Heusinkveld sprint rumble pedal mod

[RedBull48]

Hello all,

I have recently upgraded my rig from Fanatec V3 pedals to the wonderful Heusinkveld sprints. I must say I am extremely happy with the upgrade, the only feature that I found myself missing was the integrated rumble motors that were included on the V3 pedal and brake. I was a huge fan of this functionality for detecting brake lockups and wheel slip. I then recalled seeing AMstudio (youtube channel dedicated to sim racing mods) create a rumble mod for a set of G920 pedals. I figured this same technique could be used for my new HE pedals. I have just finished setting everything up and I am extremely happy with how it turned out. I figured I would share my experience with the community for anyone interested in doing the same.

Credit: AMstudio (I highly recommend checking out his channel if you have not heard of him. Plenty of great ideas!)
Video where I got the idea: G920 Rumble Pedals

I have recently started working with Fusion360 to make small one off part mods for my sim rig. This was my first venture into making an entire project box and all related mounting hardware for this project. I ended up using the following hardware / software.

- 2 x xbox 360 rumble motors (Removed from old controllers I had).
- 22awg wire of various color for easy identification.
- 1 x Arduino UNO R3.
- 1 x Arduino motor shield v2.
- DC Power Female Socket with Lock Washer.
- 12v AC power cable.
- Soldering iron.
- Various lengths and sizes of heat shrink.
- Heat gun.
- USB A cable.

After I had everything wired and mounted to my satisfaction I used the built in Arduino tool within Simhub to write a sketch. I then proceed to setup the same shakeit profile that I had used previously with my Fanatec V3's. So far everything is working great. Curious to see if anyone has completed a similar mod, previously I had seen use of speakers to achieve what I assume is a similar response. I decided to go this route however as I had a lot of the hardware and all said and done cost me about $50/usd. Thanks for any feedback! Please keep in mind this is my first full 3d model / print implementation so I understand it's not perfect .

 

[stigs2cousin]

Carsten, do you find it helps the immersion? I would like something that blends in with the rest so that I would miss it if it wasnt there.

If it helps me improve then better. I remember when I was in a league and we were racing something (forget what) and there was a particular corner or two that had me locking often. for the first time I added an effect to tell me I was locking and it worked really well, I could immediately back off the brake a bit but I really didnt like the feeling of the effect. It felt really out of place and was just a 'cue' in the end. it didnt feel natural. I think coming through my foot it would feel more in place.

i´m not after improved immersion but performance.
( I need all the help i can get)

And yes, wheel slip and wheel lock in the pedals feels natural for me.
I´m not there yet, but it´s showing promise.

MFG Carsten

Edith says:

just did another training session on the track of the week.
It´s definitely easyer to find the right brake pressure fast when the pedal gives feedback as it does in real life.
Also a cue for rear wheelspin before the rear steps out is immensely helpfull.
The audio cues for these two situations are not bad on Asseto Corsa, but the tactile feedback makes things easyer.

So yes, it helps going quicker

 

[Alex Townsend]

You’re welcome.

Just checked, motors are 25mm.

Someone above mentioned removing the P clip inner piece, this might mean you need smaller p clips. Not sure how they are measured.

Will be off to the hardware store shortly then. Online the clips only go up to maximum size of 19mm
Then again, perhaps I order the rest of the kit and then can look for suitable motor clamps that will fit or can be made to fit.
Another question, sorry, what is the container that the Arduino and the motor shield fit into called?
I can only find a clear box for just the Arduino so another option would be great for the extra height of both the items sandwiched together of possible.

 

[blekenbleu]

"custom effects" for load and slip.

For traction loss, I suppose that some additional "steering logic" is wanted to sort front slip from rear.
For example, my current implementation can show moderately loaded slip simultaneously
both front and rear, e.g. when cornering and both loaded wheels are slipping.
To my way of thinking, traction loss should exclude the less loaded end.
On the other hand, if depending on wheel base FFB for front tire grip,
then current implementation for rear loaded slip may be OK.

At the same time, brake pedal tactile IMO should start with a light tone at wheel rpm,
simulating slight disk runout that attenuates as brakes fully engage,
with barely perceptible road vibration that attenuates as brakes near lockup.

 

[Mr Latte]

You work on the operation of the effect to suit, telling us what it should/represent and I can assure you we can come up with variations of feel. The alternative is to offer "load based" and "slip based" effects to then apply to these their own frequencies/generated sensations which the user can then define with whatever amplitude they want but create their own mix, rather than both load/slip being implemented into a single custom effect.

 

[blekenbleu]

The alternative is to offer "load based" and "slip based" effects

I suppose that SimHub-provided Wheels slip are similar to mine,
but I can verify that..
A 4-corner wheel load effect can easily be provided
but I believe it is the product, not sum, of load and slip that matters.
If one applies gamma 3.3 to load and slip (that approximates logarithm),
then adding approximates multiplication.

 

[RedBull48]

Another question, sorry, what is the container that the Arduino and the motor shield fit into called?
I can only find a clear box for just the Arduino so another option would be great for the extra height of both the items sandwiched together of possible.

I ended up modeling the box for the equipment in Fusion 360 and printing them on my ender 3. If a 3d printer is not an option for you I believe what you would be looking for is often referred to as a electronic project box. I can send you some rough dimensions that should get you started.

 

[Alex Townsend]

I ended up modeling the box for the equipment in Fusion 360 and printing them on my ender 3. If a 3d printer is not an option for you I believe what you would be looking for is often referred to as a electronic project box. I can send you some rough dimensions that should get you started.

That would be greatly appreciated. Thank you so much.
I'm literally ordering the parts this weekend. Will then pop to the hardware store to see what pipe clamps will fit these motors once they arrive.
Looking forward to this new project.

 

[CRMS]

So would Fanatec V3 pedals be improved by replacing the motors with Dayton exciters eg DAEX25CT-4, DAEX32EP-4 or DAEX32Q-4, or even just the Xbox rumble motors??
As I am in EU for another couple of weeks, seems sensible to get some bits from soundimports.eu while I am here.

 

[asteroulis]

So would Fanatec V3 pedals be improved by replacing the motors with Dayton exciters eg DAEX25CT-4, DAEX32EP-4 or DAEX32Q-4, or even just the Xbox rumble motors??
As I am in EU for another couple of weeks, seems sensible to get some bits from soundimports.eu while I am here.

Yes , installing exciters will increase performance and immersion. BUT it's not a direct replacement. One is a motor , the other is a speaker. So you need a kind of usb amp to drive them.

 

[stigs2cousin]

Gamermuscle did something like that with low investment.

( I will NOT recommend this kind of amplifier, you have to find out on your own.
But small amps from reputable manufacturers are not so much more expensive.)

I used the Dayton exciters DAEX32EP-4 with homemade brackets and a AV Receiver I had standing around.
If you go for just the pedals almost every home audio amp will do.

MFG Carsten

 

[RedBull48]

That would be greatly appreciated. Thank you so much.
I'm literally ordering the parts this weekend. Will then pop to the hardware store to see what pipe clamps will fit these motors once they arrive.
Looking forward to this new project.

The dimensions I used are as follows.
Length - 88.5 mm
Width - 72.30 mm
Height - 35 mm
15mm tab on each end to mount to my profile

 

[TedBrosby-]

I doubt it has any effect, unless the motors are so strong that your feet start shaking on the pedals.

From an engineering perspective, this has to be the true position on this issue.
The hall sensors on the throttle for HE Sprints is distance based on the lever arm of the pedal itself. Unless the vibration motors cause the pedal arm itself to tremble, you won't notice a drop in throttle response.

For brake I feel like unless your load setting is really low (Like less than 20kg), you wouldn't notice a difference because at a high load setting, there's no way some tiny Xbox vibration motor will cause your foot to exert less pressure (unless you voluntarily press less when you detect the vibration).

 

[Deleted member 197115]

From an engineering perspective, this has to be the true position on this issue.
The hall sensors on the throttle for HE Sprints is distance based on the lever arm of the pedal itself. Unless the vibration motors cause the pedal arm itself to tremble, you won't notice a drop in throttle response.

For brake I feel like unless your load setting is really low (Like less than 20kg), you wouldn't notice a difference because at a high load setting, there's no way some tiny Xbox vibration motor will cause your foot to exert less pressure (unless you voluntarily press less when you detect the vibration).

HE pedals are using load cells on all inputs.
Can't speak on rumble motors effects except RedBull48 tests posted here, but transducers under pedal plate cause some serious shudder resulting in quite erratic jumpy readings when foot is on the pedal.
Do you have transducers or rumble motors on pedals to test?

 

[Mr Latte]

Surely motion rigs can cause even greater energy in vibrations?
"Readings" okay, lets have "Readings" or tests from motion owners.
Such readings are only important if they create noticeable operational drawbacks of the user's hardware in usage.

I have seen rigs with d-Box and dual large BK on the L/R pedals, yet the owner never once report of problems with their high-end pedals, regards inputs or dropouts. So to make this an issue, first, it has to be an issue, right?


Note, if the OP wants discussion of tactile options removed, then I have no problem deleting my own posts making reference to tactile alternatives. For a long time, I wanted discussion and tests with both options being presented for their own PROS and CONS.

For tactile, if anyone was to follow the guidance given on these forums, then if reverberations from a particular installed transducer were generating bad/unwanted judder or indeed hum/noise. Then it would be wise to determine what frequencies were causing the issue.

As once we determine what these are, (could vary on installation materials) then this is one of the benefits of DSP to lower the amplitude of these "culprit" frequencies with specific PEQ equalisation.

You won't be doing that level of tweaking/tuning on a motor solution though.

.
Gamermuscle (eejit) has the top of the case for the unit clamped to the pedal making the contact. Which would not be the most effective way to install such. The internals of the exciter/transducer is meant to be suspended, to move up/down like a speaker cone. He has it constantly pressed under load.

A plate or surface attached to the pedal stem with the unit face down should perform better. Potentially using 3-5mm aluminum plate that is easy to bend or shape. Such could also act as a "mechanical amplifier" with some degree of leverage.

Example, shown to illustrate a curved seat :


The Dayton Puck that he used, even has its own (additional mounting ring) but the Puck (although most known/widely used) is not the best option, being larger, less wattage and with less performance.


I compared those 3 models in 2019. Some characteristics of differences in their abilities but DEX32EP-4 known as (Thruster) model with its 40w and more robust casing in my view was the better choice for direct mounting of tactile to seats or pedals.

DAEX32U did have a better lower bass response (@30Hz - 40Hz) and is the smallest of all three but limited to 20W. It also was not just as good with the detailing with (@100Hz-150Hz) that can give better output with harmonics which can add more body/character to felt sensations. Do not be fooled that because of their size they cant offer much output, they will surprise anyone with what they can offer.



Also, don't forget you can have seat tactile work with pedal tactile to extend slip/load or brake-lock scenarios.

Currently, elsewhere on these forums, quite a bit of effort is going into looking and better understanding Simhubs controls and potential with slip/load effects to be used as a driving aid and of course bring more immersion too.

Example of digging deeper: Realtime Monitoring Simhub Output
Mono / 4 In 1 / & 4 Wheel activity

Comparing standard and custom-created user effects.


With tactile we have the potential to design an effect to operate more to how we want it to feel, achieve greater detail, much more energy too using the full bass range.

Yet to do this properly or to a high working standard would require more effort than a motor solution. So each will appeal perhaps to different people.

 

[CRMS]

>So you need a kind of usb amp to drive them....

Interesting video and I currently have 4 DA TT25 pucks and 2 stereo amps and a 5 ch sound card which I was going to use in the seat squab.
Thinking of re arranging to include exciters on V3 pedals.
Would there be any useful mileage in trying to separate brake and throttle pedal vibration, using SimHub??

 

[stigs2cousin]

Would there be any useful mileage in trying to separate brake and throttle pedal vibration, using SimHub??

I´m doing just that in the moment, with two DAEX32EP-4 mounted to accelerator and brake pedal with aluminium stripes.
Accelerator vibrates when rear wheelspin climbs over the threshold, same with brakepedal for combined wheelslip/wheellock.

Software is Simhub.

I´m now at the point where it´s "good enough"
Probably there is more/better/finer feedback to be had, but i´d think that too much tinkering for diminishing gains.

But I want to drive, so i´m doing just that and am content with the achieved.

Disclaimer:
i´ve been doing that for about a week and I´m only driving the skippy right now.
So this is by no means a comprehensive experience on the matter.

Final thoughts: do it, try it out. It will probably help your driving!

MFG Carsten

 

[Mr Latte]

I´m doing just that in the moment, with two DAEX32EP-4 mounted to accelerator and brake pedal with aluminium stripes.
Accelerator vibrates when rear wheelspin climbs over the threshold, same with brakepedal for combined wheelslip/wheellock.

Software is Simhub.

I´m now at the point where it´s "good enough"
Probably there is more/better/finer feedback to be had, but i´d think that too much tinkering for diminishing gains.

But I want to drive, so i´m doing just that and am content with the achieved.

Disclaimer:
i´ve been doing that for about a week and I´m only driving the skippy right now.
So this is by no means a comprehensive experience on the matter.

Final thoughts: do it, try it out. It will probably help your driving!

MFG Carsten

Would you mind sharing the effect you use

 

[stigs2cousin]

Just some generic Simhub effects.

It´s "good enough" for me as my focus is on driving, I´d like to keep it as simple as possible.
(KISS principle, more complexity is more failure possibilty)

I already hat one of the ( very second hand) amps cut out on me, it disturbed and distracted me during a race. So probably i´ll go for new one eventually.

Here you go:

MFG Carsten

 

[blekenbleu]

It´s "good enough" for me

Sad that DAEX32EP-4 is effectively out of stock in the U.S. until mid-May.

 

[Tom_Hampton]

Sad that DAEX32EP-4 is effectively out of stock in the U.S. until mid-May.

Amazon has stock....

Amazon.com: Dayton Audio DAEX32EP-4 Thruster 32mm Exciter 40W 4 Ohm : Electronics

Amazon.com: Dayton Audio DAEX32EP-4 Thruster 32mm Exciter 40W 4 Ohm : Electronics

www.amazon.com