

A engine has always assets used for tech display, the developers before being hired present a tech demo with some components of their own that belong to them, they can be used for the project and any others they want to do since it belongs to them. Only the work created during the work for other companies cannot be used. Speculation wont lead you anywhere.

Since being appointed a role on WMD you have gained extra privileges and tried to infiltrate other forums where many of your posts were deleted as the mods saw straight through you, this I know for a fact. You are no longer a neutral member of WMD and not a normal user, therefore I don't fully value any of your posts and never will and I no longer want to discuss the game any further with you here.

It would be nice to have an open honest discussion on each build, but that isn't possible now with you posting here everytime something negative is posted, I'm just annoyed I didn't notice this sooner as I've wasted enough time replying to you.

Role? They gave me a title (letters under my name), since you seem to know so much why dont you share with the fellow RD members what it is and what i get from it.

I recall the deletion of posts happening in a forum yes, but that issue is being handled with the admins as the person in charge seems to not have a slight knowledge on how to differenciate advertisement for public information. Dont tell me you do know the difference as well ? I expected more from you Graham.

Why do you consider myself not being a neutral member ?
I can tell you i would be the same person with or without the title, even if the FSA closed down the current way of working on WMD i would still be the same.

As much as some may try to make me look like some "lacky" of SMS/WMD i am not, honestly sometimes i wish i didnt had the title as it seems some people dont have the IQ to dig a bit before starting with these defamations about my person or interests they come up with.

Im sorry but i've seen some negative posts before and i didnt intervene, again, im not a cop nor i am here to "moderate" or "control" what is said in these forums, im here as the other side of the coin. You guys express your opinion on the game, im expressing mine, i recall hearing Andy speaking how important it is for people to be free to express them and thats all im doing and i hope everyone is able to do as well.
All i ask is, do not try to create deffamation or speculation about the project based on vendettas, grudges or personal interests.

Shall we try now to get back on topic, i have my fair share in the offtopic i know but im willing to try, what about you ?

 

[Andy_J]

Role? They gave me a title (letters under my name), since you seem to know so much why dont you share with the fellow RD members what it is and what i get from it.

I recall the deletion of posts happening in a forum yes, but that issue is being handled with the admins as the person in charge seems to not have a slight knowledge on how to differenciate advertisement for public information.

Well that explains a few things. I might have known but obviously I was not intelligent enough to do some digging. (read: not bothered). Bruno I now understand why you come on here with all guns blazing in defense of anything Pcars and why you attempt to put anyone down with a negative opinion.

Why do some people always have to be so sneaky?

 

[Mark Quigley]

Sim developer #1 : Hay look see this project cars thingy!
Sim developer #2 : Cool, kind of like a kickstarter, lets keep an eye on this as we might go this way for our next project.

Some months later....

Sim developer #1 : OH wow, they are getting shredded on some forums!
Sim developer #2 : Imagine if our last title was open to public scrutiny, remember the mess it was in after 6/12/18 months
Sim developer #1 : Yeh, almost unplayable.
Sim developer #2 : Lets not involve the public with our next project.
Sim developer #1 : Yes, lets not.

 

[Bruno Pereira]

Well that explains a few things. I might have known but obviously I was not intelligent enough to do some digging. (read: not bothered).

Common Andy dont beat yourself up, i think you are kinda intelligent to be honest.

Bruno I now understand why you come on here with all guns blazing in defense of anything Pcars and why you attempt to put anyone down with a negative opinion.

Where have you seen me going "guns blazing" in defense of pcars so far or even putting someone down due to a negative "opinion" in here Andy, common i thought we already had left these insinuations behind us

Why do some people always have to be so sneaky?

No one ever asked me, so i dont see why you say im sneaky Andy

 

[Andy_J]

Where have you seen me going "guns blazing" in defense of pcars so far or even putting someone down due to a negative "opinion" in here Andy, common i thought we already had left these insinuations behind us

Un-believable Bruno. You really are.

 

[Bruno Pereira]

Un-believable Bruno. You really are.

Hug?

 

[Majnu]

Some people don't know how to take constructive criticism it seems. Remind me to bring pop corn next time I read this thread.

Some members Pcars affiliates are doing more damage to the game than good by constantly defending it when an ounze of negativity is said towards it.

Believe me it's not only on this forum, but every gaming or sim racing forum I'm a member of and quite frankly it's boring and hinders any good discussion and feedback experienced sim racers have to say about this game as it turns into a comedy show and nothing but bickering.

This isn't a PCars recruitment campaign - It's a sim racing forum where we gamers (not PCars advertisers) are entitled to our unbiased, unprejudiced opinion whether the game is ****, good or has potential.

I wish the Staff of this forum would infract/suspend individuals known to get loyalties from WMD as I've seen on other gaming forums.

Hopefully this thread will get back on track. (Pun Intended)