PC1 Latest Build testing.

[Andy_J]

As you all know, Ian gave me a free pass to test the latest builds and that's what I have been doing for the last week. I will report here as and when I see fit to tell all about my findings.

But I will say that the latest build (296) is quite good. Now lets make some sense of my statement. I used a Lotus 98T in helmet cam using my antique MOMO red wheel and I can honestly report it is coming along much better than I anticipated. The actual feel and immersion is damn fine at this point. The handling is strange at first compared to say...RF2 and FVA, but it grows on you within minutes. At this point in time, this actual car feels good. I like it and I love the Milan circuit. The damage model has come on leaps and bounds.

I am doing some more testing all of next week using a G27 and I will also test some of the other cars that don't interest me as much (I am a F1 nut) and see how the feel in comparison to Shift 2, because that is what I was initially comparing PCars to.

I would like the replay function to have a directors mode though. Something that jumps from action to action and from car to car.

Aside from that, the replay's do crash my PC quite often but I understand that is being looked at.

Watch this space.

 

[Bruno Pereira]

Default FFB but I did some changes to my logitech properties. Worked for me.

Could you share the changes you made, maybe it will help others!?

 

[Andy_J]

The main change I did Bruno was to un-tick the box in properties that said allow game to adjust settings. Plus allowing centering spring etc. I also dabbled with a few of the settings to mirror my Race 07 and GTR2 settings and it worked for me, but only this one car, the BMW M3. I like it with these settings. But I use a MOMO Red and a Momo Black and not many use them these days.

 

[ONT]

"The "Ruf" is on placeholder physics right now. Proper set will be in for Friday's build."


On FFB, most important IMHO is not to get "Clipping", lowering the tire force in settings to around 50 and setting FFB to 100 fix most cars (but not all).

Using the telemetry tool for each car is the best test.

 

[Andy_J]

I didn't drive the RUF.

 

[Flawl3ssVctry]

Don't get the idea that it's all lovey dovey with Pcars. The sound quality of replays on other tracks and other cars for me is dire and worse than Test Drive or Outrun. Also the physics on most of the cars needs a hell of a lot of work yet. But that M3 around the Nord was sublime. They have that real good so far.

More tyre changes coming on Friday, including the Slick_Green that the M3 runs on.

Might be better, might be worse. Just a heads up. Don't love/hate any of them yet, all certainly WIP.

 

[Andy_J]

I know it's all WIP floorlossvictry. We keep getting reminded of that fact.

 

[Mapu]

lol

 

[Mark Quigley]

Also the physics on most of the cars needs a hell of a lot of work yet. But that M3 around the Nord was sublime. They have that real good so far.

Shirley the cars individually do not have physics but data which is fed into the physics engine to produce a result?
People say the physics suck but some cars are ok, thats like me saying physics change when i go swimming, I do not go swimming because i'm a short fat hairy man with breasts.
I just do not get it, not the swimming but what people mean when they say "poopy physics"
It is a WIP after all

 

[Graham Byford]

Shirley the cars individually do not have physics but data which is fed into the physics engine to produce a result?
People say the physics suck but some cars are ok, thats like me saying physics change when i go swimming, I do not go swimming because i'm a short fat hairy man with breasts.
I just do not get it, not the swimming but what people mean when they say "poopy physics"
It is a WIP after all

Some cars are ok to drive but none show a physical response as good as the rival sims in my opinion both past and present. So what does that mean? the WIP physics engine needs more work done on it not the data being fed into it and not just the tyres.

 

[Andy_J]

Shirley the cars individually do not have physics but data which is fed into the physics engine to produce a result?

I would say each car obviously handles differently and don't call me Shirley.

 

[Bruno Pereira]

Uhmm "Shirley", why i havnt had heard about this term before..

The current physics engine is very capable of delivering what it is needed for the game to have a proper response, the difference i see is that SMS decided to start building from the tire feedback up, while other games like AC for example did the contraire, they begun working on the steering feedback and then move from then on to the tires feedback.

I believe once the tire model is fully set on every car type and power currently available that it will not take much until they get a proper feedback in that area.

Only time will tell so we have to wait and see.

 

[Graham Byford]

Uhmm "Shirley", why i havnt had heard about this term before..

The current physics engine is very capable of delivering what it is needed for the game to have a proper response, the difference i see is that SMS decided to start building from the tire feedback up, while other games like AC for example did the contraire, they begun working on the steering feedback and then move from then on to the tires feedback.

I believe once the tire model is fully set on every car type and power currently available that it will not take much until they get a proper feedback in that area.

Only time will tell so we have to wait and see.

How do you know the physics engine is very capable of delivering what is needed for the game to have a proper response? Do you have a crystal ball? Because I've seen no evidence that this is the case so far yet you seem convinced, what is your reasoning for this?

AC began from a much better starting point, that being Netkar with a physics engine already capable of good physical response. Project cars started from an unconvincing physics engine that was used in the Shift games and unfortunately some of these characteristics can still be seen and felt in the latest builds.

 

[Bruno Pereira]

How do you know the physics engine is very capable of delivering what is needed for the game to have a proper response? Do you have a crystal ball? Because I've seen no evidence that this is the case so far yet you seem convinced, what is your reasoning for this?

AC began from a much better starting point, that being Netkar with a physics engine already capable of good physical response. Project cars started from an unconvincing physics engine that was used in the Shift games and unfortunately some of these characteristics can still be seen and felt in the latest builds.

I will answer with a question.
How do you know its the exact same engine used in Shift 2 and that it isnt capable of ?

 

[Graham Byford]

So you won't answer my question?

To answer yours, I never stated its the "exact" same engine used in Shift2 you have added that in yourself, but in the early builds it played almost identical and still shows many similarities so is very likely using a very similar physics engine. Is it capable of good physics? well it hasn't so far Shift, Shift 2 and PCARS have not shown it to be as of yet, hence the speculation.

For some reason you seem convinced it's capable of proper physical response but are unwilling to say why that is?

As it currently stands the devs have worked on in for nearly 18 months now probably longer behind the scenes, but I've yet to experience good solid physics. I really hope they makes the changes required for that to be the case, suspension and chassis response is where it's lagging behind and the tyres are still not there.

 

[John Bergman]

So you won't answer my question?

To answer yours, I never stated its the "exact" same engine used in Shift2 you have added that in yourself, but in the early builds it played almost identical and still shows many similarities so is very likely using a very similar physics engine. Is it capable of good physics? well it hasn't so far Shift, Shift 2 and PCARS have not shown it to be as of yet, hence the speculation.

For some reason you seem convinced it's capable of proper physical response but are unwilling to say why that is?

As it currently stands the devs have worked on in for nearly 18 months now probably longer behind the scenes, but I've yet to experience good solid physics. I really hope they makes the changes required for that to be the case, suspension and chassis response is where it's lagging behind and the tyres are still not there.

Are you playing the same pCars as me? I think pCars is closer to rF2 than it is to Shift2 right now for just handling physics. It is maybe still like Shift in sound and palette I agree with.

I think also that rF2 is in the lead for physics. pCars is close and iR is close in their own ways. AC is good but hard to tell with just one car. AC is not a giant leap ahead though. I think it is what it is. An evolution of nKp which is a good thing to be.

I really do not feel any similarity of pCars to Shift any more.

 

[Bruno Pereira]

So you won't answer my question?

To answer yours, I never stated its the "exact" same engine used in Shift2 you have added that in yourself, but in the early builds it played almost identical and still shows many similarities so is very likely using a very similar physics engine. Is it capable of good physics? well it hasn't so far Shift, Shift 2 and PCARS have not shown it to be as of yet, hence the speculation.

For some reason you seem convinced it's capable of proper physical response but are unwilling to say why that is?

As it currently stands the devs have worked on in for nearly 18 months now probably longer behind the scenes, but I've yet to experience good solid physics. I really hope they makes the changes required for that to be the case, suspension and chassis response is where it's lagging behind and the tyres are still not there.

Having similar "feelings" and being the same are two different things.

How do i know that currently its capable of delivering advanced physics when compared with the old version? Well for first i read the forums constantly since i joined the project, i keep up with every update and info released by the game and i test it on a daily basis whenever a change is introduced. The whole concept they presented about STM and the constant discussions they have with the community about it show that it is possible and it has been proven many times.
I also am able to read the feedback from the community and compare it to my own in order to know if im having some sort of placebo effect or if in fact its improving and for the time i've been there i noticed a constant evolution.
A friend of mine which is a bit of a skeptic about pCARS also comes here once and while to try it out and his feedback shows that the game is getting better each time theres a update in this area.

The developers been working on STM for less than a year, they had BTM before while STM was being developed. (BTM= Brush Tire Model // STM= Seta Tire Model)
The physics engine was upgraded and it will keep on being until it reaches the results expected, this is something the developers have made clear since the intruduction of STM.

You may ask why you cant feel anything different from Shift, could be many reasons (suppositions to follow), you expect it to be done already, working perfectly just because the game has been in development for so long (in your perspective), you didnt set up your wheel the right way, you try one car and then stop because that one feels bad, you dont want to like it, or something else i cannot think of now. (all suppositions)

Its true the tires are not there yet, still a long way to go until we can call them great, from then on i expect them to start working/tweaking the feedback from other components like suspension,chassis, steering and achive the goal of a great simulation.

 

[Justin Swan]

I like it....simple as that
I love the vibration in the cockpit when hitting the rev limiter, I think the FFB feels as good as anything else I've played and it looks visually better with each update. I have, however, only played in free practise and yet to try single race and MP etc so I have no idea what the damage physics are like. How it handles collisions etc....
But so far, so good

 

[RaceNut]

It makes a big difference what car you drive - the feel of the track cars is really very good IMO but, some cars feel very numb or unresponsive and the FFB is still lacking in a couple of areas. I really think that as all of the various aspects of the game are improved, the overall "driving feel" will come together. As it is , it still feels wrong when some aspects are far behind others - sound for one example.

If the team can raise all parts to the level of the graphics, then Pcars should be a huge success. Hopefully, the community will show more support by having a little faith in SMS, what they are trying to accomplish and recognize how much they have already done. Being a creative type myself, I speak from experience about how hard it is to have something that one puts their heart and soul into trashed and stomped on (literally) with no regard for their efforts. How many of us actually have any real knowledge of what goes into developing something like this? Even then, there is more than one way to do it.

I am no expert on physics but, I can give my opinion about what feels right, real or good to me and as long as that is improving, what more can I expect? For anyone looking for a guaranteed sure thing - there's always death and taxes.

 

[Justin Swan]

I think they have been typecast because of their previous works but this doesn't look or feel anything like them. This is definitely going down the sim road and not an arcade racer!

 

[Bruno Pereira]

Just a heads up, be sure to check this thread @ official forums in order to know what has been changed, everything in the first post (including 414/415/416) are important. (cant post the whole thing in here because of size)