Cars Lancia Fulvia 1.6 HF 1.5

[arthur666]

Any news on this mod? It was one of my all-time favorites. Beautiful model, very interesting to drive. Would love to see it updated one day. Rear wheels spend way too much time off the ground and ai can barely drive it for some reason.

 

[AccAkut]

Any news on this mod? It was one of my all-time favorites. Beautiful model, very interesting to drive. Would love to see it updated one day. Rear wheels spend way too much time off the ground and ai can barely drive it for some reason.

Take a good look into the credits next time you close AC, one of the modeller names may sound familiar

Maybe it turns up in a DLC one day, maybe its being tinkered on in silence, maybe development has halted. Sanchez wasn't active on RD in the last months.

 

[Leonardo Ratafiá]

@Amplified any sound update for this car? or it was never released by you?
The updates needed are on the physics side, Sanchez iirc worked on the 3d model only, but I'll try to find out if they will update it.

 

[RSanchezPaz]

RSanchezPaz updated Lancia Fulvia 1.6 HF with a new update entry:

Physics update of Fulvia HF and S1 according to Assetto Corsa 1.14.4

New update has been deployed. This update has been possible tnx to Matias Rivas (Matias918) who has updated the physics according to latest AC version and fixing odd stuff such as camera's and sounds.
About 2D and 3D, sadly im not having the time i use to, so i have to apologize about it. Wish i could give newer versions or fix many things i want and started to fix, but had to let them aside by many reasons. Tnx for your patience, and sorry for the lack of update again. We wanted to give...

Read the rest of this update entry...

 

[HarryRiedl]

Really pleased to see it updated. Live in hope that the V4 by @AmplifiedNL will return in the near future as it had one of the best notes of any car.

 

[christopherbrandonisio]

When at a stop or moving slowly, the car is bouncing around on the ground, making all the noises it would when going over bumps. Controller is vibrating, exterior camera view is jerking around. Has anyone else had this problem? On the newest version of AC if that matters.

 

[SvenUilhoorn]

Great work, but one question though: does someone have templates for this car?

 

[hal4000]

http://www.racedepartment.com/downloads/fulvia-1-6-hf-skin-template.9318/

 

[tristancliffe]

I've been driving this mod recently, and it needs a lot of work on the physics (or at least the base version; I haven't bothered with the S1 version yet) The torque curve is wrong, the default gearing is wrong, the tyre sizes are wrong, the damping is wrong, the differential is wrong (should be open), the anti roll wheel rates are wrong, I suspect the roll centre heights and axis are wrong, I'm going to check ride wheel rates if I can and some of the geometry.

It's far too oversteery, and that's not a recent thing because it was like that when it was first released and I tried it then (but not for long as it was so poor).

I'd love to work with the developers for this mod to get it improved, rather than just complain, as a Fulvia is such a lovely car to drive in real life (plus I'm driving one at Goodwood at the end of the month, which is a track completely unsuited to a Fulvia, but the Lancia Motor Club in their wisdom...).

The 3D model is nice, apart from some mistakes, and sound is passable even if it's nothing like a Fulvia, but the physics are just wrong in so many ways.

 

[tristancliffe]

The biggest single improvement came from (quicky) measuring the rear suspension coordinates. I had to take a bit of a liberty with where the leaf springs join the axle because doing it 'accurately' resulted in the axle twisting around the mounting points (which caused some amusing front-flips and rolls) so I've made the rear leg of the leaf springs join to the bottom of the axle. That will have a knock on effect with roll centre position, but it's probably negligible.

• Have moved the fuel tank to a more accurate position, and changed it's maximum size to 38 litres as per reality.
• Have changed power.lut to reflect real rolling road data.
• Have removed rev limiter
• Have corrected the final drive ratio in drivetrain.ini, and also re-did the decimal conversions in final.rto
• Have removed all differential locking
• Have slowed the shifting time by a factor of 2 to simulate the relatively long throw and slower syncromeshes.
• Have lowered the suggested shift point as nobody revs a standard Fulvia above 7000rpm!
• Have corrected the tyre width and radii, and might look at the rest of the tyre model eventually as the tyres seem a bit too stiff and responsive.
• Have guessed at much better anti-roll rates for the time being (the real cars have 16mm front anti-roll bars and 14mm rear anti-roll bars, but I haven't worked out motion ratios or their geometry into wheel rates yet.
• Have tweaked front suspension a tiny bit to give caster and KPI nearer Lancia's figures, but would like to measure pick up points properly.
• Have changed static front camber to reflect real standard value.
• Have increased front damping rates, particularly front bump) to get closer to what I think Lancia would have used (via my own hand calcs) [when I say my own hand calcs, I actually mean the hand calcs of a race engineer that used to work for me]
• Have changed all values of rear suspension geometry (X,Y,Z) with the caveat in opening paragraph, based on quick-and-dirty measurements with a tape measure and judging by eye. Would like to return to that when time (and a conveniently placed car in the workshop) permits.
• Tried tweaking the brake bias, but found that the static value would be wrong because of the pressure compensator on the rear axle, so stuck with 67%
• Have tweaked the setup.ini to accomodate the parameters changed a bit.

All a bit rough round the edges, and still a touch too much oversteer, but vastly improved already.

I shall not be sharing these with anyone other than the original content creators, including privately or via private message, so please don't feel threatened or wronged any more than you have to. My aim is to assist the creators to recreate the Fulvia at it's best.

 

[Leonardo Ratafiá]

The biggest single improvement came from (quicky) measuring the rear suspension coordinates. I had to take a bit of a liberty with where the leaf springs join the axle because doing it 'accurately' resulted in the axle twisting around the mounting points (which caused some amusing front-flips and rolls) so I've made the rear leg of the leaf springs join to the bottom of the axle. That will have a knock on effect with roll centre position, but it's probably negligible.

• Have moved the fuel tank to a more accurate position, and changed it's maximum size to 38 litres as per reality.
• Have changed power.lut to reflect real rolling road data.
• Have removed rev limiter
• Have corrected the final drive ratio in drivetrain.ini, and also re-did the decimal conversions in final.rto
• Have removed all differential locking
• Have slowed the shifting time by a factor of 2 to simulate the relatively long throw and slower syncromeshes.
• Have lowered the suggested shift point as nobody revs a standard Fulvia above 7000rpm!
• Have corrected the tyre width and radii, and might look at the rest of the tyre model eventually as the tyres seem a bit too stiff and responsive.
• Have guessed at much better anti-roll rates for the time being (the real cars have 16mm front anti-roll bars and 14mm rear anti-roll bars, but I haven't worked out motion ratios or their geometry into wheel rates yet.
• Have tweaked front suspension a tiny bit to give caster and KPI nearer Lancia's figures, but would like to measure pick up points properly.
• Have changed static front camber to reflect real standard value.
• Have increased front damping rates, particularly front bump) to get closer to what I think Lancia would have used (via my own hand calcs) [when I say my own hand calcs, I actually mean the hand calcs of a race engineer that used to work for me]
• Have changed all values of rear suspension geometry (X,Y,Z) with the caveat in opening paragraph, based on quick-and-dirty measurements with a tape measure and judging by eye. Would like to return to that when time (and a conveniently placed car in the workshop) permits.
• Tried tweaking the brake bias, but found that the static value would be wrong because of the pressure compensator on the rear axle, so stuck with 67%
• Have tweaked the setup.ini to accomodate the parameters changed a bit.

All a bit rough round the edges, and still a touch too much oversteer, but vastly improved already.

I shall not be sharing these with anyone other than the original content creators, including privately or via private message, so please don't feel threatened or wronged any more than you have to. My aim is to assist the creators to recreate the Fulvia at it's best.

I'll be in touch with them and remind them to check this post. thanks!!

PS: Wow, you're the F3 driver that helped RSR , right?

 

[tristancliffe]

I am, but I definitely don't deserve a wow! Andrea and his team did most of the work, I just provided measurements and feedback really, although I have continued to develop RSR's car at home with new tyres and the aero/mechanical model of slightly newer F3 cars.

 

[AccAkut]

@tristancliffe guess you're better of writing Sanchez a PM, that way he will get an email (he's not overly active on these forums anymore)

 

[RSanchezPaz]

@tristancliffe guess you're better of writing Sanchez a PM, that way he will get an email (he's not overly active on these forums anymore)

Tnx AccAkut, u are right, btw mr. Ratafia toldme to watch the thread again.

@tristancliffe Tnx for your, concern, we really appreciate how serius u went into our work. The physics itself have some "licence's" mostly in the tyre model and fuel capacity in order to keep the BOP against the Alfa Romeo GTA wich is the reason why i chose this car in first place. If there were no Alfa GTA would never be a Lancia Fulvia mod. That being said, some of the "licence's" we took can be referred to this and also keep in mind we did a non std version, we did a track car version instead.
Anyway we are aware that many things could be improved and we are proud to read that u got this deep into our work.
Please make your physics version and send it to @Leonardo Ratafiá to make some testing specially about the BOP against GTA, not because we doubt about your knowdlage, just because in this particular mod, the BOP is part of it soul.
Tnx again for your passion and your attention to our work.

Regards. Rodrigo.

 

[tristancliffe]

I'm still working on it. Still struggling to get rid of the oversteer (real Fulvia's don't oversteer on trailing throttle nearly as much).

Appreciate the desire to make it as fast as the Alfa, although the Alfa is a faster 2.0 litre car, but it should be possible to make a version that is artificially fast if you want. I'm more interested in the handling being about right - and as I've never driven a GTA in real life I can't use that as a guide.

Bumpstops and Packers have got me sweating at the moment, and the lack of toe in on AC's axle simulation.

 

[tristancliffe]

Sort of made some progress with this, but it's still far too oversteery. Part of the problem is that Assetto Corsa's axle simulation can't seem to do toe-in (and a Fulvia has 1.5mm per wheel toe-in), so parallel is really quite unstable.
I'm considering ditching "accuracy" for "decent dynamics", and trying to make a double wishbone rear that can have toe in, but I need to think about wishbone lengths and stuff to get a similar dynamic camber and suspension movement to a beam axle/leaf spring arrangement. Unless someone knows how to get [axle] and toe-in working...

I drove the GTA in AC the other evening, with a friend that has driven a real one - it's a GHASTLY simulation. No car handles like that, and considering much of the Fulvia's physics were copy-pasted from that its not hard to see why the Fulvia was so bad (I can't understand how it got so many 5 star reviews - sorry).

Reducing (numerically) the load transfer sensitivity has helped mitigate some of the toe-out oversteer, but it's not right yet. I'm not happy with it.

The 3D model does look gorgeous though, and I won't give up until I've got this handling like a real car!

Any idea how to get rid of the silly brake squeal?

 

[RSanchezPaz]

Hello man, The Fulvia Physics has been made from scratch. No copy / paste here - sorry. We have made tons of testing, even with community help back in the day (u can see it the BOP testing in the official forum thread). The rear dead axle is fair enought accurate, it behave's like it should in a mid tuned Fulvia. The rear inner wheel lift is very common on the real Fulvias with summer tires (ofc depending on each car single Fulvia setup) and this one does the same thing when you turn off throttle with the base setup. This can be even more noticiable with slick tyres like Fulvia S1 have.

example:

The car also does it brand new and completly stock if u push it hard enought.

example:

Or can be very very noticiable if you are over the crub pushing it with no mercy with slicks.

example:

Hope it helps in your research and give you annother pov about AC live/dead axle simulation even with it limitations.

 

[tristancliffe]

It's not the wheel lifting, I can do that in a standard car too. Don't forget I drive Fulvias in various states of tune every week for twenty years now on road and track, and we've raced them (I never raced the Fulvia, I only raced the F3 cars) a bit too. I was at Goodwood driving our race 1300 S1.5 yesterday, and none of the Fulvias had to use opposite lock all day (okay, I can't say that definitively, but I'd put money on it!).

When I compared the GTA ini files to the Fulvia, the majority of lines were identical, occasionally with a little tweak (so a value of 0.019647282 in the GTA might be rounded to 0.02 in the Fulvia).

But the oversteer is WRONG WRONG WRONG WRONG. The rear might go light, but even with a wheel in the air (100% lateral load transfer on the axle) it should almost never require opposite lock except during very hard trail braking. Lifting - no, it should merely tighten the line and not try to spin. Have you driven a 1600 HF?

The toe in will be a major change. But to do that I will have to experiment ditching the axle simulation and faking it with wishbones. Not ideal, but no point having a crap car with a realistic axle choice when we could have a realistic car with the wrong suspension in the background.

I'm going to measure wheel and roll rates as soon as I have a suitable time in the workshop. I may be able to do with for a standard car and for some track prepared cars. Corner weight scales, lots of people, a height gauge and an inclinometer ought to get some sensible numbers, and not a rear roll bar with 450N/m rate - ha ha ha.

Only once it behaves like a real car will I consider increasing the performance to match the laptime of the equally poor Kunos GTA, although quite why anyone would want a car made unrealistic on purpose is a bit beyond me. But that can be done with S1, S2 versions easily enough.

Sorry if it sounds disrespectful, but clearly the community that helped and the community that reviewed don't know what a car like this should handle like.

I could also record some interior and exterior sounds if you want, so that we get it sounding like a little V4? Admittedly they'd only be GoPro or iPhone standard recordings, but better than nothing perhaps.

 

[tristancliffe]

There is a video in the AC forum from 2016 showing a lot less oversteer and no silly brake squeal, so perhaps something has changed in the mod or in AC since then thats made it so bad.

The 3D model is beautiful though. I have to be really picky to find fault - the wheels are perhaps a little bit too much like a 2000HF, and it's missing a channel in the inner sill for the original wiring loom, and the Fulvia script on the dash is a little bit too big, but that's being REALLY picky. Basically, I can't reasonably fault the 3D model or most of the sounds, and it might be that it handled sensibly two years ago.

 

[Leonardo Ratafiá]

There is a video in the AC forum from 2016 showing a lot less oversteer and no silly brake squeal, so perhaps something has changed in the mod or in AC since then thats made it so bad.

The 3D model is beautiful though. I have to be really picky to find fault - the wheels are perhaps a little bit too much like a 2000HF, and it's missing a channel in the inner sill for the original wiring loom, and the Fulvia script on the dash is a little bit too big, but that's being REALLY picky. Basically, I can't reasonably fault the 3D model or most of the sounds, and it might be that it handled sensibly two years ago.

The brake sqeal is because at the moment is using a kunos sound iirc the 918 60s but you can remove the brakind sound from the guid.txt.

I hope you can make it drive as the real one and as you said, you an always have an S1, S2 etc that drives similar to the gta or the Ford rs 1600, whatever you want

Thanks for your time, maybe you can drive the previous version to see if it handled better, maybe with the addition of the rear axle it change its behavior.
The problem of the sound or even recording new one is that the are no sound modders available to do it properly. Unless they suddenly appear, it would be really an Easter miracle