Heusinkveld sprint rumble pedal mod

[RedBull48]

Hello all,

I have recently upgraded my rig from Fanatec V3 pedals to the wonderful Heusinkveld sprints. I must say I am extremely happy with the upgrade, the only feature that I found myself missing was the integrated rumble motors that were included on the V3 pedal and brake. I was a huge fan of this functionality for detecting brake lockups and wheel slip. I then recalled seeing AMstudio (youtube channel dedicated to sim racing mods) create a rumble mod for a set of G920 pedals. I figured this same technique could be used for my new HE pedals. I have just finished setting everything up and I am extremely happy with how it turned out. I figured I would share my experience with the community for anyone interested in doing the same.

Credit: AMstudio (I highly recommend checking out his channel if you have not heard of him. Plenty of great ideas!)
Video where I got the idea: G920 Rumble Pedals

I have recently started working with Fusion360 to make small one off part mods for my sim rig. This was my first venture into making an entire project box and all related mounting hardware for this project. I ended up using the following hardware / software.

- 2 x xbox 360 rumble motors (Removed from old controllers I had).
- 22awg wire of various color for easy identification.
- 1 x Arduino UNO R3.
- 1 x Arduino motor shield v2.
- DC Power Female Socket with Lock Washer.
- 12v AC power cable.
- Soldering iron.
- Various lengths and sizes of heat shrink.
- Heat gun.
- USB A cable.

After I had everything wired and mounted to my satisfaction I used the built in Arduino tool within Simhub to write a sketch. I then proceed to setup the same shakeit profile that I had used previously with my Fanatec V3's. So far everything is working great. Curious to see if anyone has completed a similar mod, previously I had seen use of speakers to achieve what I assume is a similar response. I decided to go this route however as I had a lot of the hardware and all said and done cost me about $50/usd. Thanks for any feedback! Please keep in mind this is my first full 3d model / print implementation so I understand it's not perfect .

 

[Mr Latte]

DIView and DXTweak2 are universal, they can read and calibrate any DirectInput device.
DXTweak2 is more modern, DIView may or may not work on Win10.
I am on HE Pro, btw. It is possible that my AuraSound transducers even in non pedals attached configuration have stronger kick, I remember CSP V3 pedals spinners had very little impact (feel) on accel pedal and none on more massive brake pedal.

Issue Or Non Issue?
Software may show some reaction but my question is does the user in a game notice any issues of dropouts or lag. Why would vibrations from D-Box or other "motion" solutions operations then not also be problematic for pedals? But where are people's reports of issues?

The simple reason I mention this is as I have not yet seen someone say they removed tactile from pedals because of it being a major issue.

We have had people using tactile on all types of rigs and different pedals for 10+ years.
The point of adding the tactile can be for immersion but also additional driving aids for slip or lock effects.


Note
Common approaches of adding L/R transducers to pedal sections will easily allow L/R effects to mix.
I am not convinced we need per wheel slip feedback, but more convinced we need to be able to detect the range of slip much better between light/moderate slip and to the point of keeping it below excessive slip. So part of the issue is not just a response that is felt but a response that has a variable felt range the user then gets accustomed too.

The reason "exciters" attached to each pedal was mentioned as an alternative, is to help the user get more direct output for each channel and to reduce (stereo crosstalk). Additionally, the "exciters" can handle from 30Hz up to very fine frequencies beyond 200Hz much much better than commonly bought transducer models. This then gives you more dynamic range in the creation of the effect (via Simhub) than popular budget transducers offer and likely also motors will. So I believe these may help towards achieving more definition and larger felt variation between low-high slip values.

From a technical perspective, nobody to my knowledge has ever shown via microphone what Hz the motors generate to then compare with exciters. I would estimate that the proven exciters will exceed the potential of motors and without lag.

Its getting someone to do a proper comparison and then we apply good operating effects to compare how the motor Vs tactile options pan out?

 

[CRMS]

So would F V3 pedals be improved by replacing the motors with exciters such as the Dayton DAEX25CT-4, or even the Xbox rumble motors??

 

[metalnwood]

A while ago I bought some of the xbox motors and loaded up the arduino and got it going with simhub. In the end I never put them only HE ultimates because of where my rig was a t the time and the wiring effort because of that.
I am sure that if I ever put them on I would think it was na improvement but from a brief test it didnt seem like it was worth the hassle. Largely because the rumble seemed to monotone and therefor felt a bit 'canned' to me.

I did think a couple small things like the transducers would be good but didnt want the costs of the amps. I now have eight channels spare between a couple of rotel rb1050 amps and the old behringer 304 I used to use for something else.

So I am more than keen to try this now, maybe get a few extra to add to my seat while I am at it.

 

[Martijn van Bommel]

Please dont get me wrong ,i have no knowledge what so ever on this topic,but are you guys looking for something like this?
on this site you can get several rumble kits for different kind of pedals.

https://www.sim-3d.co.uk/s/shop

(https://www.sim-3d.co.uk/shop/pedal-rumble-kits/5)

 

[metalnwood]

Yes, thats the kind of thing they are doing with xbox motors. Handy to have a supplier if you are not up to the task of doing the electronics/hardware yourself.

The exciters they are talking about are different and have better potential for effects they can deliver mounted to the pedals.

 

[Enzo Fazzi]

How does rumble affect load cell reading, have you had a chance to check raw pedals reading when rumbling kicks in?

I doubt it has any effect, unless the motors are so strong that your feet start shaking on the pedals.

 

[RedBull48]

I doubt it has any effect, unless the motors are so strong that your feet start shaking on the pedals.

They can pack a surprising punch if you run them at full tilt in simhub but I find it to be a bit over the top. I find running them at 25-40% of capacity gives me all the tactile feedback I am looking for. If anyone really wants the info I suppose I can put them to max and run additional testing.

 

[Deleted member 197115]

I doubt it has any effect, unless the motors are so strong that your feet start shaking on the pedals.

Isn't that the point? In my tests with transducers under the pedals the whole structure vibrates and raw reading jumping all around. Could be a reason Fanatec motors are so weak you can't even feel them unless barefoot.

 

[RedBull48]

Isn't that the point? In my tests with transducers under the pedals the whole structure vibrates and raw reading jumping all around. Could be a reason Fanatec motors are so weak you can't even feel them unless barefoot.

I have downloaded DXtweak to run some additional tests as you have recommended. This is what I found. Please keep in mind these aren't exact figures. As the raw values fluctuate even just trying to keep the same pressure this seemed to be the most accurate I could get. It's worth noting the values fluctuated more at ~50% load perhaps that is expected as less pressure is on the cell.

Brake
raw value 2048 (about 50% on load cell)
Motor output power 25%: variance ~ 10-15
Motor output power 75%: variance ~ 20-30

raw value 4000 (about 98% on load cell, max 4095)
Motor output power 25%: variance ~ 5-10
Motor output power 75%: variance ~ 10

Throttle
raw value 2048 (about 50% on load cell)
Motor output power 25%: variance of ~ 3-8
Motor output power 75%: variance of ~ 20-25

raw value 4000 (about 98% on load cell, max 4095)
Motor output power 25%: variance of ~ <5
Motor output power 75%: variance of ~ 5-10

 

[stigs2cousin]

I concure with @RedBull48`s findings, the exciters definitly "excite" the output signal of both loadcell and potentiometer.

At least for my Frankenstein T3PA pro pedals with homemade loadcell mod based on the Ricmotech 10kg loadcell and a homemade potentiometer leverage DiView shows a variance of the signal when the exciters are triggered.
I couldn´t feel an adverse affect while driving, so at the moment: "not a problem"

Dayton Audio DAEX32EP-4
on aluminium outriggers so the sit above the pedal plate with a short lever arm.
definitely work better on the much heavier brake pedal, on the excelerator the same power leads to a much weaker "signal" ??

Weather it helps my driving is still to be determined.
But it also took same getting used to for the bassschakers in the seat, so I´ll do a lot more driving and report back.

MFG Carsten

 

[Mr Latte]

Isn't that the point? In my tests with transducers under the pedals the whole structure vibrates and raw reading jumping all around. Could be a reason Fanatec motors are so weak you can't even feel them unless barefoot.

Sometime you should show the effect settings you use with what transducers and how you have the pedals isolated? Best to place that in its own thread or in the general tactile discussions.

Technically the tactile option has more potential than these motors, but its going to require more work configuring and be more costly.

With the tactile option, you can have multiple layers work from minimal to medium to max slip. Giving the user clear variation in feel, *(using different frequencies) not just increasing gain levels or even be restricted to the limitations of a single operating effect layer for the felt sensations.

Much of it will be how good the user's effects also operate.

 

[Enzo Fazzi]

Isn't that the point? In my tests with transducers under the pedals the whole structure vibrates and raw reading jumping all around. Could be a reason Fanatec motors are so weak you can't even feel them unless barefoot.

I think it goes beyond tactile feedback at that point. An xbox controller (or any handheld vibrating device ) doesn't shake out of your hands uncontrollably while still giving tactile feedback.

 

[Deleted member 197115]

I think it goes beyond tactile feedback at that point. An xbox controller (or any handheld vibrating device ) doesn't shake out of your hands uncontrollably while still giving tactile feedback.

If you have transducers or rumble motors attached to pedals it does affect reading, same as vibrating controller affects aiming. Is it uncontrollable, no, but you can easily see readings jumping doing simple tests as 3 people in this very thread confirmed already.
It has nothing to do with the pedals in case you are trying to defend the product, this will happen with any other pedal set on the market as well, just the nature of tactile feedback when vibration gets introduced into the system.

 

[Ruttman98]

I concure with @RedBull48`s findings, the exciters definitly "excite" the output signal of both loadcell and potentiometer.

At least for my Frankenstein T3PA pro pedals with homemade loadcell mod based on the Ricmotech 10kg loadcell and a homemade potentiometer leverage DiView shows a variance of the signal when the exciters are triggered.
I couldn´t feel an adverse affect while driving, so at the moment: "not a problem"

Dayton Audio DAEX32EP-4
on aluminium outriggers so the sit above the pedal plate with a short lever arm.
definitely work better on the much heavier brake pedal, on the excelerator the same power leads to a much weaker "signal" ??

Weather it helps my driving is still to be determined.
But it also took same getting used to for the bassschakers in the seat, so I´ll do a lot more driving and report back.

MFG Carsten

Could you please post a photo of your installation? Thank you!

 

[metalnwood]

Silly me, I slept with 4 exciters in my cart and woke up wiith only three as someone else (here? lol) bought the rest of the stock.

It was going to cost me $150usd to get four of them and I dont want to by just two as shipping is the same and I was going to add two on to my seat. So I will have to wait for this experiment to happen.

Personally I am not sure if this will impact too much on the signal.. The variance above was just over one percent while trying to keep the pedal still. We dont try and keep the pedal still while racing and I would imagine there is much more wild variation in our pedal inputs than what will come from the rumble.

I think the only way to really see is to look at captured telemetry and look at the graphs so see if it's even noticable.

 

[stigs2cousin]

Silly me, I slept with 4 exciters in my cart and woke up wiith only three as someone else (here? lol) bought the rest of the stock.

MICHNIX ( It wasn´t me )

MFG Carsten

 

[stigs2cousin]

Could you please post a photo of your installation? Thank you!

Was afraid you would ask.

It looks something like that:
( keep in mind it´s roughly cobbled together with the parts I had at home.
We´re still in lockdown and will be for three more weeks, so supplys are sparse)

MFG Carsten

 

[metalnwood]

Carsten, do you find it helps the immersion? I would like something that blends in with the rest so that I would miss it if it wasnt there.

If it helps me improve then better. I remember when I was in a league and we were racing something (forget what) and there was a particular corner or two that had me locking often. for the first time I added an effect to tell me I was locking and it worked really well, I could immediately back off the brake a bit but I really didnt like the feeling of the effect. It felt really out of place and was just a 'cue' in the end. it didnt feel natural. I think coming through my foot it would feel more in place.

 

[stigs2cousin]

Second drive xperiences:

it´s coming together.

With wheel lock ( front) on the brake pedal and wheel spin (rear) on the excelerator it helps me feel the "Slippy" better. I was surprised how much wheel spin this underpowered canoe has.
These tyres are horrible

I tried two different tracks, one of them the SBD Track we have the dayly races on.
It feels better but isn´t faster yet.

Driving tests continue,

MFG Carsten

 

[Mr Latte]

@blekenbleu is working on "custom effects" for load and slip.
Still some tweaking possibly needed but showing good promise.