iRacing Review

[OverTake.gg]

Bram Hengeveld submitted a new blog post:

iRacing Review

More than five years after its initial release, I feel it’s finally time to give iRacing the professional review treatment. Five years is more than enough time for one game to sort out all of its issues, the game costs several times more than your traditional boxed PC game available on the shelves at Best Buy, and deciding whether to take the plunge based on biased forum ramblings is never a good idea. Six hundred million laps later, it’s time to finally take a look at iRacing, and determine...

Continue reading the Original Blog Post

 

[Niel Hekkens]

Yeah the tire model isn't perfect. We know this now. People don't have to go on and on and on and on about it. If you don't like it, don't play and care about it. Simple.
For example, I think R3E is pretty bad but I don't whine over there about their physics and about the tracks.

 

[Antonio Crinò]

I have driven real cars on real tracks and the difference is simply too much. All these guys who think the physics is that great need to go on a real track and see how things are in reality, but then again people are spending so much money on iracing that they have little left to go on track ... or perhaps they simply like the safe world of the PC where you can spin like an idiot and still believe it's like reality.

I mean... Seriously? That is amazing...

Do you know the story of the life of everyone who says iR is good? Or because you don't like the iR physics, everyone who disagree with you have never driven a car on track?

Yeah the tire model isn't perfect. We know this now. People don't have to go on and on and on and on about. If you don't like it, don't play and care about it. Simple.
For example, I think R3E is pretty bad but I don't whine over there about their physics and about the tracks.

This.

 

[paulnunes]

I mean... Seriously? That is amazing...

Do you know the story of the life of everyone who says iR is good? Or because you don't like the iR physics, everyone who disagree with you have never driven a car on track?



This.

What, I am saying is that in , my opinion, there is a disconnect between IRacing and reality and it's a major disconnect not a little one. People who go on track and say iracing is real are lying to themselves. I believe that they want desperately to believe that the game is as good as their track experience because we all want a sim that does that. This thread is about the original review which correctly points out that the game has a major issue for road racing, What I believe is that the issues with Iracing being unrealistic are quite complex, and deal not only with tires, physics, force feeback and hardware issues, but also the FOV. Hope Iracing guys can made the program work out, but I think they need to realize perhaps that they need help and that there is a serious issue. Arrogance will not solve the problem.

 

[Niel Hekkens]

In what game if FOV 'good'? When I tried GTR2 the other day it felt like I was sitting in the backseat.
Racing on a PC it's like this:

What you see on your monitor should be in the box.

By the way, I've have driven at Zolder at real life and I must say, the track was spot on. I have never driven on a track before but it felt very familiar. Everything in iRacing was the same as in real life. Pretty awesome to experience. The only thing missing in iRacing is the G forces.
How do you explain this?

I'll stop posting here on RD. It's all about 'iRacing is bad' here. What a pity.

 

[paulnunes]

In what game if FOV 'good'? When I tried GTR2 the other day it felt like I was sitting in the backseat.
Racing on a PC it's like this:

What you see on your monitor should be in the box.

By the way, I've have driven at Zolder at real life and I must say, the track was spot on. I have never driven on a track before but it felt very familiar. Everything in iRacing was the same as in real life. Pretty awesome to experience. The only thing missing in iRacing is the G forces.
How do you explain this?

I'll stop posting here on RD. It's all about 'iRacing is bad' here. What a pity.

The sim should give you a "realistic" sense of speed regardless of your FOV, because at the end of the day you are not in a real car but behind a screen. That is the trick and without a good sense of speed you will likely always spin off regardless of the sim. You shouldn't need three monitors to get things right or be staring at the rectangle you correctly drew. Niel, only by being objective and making good constructive ( but perhaps negative) comments can we really change the world. A yes man, will not make changes happen in this case. I want Iracing to work out for me and many others who see the obvious shortcoming and in the end iracing will benefit greatly ... again in my opinion

 

[William Levesque]

Sense of Speed is only FOV. Nothing else, you can't have that in any other way.

 

[Niel Hekkens]

You shouldn't need three monitors to get things right or be staring at the rectangle you correctly drew.

This 'problem' is not iRacing only related. Please show me a sim, any sim, that let me experience my real life FOV on a 24" screen without dumb camera shaking (not realistic) and blur. It's not possible without 3 screens or Oculus Rift. Yes I race with 1 screen.

Also there is a difference between saying: "this sucks, that is bad" and "This can be better and you can improve this do by doing that.."


Apparently iRacing IS working for a lot of people, otherwise they wouldn't play it.

 

[Matej Lakota]

I don`t really care about minor game problems or how realistic or unrealistic it is. I don`t drive SP, so I care just about MP and because other racing games servers, also here on RD, are empty almost all the time, for me iR is choice number one at this moment. I have high expectations about AC, but if that sad trend of empty multiplayer will continue also with this game, I have no other alternative and I will take iRacing as it is for a long time.

 

[Bjorn de Haas]

I agree with Matej, Im considering in jumping back to competitive simracing and the only place were we have good grids is iracing. The rest seems to be having little grids, even rfactor 2 in its current state which is very good i would say.

 

[Bakkster]

This 'problem' is not iRacing only related. Please show me a sim, any sim, that let me experience my real life FOV on a 24" screen without dumb camera shaking (not realistic) and blur. It's not possible without 3 screens or Oculus Rift. Yes I race with 1 screen.

Well, paulnunes didn't specify the sense of speed had to lack camera shake or blur. I think it's likely this is the reason he doesn't like the sense of speed in iRacing, he seems to be expecting it.

It isn't my cup of tea, but that doesn't mean he can't have a different preference on presentation.

 

[paulnunes]

Well, paulnunes didn't specify the sense of speed had to lack camera shake or blur. I think it's likely this is the reason he doesn't like the sense of speed in iRacing, he seems to be expecting it.

It isn't my cup of tea, but that doesn't mean he can't have a different preference on presentation.

I don't care much about camera shake or blur. What I need is to have a good sense of speed with any selected FOV. In a real car it doesn't matter whether your seat is set forward or back or if you are in the rear seat; you will sense speed properly. In a real car on track you always know when you are going too fast 99% of the time .... and when I mean a real car you should be driving something with 300hp, sports suspension, good rubber and excellent brakes not to embarrass yourself too much when a corvette z01 or 911Gt3 blows by you .... and by the way those guys won't be spinning like mad as many times happens on iracing. Having said this, one of my instructors gave me a ride on a Lotus Elise (170hp) at Watkins Glen equipped with racing seats, R rated rubber, race brakes and that was one hell of a ride (forget roller-coasters ... no comparison) ... no spinning or sliding there and he was passing some guys with M3s, and 911s !! I wander why iracing just doesn't increase the coefficient of friction somewhat to resolve the issue until they get it right? They could do that on a car by car basis. I did drive a Mustang Gt on real track and it was a wonderful car. I was shocked when I tried it on iracing ... total waste of money for that one

 

[Bakkster]

I wander why iracing just doesn't increase the coefficient of friction somewhat to resolve the issue until they get it right? They could do that on a car by car basis. I did drive a Mustang Gt on real track and it was a wonderful car. I was shocked when I tried it on iracing ... total waste of money for that one

Well, they've been down that path before. The OTM had too much grip at speed, so they reduced it to keep race pace correct. Unfortunately that led to the issues with too little grip while spinning and on the grass or curbs.

I don't think upping grip overall is a solution. Peak grip seems to be pretty good, it's what happens in transient and past the peak where we have problems. You increase peak grip and you probably end up making it worse, the cars being too fast and the grip fall off past the peak being even harsher.

Did you drive the FR500S at Miller? Don't forget the Mustang in iRacing is 3600lbs and on narrow DOT-spec tires as well as not on the latest tire revision.

 

[paulnunes]

I see your point on the friction aspect.

I didn't try the iracing mustang lately. I was too disappointed when i first tried it and gave up on it. I'll give it another try. The mustang I drove on track had pretty wide tires.

BTW I was driving the hpd and the dallara at Laguna yesterday and found them quite enjoyable and with reasonable grip. Not sure if changes have been made over last few days. The corvette was still pretty much undrivable from my perspective. Have single 24" monitor with Fanatec wheel and pedals. I have set fov to 60% and am now using my trackir. One thing I find is that iracing seems to depend too much on hardware setup ( wheels, pedals). I think program needs to be less dependent on these things or at least recognize the hardware you have if it's pretty standard stuff.

 

[Bakkster]

Yeah, the Mustang is easily the most under-tyred car in the game. I believe it's on essentially the same size tires as the Miata (BFG R1s 245/40R-18 to be specific), but weighs half a ton more, makes double the HP, and has a live rear axle. It also develops lift at speed! It's a fun car to drive, but very tricky to get a handle on at first. It takes very slow, deliberate movements, and the seating being so high up it feels like you're going slowly (same effect as when you drive a minivan after driving a low roadster).

If you don't mind my asking, what kind of Mustang did you get to drive?

The HPD is definitely much more stable, as is the Radical. They've done a lot with how they feed data to the tire model across all cars, which seems to have made the most improvement of all. Definitely moving in the right direction.

I agree, it's very setup intensive if you want it to feel safe and competitive. If you look at some of the data, it seems even when two users have identical models of wheel, they still react differently, it can be as simple as manufacturing tolerances and how well oiled your hardware is. It makes finding a single default setting very difficult, though I agree that better initial guesses would improve things for everyone, while the power users can then tweak afterwards. That initial impression is too important to leave it up to chance.

 

[paulnunes]

Yeah, the Mustang is easily the most under-tyred car in the game. I believe it's on essentially the same size tires as the Miata (BFG R1s 245/40R-18 to be specific), but weighs half a ton more, makes double the HP, and has a live rear axle. It also develops lift at speed! It's a fun car to drive, but very tricky to get a handle on at first. It takes very slow, deliberate movements, and the seating being so high up it feels like you're going slowly (same effect as when you drive a minivan after driving a low roadster).

If you don't mind my asking, what kind of Mustang did you get to drive?

The HPD is definitely much more stable, as is the Radical. They've done a lot with how they feed data to the tire model across all cars, which seems to have made the most improvement of all. Definitely moving in the right direction.

I agree, it's very setup intensive if you want it to feel safe and competitive. If you look at some of the data, it seems even when two users have identical models of wheel, they still react differently, it can be as simple as manufacturing tolerances and how well oiled your hardware is. It makes finding a single default setting very difficult, though I agree that better initial guesses would improve things for everyone, while the power users can then tweak afterwards. That initial impression is too important to leave it up to chance.

Thanks for good input Bakkster, You have good points and seem very experience with Iracing.

The mustang I drove was from the following academy. I also drove their formula car. The mustang had 350hp and roll cage and interior removed.

http://www.circuiticar.com/academie.html

Both cars were pretty stable and I always had an excellent sense of my speed and where my personal limits were. Something I seem to be missing with most iracing cars. Yes, there was some "controlled" sliding and I do admit I spun (90 degree) the formula car once, but no wild rides.

This is an helpful review on the Mustang just to show you how good it is

http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests...ang_gt_vs_2011_bmw_m3_comparison/viewall.html

 

[Bakkster]

Gotcha.

The long and short of it is the Mustang still needs work. It isn't on the latest tyre model and it shows. Give the Skippy a try. Hopefully soon the Mustang feels as good as that.

 

[paulnunes]

Gotcha.

The long and short of it is the Mustang still needs work. It isn't on the latest tyre model and it shows. Give the Skippy a try. Hopefully soon the Mustang feels as good as that.

Tried the Skippy ... much better than before and closer to my experiences on track with that kind of car. Fantastic!

 

[DewCrew88]

I don't think upping grip overall is a solution.

You're right, because it's not that simple. iRacing has too little grip and too much grip at the same time.

Too little lateral grip in many situations, for example try driving one of the stock cars on a road course. Or how about the Truck at Chicago last week.They drive like they are simulating 1000hp or they have a broken rear rear trackbar mount. These are the words of Dakota Armstrong in a hosted session. He would know.

In other situations there is way too much cornering grip, like continuing to do 180mph in the middle of the corner at Atlanta in the Nationwide Car with race trim. In real life they are hardly capable of 165 in qualifying trim

Add on that every other sim has managed to make the cars feel like they weigh like a 2500-3500lb vehicle. iRacing still feels like playing a hovercraft.

I dont know what to say anymore. I have no interest in trying anymore, I play rF2 with some buddies and mess around with ARMA or Red Orchestra. I can hardly stand to play it for more than once a week.

They seem to have been onto something with the Skippy but it still feels way to akward and iRacing like after you get used to it.

 

[Bakkster]

You're right, because it's not that simple. iRacing has too little grip and too much grip at the same time.

Exactly, and from what I've read a lot of it has to do with the sidewalls.

I dont know what to say anymore. I have no interest in trying anymore, I play rF2 with some buddies and mess around with ARMA or Red Orchestra. I can hardly stand to play it for more than once a week.

Yeah, I wouldn't suggest trying it more than once a build if you know it's not working for you. And even then, only if you're hearing a big update to the tires.

Also, make sure you're getting heat into the tires and your setup is coming up to proper pressure. I know I still find myself having to remember not to attack on my first few laps like I used to, now that the tires are a bit more squirrely when cold.

 

[DewCrew88]

It's none of that. It's an overall package that's seemingly beyond repair.